Best measuring tube pre amp?

[radix]

If you look at advertisements from 'back in the day,' you'll see that they were trying as best they could with the technology at hand to reproduce the signal as cleanly as possible.

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Compared to today's SS numbers, these may not be great, but it is unlikely those distortion numbers would be audible with real music. What's left is whatever the noise component is, but I don't think you are arguing that the noise contribution is what makes tubes special.

They are 'guaranteed for the protection of quality sound.' I'm not interested in a one size fits all fuzzbox. Hi-Fidelity and all...

If you go through McintoshCompendium on the power amps, you see basically with each generation their THD for tube amps stay around 0.5%. That is, they keep it with about the same sound (at least for the MC 75, MC 275 series). For MC3500, it was 0.15%.

For the SS models, the THD goes like 0.25% (2105), 0.1% (2205), .02% (2250), .005% (7100), etc. I think they mostly bottomed out around 0.005% maybe in the early 90s?, but that was really 1st watt to last rated watt. I skipped a bunch of models.

 

[Salt]

Oxymoron?

No.

 

[Purité Audio]

Many seem insulted like it is though.
As Nelson Pass says "It's not dialysis"

and I'm probably still going to call it hi-fi just to annoy people

Nelson is a pretty shrewd businessman, change the distortion profile slightly and sell another amp.
Keith

 

[ta240]

It's not hi-fi anymore, either. But knock yourself silly if you like how it sounds.

Is distortionless reproduction by the amplifier still "hi-fi" if the room isn't perfectly dampened to avoid room modes and bad reflections?

Nelson is a pretty shrewd businessman, change the distortion profile slightly and sell another amp.
Keith

And Topping releases a new DAC with 3db of inaudible reduction in noise and everyone grabs them up to replace their prior DAC that was outside the audible level of noise.
Both sides of the argument have their fetish.

 

[Salt]

Many seem insulted like it is though.
As Nelson Pass says "It's not dialysis"

and I'm probably still going to call it hi-fi just to annoy people

I never had a chance to listen to anything of these in discussion, and so can not give any classification.
But those, who like and love these, may be fine with them, no matter what measurements are about.
Why not?

 

[Ron Texas]

No.

Why?

 

[ta240]

Why not?

It is funny that any thread about tube amps on here quickly turns into trying to save people from the evils of tubes.

At lower volume levels my tube amp, which the same design performed well in Blueglow Audio's build and test, was always very nice for listening. I added Neurochrome's maida regulator so mine likely even performed better. My First Watt M2 clone was one of the only amps that when I sat at my desk I'd find myself done with work and just lean my head back and listen. Who knows, maybe the artist would hear that playback and go "that is exactly how I want it to sound"

 

[Salt]

Why?

Like?

 

[Salt]

Oxymoron?

And for in length: it is not a contradiction, that a seller/dealer refines towards SOTA, but may even sell some 'like to have' besides. Why not?
Business at usual.

 

[Ron Texas]

And for in length: it is not a contradiction, that a seller/dealer refines towards SOTA, but may even sell some 'like to have' besides. Why not?
Business at usual.

It was pointed out above that the better a tube amp measures the less it sounds like tube gear. So, for your extra money what you get is more heat and a bigger electric bill.

 

[ta240]

And for in length: it is not a contradiction, that a seller/dealer refines towards SOTA, but may even sell some 'like to have' besides. Why not?
Business at usual.

It would be a bit like frowning on car manufactures for making cars that aren't practical but are fun.

It was pointed out above that the better a tube amp measures the less it sounds like tube gear. So, for your extra money what you get is more heat and a bigger electric bill.

Sure, but do people look at everything in their life that way or just audio equipment that annoys them? Unless they look at every purchase from the 'could I buy something just as good that would cost me less in the long run?' then it is an irrelevant argument for them to use. I'd be willing to bet they buy lots of things that defy financial logic, just because they like it. Designer clothes, furniture, food, vacations; all of it could be equated down to what they get for the 'extra money'.

And I'd be willing to bet plenty of people on here spend way more on electricity powering their 'efficient' electronics to high volume levels than I would ever spend powering my low power tube gear to the level I like.

 

[radix]

It would be a bit like frowning on car manufactures for making cars that aren't practical but are fun.


Sure, but do people look at everything in their life that way or just audio equipment that annoys them? Unless they look at every purchase from the 'could I buy something just as good that would cost me less in the long run?' then it is an irrelevant argument for them to use. I'd be willing to bet they buy lots of things that defy financial logic, just because they like it. Designer clothes, furniture, food, vacations; all of it could be equated down to what they get for the 'extra money'.

And I'd be willing to bet plenty of people on here spend way more on electricity powering their 'efficient' electronics to high volume levels than I would ever spend powering my low power tube gear to the level I like.

I think lots of people buy things for secondary factors (looks, user interface, etc.) as long as the performance is "good enough." For example, I bought a McIntosh MC2205 (0.1% THD) along with 2 other Mc components and L100s because that was the look I wanted in that room.

I think people just need to be clear about why they are buying something. I could have spent a lot less and gotten a lot better technical performance, but that did not fit the purpose of the system.

 

[fpitas]

Is distortionless reproduction by the amplifier still "hi-fi" if the room isn't perfectly dampened to avoid room modes and bad reflections?

Yes. At least, you're only straying further if you introduce distortions.

 

[Ron Texas]

It would be a bit like frowning on car manufactures for making cars that aren't practical but are fun.


Sure, but do people look at everything in their life that way or just audio equipment that annoys them? Unless they look at every purchase from the 'could I buy something just as good that would cost me less in the long run?' then it is an irrelevant argument for them to use. I'd be willing to bet they buy lots of things that defy financial logic, just because they like it. Designer clothes, furniture, food, vacations; all of it could be equated down to what they get for the 'extra money'.

And I'd be willing to bet plenty of people on here spend way more on electricity powering their 'efficient' electronics to high volume levels than I would ever spend powering my low power tube gear to the level I like.

Most of what I spend on electricity is for my air conditioning. It's a lot.

 

[solderdude]

Some people are too hung up on distortion numbers near full output swing.
Some people want lowest possible distortion (highest signal fidelity) others just want the music to sound nice.
For distortion to be sound degrading with music you need quite a lot of it.

 

[Jack Harrison]

Can I be the first to say that is a bit like asking:

"What is the best performing clown car"?

Or

What is the best transatlantic passenger bi-plane?

Or

What is the best chicory based coffee?


Ignore me - I'm just yelling at clouds

Yep, that’s one of the worst things about ASR right there. Just like those poor guys waving their arms about and shouting in the street. Someone dares to ask a question about tubes, vinyl, cables, whatever and off they go.
Best performing clown car would be a Tesla by the way.

 

[Purité Audio]

If gently mockery is the worst thing about ASR , then the place really isn’t that bad is it.
Keith

 

[Sokel]

I cannot imagine buying a tube thing without the nice distortion that comes with it (but with low noise).
What would be the point of that?Looks and glow only?

I mean even the best measuring stuff now offer such distortion factories (SINAD close to 40db and they call it "fine tunning" and "timbre" ) :

 

[Jack Harrison]

If gently mockery is the worst thing about ASR , then the place really isn’t that bad is it.
Keith

Fair enough. In my first job I had a colleague called Joe King. Guess what, when we were introduced I said ‘you must be Joe King’. The poor chap didn’t laugh at all. Ask an innocent question about tubes, vinyl, cables on ASR and sooner or later someone is going to treat you like a buffoon. Maybe the first time it’s funny?

 

[solderdude]

I cannot imagine buying a tube thing without the nice distortion that comes with it (but with low noise).
What would be the point of that?Looks and glow only?

I mean even the best measuring stuff now offer such distortion factories (SINAD close to 40db and they call it "fine tunning" and "timbre" ) :

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Its a good thing they did not show the multitone.... With a 1kHz sine wave it looks as though only harmonics are added which only change the 'tone'.
Reality is somewhat different.
Fortunately with music a lot of it is masked.