Has anyone heard of Copland or Canor? (CSA100, AI 2.10)

[forsty88]

Hello all,
I hope this is the right sub forum for something like this, because the word 'discussion' was missing in the description of this sub forum.

Has anyone here been able to find out anything about the two brands Copland and Canor? In particular, I am interested in the amplifiers Copland CSA100 and Canor AI 2.10. Both are supposed to be hybrid amplifiers, each equipped with a tube preamplifier. I would be interested to know what effect a tube preamplifier can have in such a design. Is there anything noticeable in the sound, or is this more marketing talk to attract tube fans? I've read quite a few tests on the two, and as tests usually are, they do surprisingly well in the price range of 3000€-5000€.

I am currently looking for a replacement for my Hegel H190. At first I had hoped that it would be an all-in-one solution. But even the DAC can't deliver 192khz to Roon, it has to downsample to 105khz. So sooner or later I would have to run an external DAC after all, so I don't need to stay with the Hegel H190 either, because it isn't the promised all-in-one solution. The sound was a bit too clinical for me anyway and I had the feeling that everything sounded a bit separated and there was little harmony and rhythm in complex music tracks. Before I forget, I have a pair of Elac Vela FS 409 as speakers.

So, does anyone know the brands, does anyone know the models, do you have opinions on them or experiences?

Thank you very much!

 

[Manuel]

Canor Audio DAC 2.10

Para quien no conozca la marca, Canor Audio comenzó a principios de los 90 como fabricante de equipos de audio DDM (diseño, desarrollo y fabricación) para empresas como Pro-Ject de Austria y Musical Fidelity del Reino

hifilivemagazine.com

Well, these days I am considering buying this model or the Lampizator Amber 4. I will try the Amber at home soon. I am attaching a review that a friend made at the time. There are very good opinions in general.

 

[Snafu]

I have listened CSA150 at home with Duntech Opal speakers. It is pretty much same as CSA100.

First, it's large but same time beautiful. Knobs and lights are top notch. CSA100 is way smaller.

Sound is as awesome as you can imagine, it is really really something to listen all the day. No fatigue or some kind of need to adjust volume all the time.
I used CSA150's own DAC with Tidal.

+sound, very, very good to my ears
+looks
+absolutely dead silent, no hiss from speakers or buzz from amp it self
+easy to use and works well with other equipment

-manual knob for digital inputs (you get used to it pretty quickly)
-remote is quite sensitive and adjusts sound very quickly (bad if you sit on it...)
-just one XLR-input

imo i could use HDMI input...

Still on top of my list when i'm updating a new amp. I currently have Denafrips Hestia and tube monoblocks. Copland is better in every area of the sound, not by much but difference is there. I have had Copland products previously and i don't have anything bad to say about them or company (CTA402 and CTA301, cd players CDA822 and CDA288). Quality and looks are outstanding.

Pre-amp side has only one 6922-tube, not sure what's the purpose. Amp's sound is nothing like "traditional tube amp", you wouldn't know it's "tube"-integrated.
Imo they could have done with out it...

At some point i'm gonna listen Copland's new CTA407.

Udvikler Landing Page

copland.dk

Udvikler Landing Page

copland.dk

 

[gwing]

Pre-amp side has only one 6922-tube, not sure what's the purpose. Amp's sound is nothing like "traditional tube amp", you wouldn't know it's "tube"-integrated.
Imo they could have done with out it...

6922 is a small dual triode valve typically used in amplifier input stages for the first voltage amplification stage and coupled with larger power valves to provide the output current required, in this case I presume the second stage amplification must be solid state. As the 6922 is a dual triode a single valve can handle a stereo signal.

 

[Hear Here]

Copland has been around for decades and enjoys a very good reputation. I've never encountered or even heard of Canor

The Copland CSA 100 and 150 have been on my "need to audition" list for a while, but I've not yet heard either. For me, I'd prefer to use AES/EBU as my digital input and to have an HDM1 socket, either for TV sound into the unit, or for album artwork from the unit into my TV as the Copland has no front panel screen. Sadly no AES/EBU or HDMI offered by Copland.

The trouble for me is that other all-in-one options offer far more flexibility and very good sound quality too. For example the NAD M33, or (what I'm planning to move to soon), the new M66 plus a power amp. Since it's the power amp that needs to work with the speakers, I've decided it may be best to have a stand-alone power amp, as changing speakers (no plans but you never know) may well mean a different power amp, while the rest (streamer / DAC / pre) remains perfectly valid if the amp is changed.

 

[Snafu]

Actually, local Copland dealer had CSA100 and i'm currently listening it

Bass goes so much deeper with CSA100 and is punchier than with my 75W channel monoblocks....

As the 6922 is a dual triode a single valve can handle a stereo signal.

Yes, thanks. That's why i was wondering if they could have gone full solid state (CSA70 doesn't have this tube). Maybe highs would have been even better?
But i'm not complaining, this amp sounds very good.

Copland has no front panel screen.

It really isn't their style and if you want one you must look elsewhere. Even Copland cd-players had just a small two color display.

For example the NAD M33

utterly ugly, no thanks.

One little nag: Copland's DAC is Amanero based and when playing Tidal some songs cut ~0.1 sec from the start. Not a problem when listening albums from start to finish, but when you listen let's say soundtrack or collection this can be heard every now and then.

cheers, try CSA100/150 if you have a chance

 

[DSJR]

Is the lack of 192 in the Hegel REALLY a problem though? I believe it's been shown that 16/44 is indistinguishable and actually advantageous at the listening end, if not in the mixing/processing stages.

The Hegel tested here got a bad rap, but I took it that the preamp output was set to an older standard of just a few hundred mV rather than a more modern perhaps, 2V or so, making it clip if pushed. I dare say the larger Hegels would be similar - I love the discrete looks and ease of operation for 'non-we' music lovers

 

[gwing]

The Hegel tested here got a bad rap, but I took it that the preamp output was set to an older standard of just a few hundred mV rather than a more modern perhaps, 2V or so, making it clip if pushed. I dare say the larger Hegels would be similar - I love the discrete looks and ease of operation for 'non-we' music lovers

AFAIK the standard for RCA line output was 'originally' 1V, then CD introduced 2V so there was a separate lower gain input for CD (as well as much higher gain for phono). Not all amps conformed perfectly of course ...

 

[SIY]

Lampizator

Run away from anything this hack "designs" or builds.

 

[Hear Here]

For example the NAD M33

utterly ugly, no thanks.

They say "beauty is in the eye of the beholder", so we must assume your eye is not keen on NAD's Master Series. Thankfully I am on the wavelength of most reviewers who make a point of complementing their looks. I'll still try to listen to the Copland some time, irrespective of its looks - actually not at all bad!

 

[ahofer]

I get wanting something good-looking, but audibly, high end DACs either won’t make any difference at all, or will make your system less transparent. Same goes for anything more expensive than a well-designed Hypex-based amplifier.

Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?

I know there are people out there that think cables affect sound, which is much worse, but there really is no response to something like that, but just to smile and nod. But what about people who talk about DACS as if they were headphone drivers or speakers, and talk about the SOUNDSTAGE...

audiosciencereview.com

 

[Grotti]

"The sound was a bit too clinical for me anyway and I had the feeling that everything sounded a bit separated and there was little harmony and rhythm in complex music tracks."

I don't think, that changing the amplifier would be a solution for your subjective experience. Especially adding a tube stage for a "warmer sound" is a misconception of what a proper designed tube pre amp stage does or should do. If in doubt try to get one of the named amplifiers and conduct a proper level matched blind test. How to is explained often enough on ASR. The outcome will be most likely, that you will not be able to differentiate between the amps as long they are working within their limits.

I would suggest to deal with the placement of the speakers first and add some PEQ after measuring the response of your speakers in the room with a free software like REW and a USB microphone like UMIK.

 

[Snafu]

I'll still try to listen to the Copland some time, irrespective of its looks - actually not at all bad!

just watch out stepping on that path. next you want good looking speakers to match the set

 

[JiiPee]

I can sell You a dozen magic beans for 5000 €. They have the advantage over Lampizator, that they don't detract sound quality.

Copland makes quality products, and that one tube in preamplification stage does not detract the sound quality so much that it would be noticeable. I prefer the Copland over Hegel because:
a) They look and feel nicer, and b) They are made in Europe (Denmark).

 

[Hear Here]

just watch out stepping on that path. next you want good looking speakers to match the set

I've got those already! though some may disagree of course!

 

[Hear Here]

I prefer the Copland over Hegel because:
a) They look and feel nicer, and b) They are made in Europe (Denmark).

A quiet word in your ear - Hegel is made in Europe too (Norway)

 

[JiiPee]

A quiet word in your ear - Hegel is made in Europe too (Norway)

A quiet word back to You - Hegel is designed in Norway, but manufactured in China (which is not part of Europe).

 

[Hear Here]

A quiet word back to You - Hegel is designed in Norway, but manufactured in China (which is not part of Europe).

Not what it says on the back of some of their units, but as long as it's Hegel designed and they offer warranty and care for quality control, does it make any real difference? Tesla builds cars in China but most people think it's an American car builder.

 

[JiiPee]

Not what it says on the back of some of their units, but as long as it's Hegel designed and they offer warranty and care for quality control, does it make any difference? Tesla builds cars in China but most people think it's an American car builder.

Hegel tries hard to hide the fact that their manufacturing is outsourced to China by mentioning just their HQ location, or design department location.

Does it matter ? Well, why would Hegel try to mislead potential customers on this issue if it does not matter ?

It is not so much about performance, than it is about ethics. There are quite many of us to whom it matters.

 

[Hear Here]

It is not so much about performance, than it is about ethics. There are quite many of us to whom it matters.

I suspect that 99% of US-built electronics (and cars and PCs for that matter) have parts within them built in China, often buried out of sight with no labels showing place of manufacture. Likewise, it's quite possible that Chinese-assembled units such as Hegel, NAD, Quad, include lots of parts made in Europe or the US. Where do you draw the line?