Gustard DAC-X30

[staticV3]

A bit confused here: with a 32-tone multitone signal shouldn't they be all at -30Db in order for them to add to a 0db signal.

That's not how multitone signals work.

A typical, well-optimized 32-tone multitone signal has 32 sine waves at about -24dBFS each, adding up to 0dBFS Peak amplitude.

Depending on the signal generator logic, the individual frequency amplitude may be lower despite equal Peak amplitude.

It's not as simple as 32x -30dB = 0dB.

and therefore read the IMD correctly?

Traditionally, we normalize the IMD graph to the peak amplitude of the individual sine waves to show the distortion relative to those.

Just like how THD specifies harmonic distortion as a percentage of the amplitude of the fundamental sine wave.

The stimulus is the reference, distortion is relative to that.

 

[mocenigo]

That's not how multitone signals work.

A typical, well-optimized 32-tone multitone signal has 32 sine waves at about -24dBFS each, adding up to 0dBFS Peak amplitude.

Yep, playing a bit with the phases, then you reduce some of the peaks.

Depending on the signal generator logic, the individual frequency amplitude may be lower despite equal Peak amplitude.

It's not as simple as 32x -30dB = 0dB.

Traditionally, we normalize the IMD graph to the peak amplitude of the individual sine waves to show the distortion relative to those.

I understand. However fact is that in that case the IMD would be at -154Db wrt the composite signal. So maybe one should try with 2, 3, 4, etc and take the maximum IMD in all these cases as normalised to the total signal.

In any case, two observations 1) in both ways to measure it is inaudible anyway at those levels and 2) normalising to the components instead of to the sum is probably easier to use as a mathematical tool to bound various distortion effects from above.

Just like how THD specifies harmonic distortion as a percentage of the amplitude of the fundamental sine wave.

The stimulus is the reference, distortion is relative to that.

 

[Greenman]

own Gustard R26, which I love a lot, but from a bass standpoint, it leaves me wanting more. I also own a SMSL SU-10, in my opinion the Gustard bests it in every way possible. Hopefully that X30 solves the bass problem.

The X30 will certainly solve the bass problem, if that’s all you want then the x26pro also solves the bass problem (hence my confidence that x30 will likewise). However the R26 bests the x26pro most other respects. So the real question to me will be can the x30 produce the lifelike mids and soundstage that the R26 excels at, or will it leave you feeling flat and uninterested like so many chip dacs (I guess this is your experience with Su10 as well (which I haven’t heard)).

r26 has a serious lack of bass. It was clear to me after 10 seconds.

Did you experience a well run in R26? When I bought my R26 I thought the bass might be an area I couldn’t live with, so much so I bought a x26pro. However after a number of weeks of comparing the R26 and x26pro the bass gap closed considerably. What didn’t close though was the advantage of the R26 in most other respects. My issues with the R26 bass was not so much the weight but more the precision and impact, which seemed somewhat Slow and indistinct initially. I know I didn’t just get used to the R26 and just think it had improved as I used my CD player (Naim CDS3) as a baseline, this being particularly strong in the bass. Where initially the R26 was hopelessly outclassed, now the R26 is still beaten but my a much smaller margin.

While I won’t claim the R26 excels in the bass I find its bass performance now good, the fact that it’s excels in many other areas means it’s still a winner for me, in fact i do prefer it to my ($10k) CD player.

 

[BrokenOath]

The X30 will certainly solve the bass problem, if that’s all you want then the x26pro also solves the bass problem (hence my confidence that x30 will likewise). However the R26 bests the x26pro most other respects. So the real question to me will be can the x30 produce the lifelike mids and soundstage that the R26 excels at, or will it leave you feeling flat and uninterested like so many chip dacs (I guess this is your experience with Su10 as well (which I haven’t heard)).


Did you experience a well run in R26? When I bought my R26 I thought the bass might be an area I couldn’t live with, so much so I bought a x26pro. However after a number of weeks of comparing the R26 and x26pro the bass gap closed considerably. What didn’t close though was the advantage of the R26 in most other respects. My issues with the R26 bass was not so much the weight but more the precision and impact, which seemed somewhat Slow and indistinct initially. I know I didn’t just get used to the R26 and just think it had improved as I used my CD player (Naim CDS3) as a baseline, this being particularly strong in the bass. Where initially the R26 was hopelessly outclassed, now the R26 is still beaten but my a much smaller margin.

While I won’t claim the R26 excels in the bass I find its bass performance now good, the fact that it’s excels in many other areas means it’s still a winner for me, in fact i do prefer it to my ($10k) CD player.

I agree with everything you said. I bought the R26 mid-April this year, and only use it occasionally, so it is not fully open yet. However, I have found a way around that bass issue. I am using it with a tube preamp which allows me to use a wide variety of tubes, and also the ability to change the output coupling capacitors. I know some here will try to run me out of town for reporting this, but I have been rolling capacitors (from cheap to expensive) in this tube preamp, and what I am observing surprises me.

 

[Purité Audio]

Have you kept one unit with the original op-amps to allow instantaneous comparison?
Keith

 

[chord]

Did you experience a well run in R26? When I bought my R26 I thought the bass might be an area I couldn’t live with, so much so I bought a x26pro. However after a number of weeks of comparing the R26 and x26pro the bass gap closed considerably. What didn’t close though was the advantage of the R26 in most other respects. My issues with the R26 bass was not so much the weight but more the precision and impact, which seemed somewhat Slow and indistinct initially. I know I didn’t just get used to the R26 and just think it had improved as I used my CD player (Naim CDS3) as a baseline, this being particularly strong in the bass. Where initially the R26 was hopelessly outclassed, now the R26 is still beaten but my a much smaller margin.

While I won’t claim the R26 excels in the bass I find its bass performance now good, the fact that it’s excels in many other areas means it’s still a winner for me, in fact i do prefer it to my ($10k) CD player.

Yes, I had a well-burned R26, I listened to it for 3 weeks in parallel with my own A26.
The depth and quality of the bass of the A26 is a completely different galaxy, this is the very first thing that stood out. So much better that the comparison was almost humiliating. I tried to find in the sound of the R26 what many wrote 100 pages about on the net. Well, really, R26 is not bad, it has musicality, it is not too offensive and it does not absorb too much information. It is much better than an average dac, especially the older ones. However, it could not approach the A26 in any way. The A26 is significantly better, faster and more rhythmic. On the edges / margins no any question. The point where the A26 leaves the field standing is the mid section. Some quite strange smoothness, velvety, which surrounds the instruments like an aura. Just like in the real world. And what finally makes it the winner for me is the tonal fidelity. The treatment of overtones is more realistic. In comparison, the R26 is thin, a little-bit inaccurate in tone, and boring to me.
The R26 is perhaps good for electronic- and hi-fi records and jazz, but the A26 is so much better for classical music.

It's a bit like you, because I do prefer it to my ($15k) SACD player.

One more important thing: the A26's volume control is much better; it seems that the control is in analog way up to -24 dB, there is a click once, and from there the usual digital volume control takes place; as with r26 throughout the full range.

 

[Greenman]

Yes, I had a well-burned R26, I listened to it for 3 weeks in parallel with my own A26.
The depth and quality of the bass of the A26 is a completely different galaxy, this is the very first thing that stood out. So much better that the comparison was almost humiliating. I tried to find in the sound of the R26 what many wrote 100 pages about on the net. Well, really, R26 is not bad, it has musicality, it is not too offensive and it does not absorb too much information. It is much better than an average dac, especially the older ones. However, it could not approach the A26 in any way. The A26 is significantly better, faster and more rhythmic. On the edges no any question. The point where the A26 leaves the field standing is the mid section. Some quite strange smoothness, velvety, which surrounds the instruments like an aura. Just like in the real world. And what finally makes it the winner for me is the tonal fidelity. The treatment of overtones is more realistic. In comparison, the R26 is thin, a little-bit inaccurate in tone, and boring to me.
The R26 is perhaps good for electronic- and hi-fi records and jazz, but the A26 is so much better for classical music.

It's a bit like you, because I do prefer it to my ($15k) SACD player.

One more important thing: the A26's volume control is much better; it seems that the control is in analog way up to -24 dB, there is a click once, and from there the usual digital volume control takes place; as with r26 throughout the full range.

Well just goes to show. I’ve had the A26 at home as well (a friend lent me his while he was on holiday for 2 weeks). My preference was the R26 by far. Maybe my system matches the R26 a bit better, The A26 edged the x26, especially in the mid range (bass similar). But for me in my system R26>A26>(slight) X26pro. - I never use the vol control on any of these so can’t comment here.

 

[chord]

Well just goes to show. I’ve had the A26 at home as well (a friend lent me his while he was on holiday for 2 weeks). My preference was the R26 by far. Maybe my system matches the R26 a bit better, The A26 edged the x26, especially in the mid range (bass similar). But for me in my system R26>A26>(slight) X26pro. - I never use the vol control on any of these so can’t comment here.

That's normal.
We have different sets and tastes and music.
That's why the hifi industry is going well.

 

[sernikus]

Usd2999.99,- ...shenhzenaudio....wow...

 

[poldo]

more DAC chips -> better SNR

Yes, but at some point it must flat out, right, due to various kinds of statistical effects, correlations, right? Moving from 2 to 4 certainly is more beneficial than 8 to 16. Do we know when it's expected to flat out given current DAC technology?

 

[poldo]

I am a purist, I don't like the idea of mangling with the audio stream.

I hear you, but nowadays seems pretty fashionable Admittedly modern PEQs are very good.

 

[Wicky]

Product design has seriously stepped up for Gustard, IMO a very nice looking unit. Of course, the X30 is backed up by solid engineering. A premium product deserving to it's price point

 

[Smarty]

It seems the X30 lacks Bluetooth although it's priced at $3000 I love the convenience of Bluetooth playing Sportify via the Galaxy S23 so you never have to leave the listening chair or bed. I know i sound a lazy person that's why i don't like turn tables to play music. Anyways I'm sure it's an excellent DAC one of the best, if not the best, that outperforms $20000 Swiss made DACs.

 

[Svend P]

Serious Question: How can DAC's have a SOUND SIGNATURE if they measure as transparent? Are that many confused?

I know there are people out there that think cables affect sound, which is much worse, but there really is no response to something like that, but just to smile and nod. But what about people who talk about DACS as if they were headphone drivers or speakers, and talk about the SOUNDSTAGE...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[BrokenOath]

It seems the X30 lacks Bluetooth although it's priced at $3000 I love the convenience of Bluetooth playing Sportify via the Galaxy S23 so you never have to leave the listening chair or bed. I know i sound a lazy person that's why i don't like turn tables to play music. Anyways I'm sure it's an excellent DAC one of the best, if not the best, that outperforms $20000 Swiss made DACs.

It has Airplay, UPNP/DLNA; better sound quality than bluetooth with these.

 

[BrokenOath]

The $2999 USD price-tag is disappointing though.

 

[BrokenOath]

Product design has seriously stepped up for Gustard, IMO a very nice looking unit. Of course, the X30 is backed up by solid engineering. A premium product deserving to it's price point

I don't like the all glass front. I prefer the look of the R26

 

[BrokenOath]

Yes, I had a well-burned R26, I listened to it for 3 weeks in parallel with my own A26.
The depth and quality of the bass of the A26 is a completely different galaxy, this is the very first thing that stood out. So much better that the comparison was almost humiliating. I tried to find in the sound of the R26 what many wrote 100 pages about on the net. Well, really, R26 is not bad, it has musicality, it is not too offensive and it does not absorb too much information. It is much better than an average dac, especially the older ones. However, it could not approach the A26 in any way. The A26 is significantly better, faster and more rhythmic. On the edges / margins no any question. The point where the A26 leaves the field standing is the mid section. Some quite strange smoothness, velvety, which surrounds the instruments like an aura. Just like in the real world. And what finally makes it the winner for me is the tonal fidelity. The treatment of overtones is more realistic. In comparison, the R26 is thin, a little-bit inaccurate in tone, and boring to me.
The R26 is perhaps good for electronic- and hi-fi records and jazz, but the A26 is so much better for classical music.

It's a bit like you, because I do prefer it to my ($15k) SACD player.

One more important thing: the A26's volume control is much better; it seems that the control is in analog way up to -24 dB, there is a click once, and from there the usual digital volume control takes place; as with r26 throughout the full range.

The thing is, both Greenman and chord are right. I have verified the R26 with 3 different preamps.
1- Topping A90D in preamp mode only - Observation: lack of bass, 2D presentation, but very transparent.

2- Musical Paradise MP-701MK3. This preamp can be configured with a few simple switches so it can be used with any types of signal preamp tubes (6sn7, 6922, 12au7, 12ax7, 6h23n, 6h30, 6N1, 6H6...... ect), and also rectifier tubes that you can think of. Not only that, but the output coupling caps can also be changed within a range of 1.5uF to 10uF. This is a highly configurable preamp. You can configure it in accordance to your taste. I was able to configure this preamp - in one instance, I can corroborate exactly what Greenman said about the R26, and in another instance with another set of tubes and caps, I can corroborate exactly what chord said about the R26.

3- Classé model five: In my opinion, Classé produced some of the best sounding preamps out there. With this preamp I observed exactly what Greenman said. Bass is impactfull, dynamics to die for, and the highs are the best I have ever heard. Listening to the Gustard R26 with this preamp, then I understand why the R26 is so loved and venerated by so many.

Here is a look at my system:
Amplifier: Classé Ca-100
Speakers: Klipsch Klipschorns (105dB per 1 watt per 1 meter)

 

[BDWoody]

The depth and quality of the bass of the A26 is a completely different galaxy, this is the very first thing that stood out. So much better that the comparison was almost humiliating.

Uh huh.

1- Topping A90D in preamp mode only - Observation: lack of bass, 2D presentation, but very transparent.

Let me guess... No controls used.

 

[Bob from Florida]

Uh huh.



Let me guess... No controls used.

My question is why would the bass be different if the response is flat. The only thing that comes to mind is an intentional eq in the DAC in question. But, if that were true it would not measure “flat”.