Arendal 1723 Towers best amplifier

[Paulflexxer]

I’m currently using an Yamaha RN-1000A, it sounds okay, but overall I’m not really happy with it. I cant really customize anything, like frequency etc. YPAO sounds bad, the rest is okay.. And it just has so many ports for other stuff that i won’t use.

For me I just want an simple amp, simple structure, easy use, nothing fancy, but of course, it should be better then my current RN1000A..

I got that amp really cheap, so i wont make a huge lost when reselling it, of course there are things that the new amp should have for example: AirPlay2, it’s a must have for me..


What I also heard, is that tube amps are a good combo, a youtuber recommended this amp: Vincent SV-237MKII.

But of course, I never know if this is only a promotion or a real statement.. I also heard an hegel from a friend and was really impressed by it.

Currently, I have these two in mind: Hegel H190 (can do airplay), Vincent SV-237MKII. Not many i know, but its always hard to find the right amp..



My Budget: 2000€ maybe more, my room: small

 

[warnerwh]

I hope you don't think a different power amplifier is going to make some sort of significant improvement in sound quality. What you have is a receiver which has a power amplifier section in it which is decent. It would be helpful if you would describe what you're not happy with. Also you may want to do some research on this site regarding the difference in sound between power amplifiers in double blind tests. Be very wary of much of what you read on the internet when it comes to amplifier sound. Hopefully you believe in science.

 

[Beave]

Agreed, especially since you mention your room is small. Your Yamaha - unless it's defective - is probably perfectly fine as an amplifier. Focus on the room, the placement of the speakers in the room, and the placement of your listening position.

 

[Paulflexxer]

I hope you don't think a different power amplifier is going to make some sort of significant improvement in sound quality. What you have is a receiver which has a power amplifier section in it which is decent. It would be helpful if you would describe what you're not happy with. Also you may want to do some research on this site regarding the difference in sound between power amplifiers in double blind tests. Be very wary of much of what you read on the internet when it comes to amplifier sound. Hopefully you believe in science.

So, you wanna tell me that there is no difference in sound between my amp and an tube amp?

And if I spend 1k or 10k it also doesn’t make a difference?

What I’m looking for.. can’t really describe it, I try:

Warm sound, wide soundstage, deep and clean bass (also customizable +-), smooth sounding, but also has to gets loud without distortion.

My Yamaha sounds okay, soundstage not really impressive, voices sometimes not clear, sometimes doesn’t feel like it’s coming from the middle.. ,

But I can’t tell in words what’s bad about it, it’s just not exciting to listen to it.

 

[Beave]

There *might* be a difference between your amp and a tube amp. Or there might not be. Hard to predict that one. But if there is a difference, it's likely that the tube amp is producing a colored response while the Yamaha is not. Some might like that, but many won't.

As for "warm sound," you want that from EQ and from your speakers, not from your amp. Amps are designed to be flat in response, neither warm nor bright.

As for soundstage and clarity of voices, amps have practically no effect there unless they are defective. That all depends on the recording, the speakers, and their interaction with room acoustics.

 

[ZolaIII]

So, you wanna tell me that there is no difference in sound between my amp and an tube amp?

And if I spend 1k or 10k it also doesn’t make a difference?

What I’m looking for.. can’t really describe it, I try:

Warm sound, wide soundstage, deep and clean bass (also customizable +-), smooth sounding, but also has to gets loud without distortion.

My Yamaha sounds okay, soundstage not really impressive, voices sometimes not clear, sometimes doesn’t feel like it’s coming from the middle.. ,

But I can’t tell in words what’s bad about it, it’s just not exciting to listen to it.

How about that you buy a UMIK-1 and see what's happening and what is YPAO doing? Especially pay attention to proper placement. Speakers are fine bat on the bright side (problematic phase/impedance behaviour there so not really sure if it can be tamed with DSP, with off axes horizontal placement it can) other than that 89 dB sensitivity and don't fall under 4.7 Ohms so no problems for your current Yamaha to handle. If YPAO on R-N suports manual PEQ's you are good as it is and if not and anyway if you want very capable DSP then take a look at MiniDSP offering, wouldn't actually pay for one of their's with WiFi/network streamer nor Dirac but you might feel different and in full pack (with UMIK-1 and Dirac included) the price difference is not that big anymore (compared to Flex or Flex HT when you count in mentioned). I would stay with Yamaha and learned to use it better if I whose you. And start using loudness on Yamaha.

 

[hat28]

Buying the Umik-1 mic and using the Housecurve iOS app was the best upgrade I ever made to the sound.

I never before appreciated how my speakers were interacting with the room to have dramatic impact on the sound.

You can hook up a Wiim Pro Plus to that Yamaha to get Airplay 2, and you'll be able to use the PEQ on the Wiim to get a better sound (only correct to 300hz using Housecurve- don't be tempted to go higher). There's plenty of good stuff on this site about using REW for room correction but REW has a shallow learning curve - Housecurve is as easy as it comes.

As others have said in this thread, the problem is highly unlikely to be with your amp.

Umik-1, Housecurve and Wiim Pro Plus will likely cost €350. With your €2000 budget, that's a minimal risk for you to take - and I can tell you the results are likely great.

 

[ZolaIII]

@hat28 WiiM PEQ implementation as it is now is uter garbage and same can be said for SVS. When you have to use two PEQ's out of 3~4 for a single room mode as limit is ±12 dB and very rough regarding precise pointing (rounded Q and Hz) you really don't get even minimum of what you need. If R-N has hand PEQ similar to their AVR's he should use it.

 

[hat28]

@hat28 WiiM PEQ implementation as it is now is uter garbage and same can be said for SVS. When you have to use two PEQ's out of 3~4 for a single room mode as limit is ±12 dB and very rough regarding precise pointing (rounded Q and Hz) you really don't get even minimum of what you need. If R-N has hand PEQ similar to their AVR's he should use it.

How much pointed precision with Q and Hz have you found is needed?

It's an unfortunate room setup that needs more than a 12dB correction too. The OP might find they are in the lucky majority.

 

[ZolaIII]

How much pointed precision with Q and Hz have you found is needed?

It's an unfortunate room setup that needs more than a 12dB correction too. The OP might find they are in the lucky majority.

Standard two decimal places FP is enough and somehow obvious. Actually it's interesting with what logic they even chose to do it differently.
Look i don't like tea spoon limitations with anything especially not DSP and there is zero closed enclosure solutions which have all what I use currently or could use and wide backwards compatibility which even disqualifies Linux as a OS.
Any other then block PEQ (with extended list of filters) is simply wrong and you add as much blocks as you may need or remove them individually when you don't and I telling this from programmer perspective (including both routines for filters and visual liners).
Room modes are usually wild and in the +20 dB or even more good part of the hole's are phase cancellations and there is more, much more.
Whose rather upset last night doing it for R3 Metas on WiiM, thank God it whose on Yamaha with loudness and tone controls so I menaged to do most of the job anyway.

 

[reggiegasket]

On one hand you say you want a 'simple amp, simple structure, easy use, nothing fancy' but then say you want it 'customisable'.

The Yamaha does have YPAO and tone controls but it sounds like these aren't what you are looking for, or haven't given you a sound you like.

The Yamaha isn't what you would call a 'warm' amp, if we can use that term. For that you'd need to audition some others - maybe a tube amp, maybe a Marantz 70.

But I'd look at the room first, and speaker placement. The Yamaha+Arendals should soundstage well, if the room lets them.
And if the system sounds bright (i.e. 'not warm') then maybe you have too many hard/reflective surfaces?
Also a 'small room' and towers isn't the obvious pairing. Maybe consider a smaller speaker?

 

[Paulflexxer]

On one hand you say you want a 'simple amp, simple structure, easy use, nothing fancy' but then say you want it 'customisable'.

The Yamaha does have YPAO and tone controls but it sounds like these aren't what you are looking for, or haven't given you a sound you like.

The Yamaha isn't what you would call a 'warm' amp, if we can use that term. For that you'd need to audition some others - maybe a tube amp, maybe a Marantz 70.

But I'd look at the room first, and speaker placement. The Yamaha+Arendals should soundstage well, if the room lets them.
And if the system sounds bright (i.e. 'not warm') then maybe you have too many hard/reflective surfaces?
Also a 'small room' and towers isn't the obvious pairing. Maybe consider a smaller speaker?

Yamaha for me isnt simple, in comparison with an lyngdorf, its afwul..

Lyngdorf, you have an website, from there you can change nearly anything, even too much. But its simple to understand, frequency settings are easy to find, setting Bass treble etc easy.

On Yamaha, you can change bass treble etc on the device itself, but most of the time, im just to lazy to stand up.

The App.. you cant do anything there, only if ypao is active you can customize a little bit, but ypao sounds afwul, also a popping is noticable, its just not comfortable to use at all.

And without ypao i can change bass treble thats it..

Sorry for my english, not really the best cause im from germany .

I will try my best with positioning, i also had bookshelfs from a other Company, but in comparison with the towers (bad).

The only purpose for this thread, was to find an (perfect) amp, and not to position my speaker better, what i already did..

 

[terryforsythe]

What I also heard, is that tube amps are a good combo, a youtuber recommended this amp

Tube amps and solid state amps do indeed sound different. Generally speaking, tube amps have higher harmonic distortion. Some people find some level of even order harmonics pleasing. If you hear someone describe a tube amplifier as sounding "sweet," it likely has an audible level of even order harmonics.

Another distinguishing feature between amplifiers is damping factor, which is the ratio of the nominal speaker impedance to the total output impedance of the system driving the speaker. Generally speaking, a high damping factor provides a tighter bass response. How noticeable this is will depend on the speakers' woofers, cabinets, etc. Solid state amplifiers tend to have a higher damping factor than tube amplifiers. But, even among different solid state amplifiers, the damping factor can vary significantly.

It may behoove you to listen to different amplifiers (preferably with your speakers, though this may not be practical) to hear the differences and determine what YOU like.

 

[terryforsythe]

I also heard an hegel from a friend and was really impressed by it.

Hegal amplifiers have a very high damping factor. This means they should do very well at controlling the bass.

If you liked the sound of the Hegal, what was it that you liked? If one of the things you liked was the bass response, then you probably want to look at amplifiers that have a high damping factor, which pretty much means focusing on solid state amplifiers and, of those, the subset that have a high damping factor.

In the end, the Hegal might be the right choice for you since you already know you like it.

The Hypex Nalai500DIY Stereo amplifier is another option. It is class D and has a high damping factor. It is a DIY kit, but not overly complicated build, and there is a YouTube video that shows how to assemble it. It is strictly an amplifier, so you probably would also want a streamer.

Hypex Nilai500DIY Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Hypex Nilai500DIY class D amplifier module with PS500DIY power supply. Parts were provided by the company and member @Rick Sykora was kind enough to assemble it: As indicated, the single channel amplifier is on the left and the power supply on...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Paulflexxer]

Hegal amplifiers have a very high damping factor. This means they should do very well at controlling the bass.

If you liked the sound of the Hegal, what was it that you liked? If one of the things you liked was the bass response, then you probably want to look at amplifiers that have a high damping factor, which pretty much means focusing on solid state amplifiers and, of those, the subset that have a high damping factor.

In the end, the Hegal might be the right choice for you since you already know you like it.

The Hypex Nalai500DIY Stereo amplifier is another option. It is class D and has a high damping factor. It is a DIY kit, but not overly complicated build, and there is a YouTube video that shows how to assemble it. It is strictly an amplifier, so you probably would also want a streamer.

Hegal amplifiers have a very high damping factor. This means they should do very well at controlling the bass.

If you liked the sound of the Hegal, what was it that you liked? If one of the things you liked was the bass response, then you probably want to look at amplifiers that have a high damping factor, which pretty much means focusing on solid state amplifiers and, of those, the subset that have a high damping factor.

In the end, the Hegal might be the right choice for you since you already know you like it.

The Hypex Nalai500DIY Stereo amplifier is another option. It is class D and has a high damping factor. It is a DIY kit, but not overly complicated build, and there is a YouTube video that shows how to assemble it. It is strictly an amplifier, so you probably would also want a streamer.

Hypex Nilai500DIY Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Hypex Nilai500DIY class D amplifier module with PS500DIY power supply. Parts were provided by the company and member @Rick Sykora was kind enough to assemble it: As indicated, the single channel amplifier is on the left and the power supply on...

www.audiosciencereview.com

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Hegal amplifiers have a very high damping factor. This means they should do very well at controlling the bass.

If you liked the sound of the Hegal, what was it that you liked? If one of the things you liked was the bass response, then you probably want to look at amplifiers that have a high damping factor, which pretty much means focusing on solid state amplifiers and, of those, the subset that have a high damping factor.

In the end, the Hegal might be the right choice for you since you already know you like it.

The Hypex Nalai500DIY Stereo amplifier is another option. It is class D and has a high damping factor. It is a DIY kit, but not overly complicated build, and there is a YouTube video that shows how to assemble it. It is strictly an amplifier, so you probably would also want a streamer.

Hypex Nilai500DIY Amplifier Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the Hypex Nilai500DIY class D amplifier module with PS500DIY power supply. Parts were provided by the company and member @Rick Sykora was kind enough to assemble it: As indicated, the single channel amplifier is on the left and the power supply on...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Yes, i also got a recommendation from amirm (who does reviews) for the Hypex.

I mean, he told me that there are companys like NAD that also build Systems with the hypex integrated + streaming also integrated.

Of course i can also build it by myself, but then i also need an streamer..

Im asking myself, whats better overall? I only heard from NAD, cant tell if they are good.

 

[terryforsythe]

It is your system and your decision to make.

Personally, I just ordered a Hypex Nalai500DIY Stereo amplifier and a WiiM Pro Plus streamer - both are due in this week.

 

[Paulflexxer]

It is your system and your decision to make.

Personally, I just ordered a Hypex Nalai500DIY Stereo amplifier and a WiiM Pro Plus streamer - both are due in this week.

The problem is it doesnt he have an sub port? In future i defenitely will use one..

 

[terryforsythe]

The problem is it doesnt he have an sub port? In future i defenitely will use one..

The other issue for you is that the analog out on the WiiM is unbalanced coax, whereas the Hypex input is balanced XLR. You would need a converter, a preamp with balanced out, or a DSP unit with balanced out. I will be using a DSP unit between the two, which also is on order.

In that regard, personally, I would not use anything with a standard sub output. They typically do not provide adequate features to allow one to get a smooth crossover transition between the speakers and the sub. Phasing issues are an uphill battle, and a simple witch between 0 deg. and 180 deg. isn't adequate in my experience. That is one of the reasons I use DSP. I like MiniDSP's offerings.

Perhaps if the subwoofer has a variable time delay feature, or has a continuously variable phase knob beyond just a 0/180 switch, it may be OK. Still, it won't sound as good as using a DSP unit that allows you to select crossover topologies, crossover slopes, crossover frequencies, and to apply the appropriate time delays that work best for your system and subwoofer/speaker placements.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Have you tried turning off YPAO and using the loudness knob on the front panel?

 

[warnerwh]

Deleted