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Gustard DAC-X30

Tons of flowery prose is what it is, dude must get paid by characters typed.

He even writes he has 'fetish for math'. You'd think he'll produce a measurement or a at least a specs-driven analysis. Turns out 'math fetish' is when you drool over symmetrical case and 'beefy' circuitry:facepalm:
OK.
If you write here at ASR that 'I like the sound of xxx dac and I prefet to yyyy dac a lot' - is it an information?
 
OK.
If you write here at ASR that 'I like the sound of xxx dac and I prefet to yyyy dac a lot' - is it an information?
Sure I'm informed of the person's subjective preference, but that's of no value to me when it comes to understanding audio gear. It's worthless as a piece of consumer advice. It adds nothing to the conversation, because it isn't grounded in anything but a personal impression, which, we know for a fact, is extremely fallible, prone to biases, virtually untranslatable from one individual to another.

And that's not even the point - it would be a dream world if ppl just stopped at saying 'I enjoy using DAC X' - no, they will wax poetic about 'juicy bass' of DAC X vs. 'clinicality' of DAC Y etc. with nothing to back the claims, zero proof, zero controlled testing, nada.

At the next step you've got the 'reviewers' who use the same sort of empty drivel to sell stuff, framing it as consumer advice. That guy you linked to writes:
[played through Chord DAVE] The sounds were no longer free and unhindered as they were on the X30
It surely is 'information' if you insist, but care to decipher it for me? Sound is a well-researched, deeply studied phenomenon. What is an 'unhindered' sound then? What parameters produce a 'hindered' soundwave? And even if you have your understanding of those terms, how do you know the reviewer had the same stuff in mind?


You joined quite recently, and I don't mean to come across as blindly combative. There are dozens of forums where this kind of methaphorical talk is welcome, and discussions are focused on exchanging impressions. This forum, however, has a different set of principles, which makes it unique. The evaluations shared here are expected to be backed by well-designed tests or at least an understanding of how devices operate and of the limits of human sensory perception.
 
...


You joined quite recently, and I don't mean to come across as blindly combative. There are dozens of forums where this kind of methaphorical talk is welcome, and discussions are focused on exchanging impressions. This forum, however, has a different set of principles, which makes it unique. The evaluations shared here are expected to be backed by well-designed tests or at least an understanding of how devices operate and of the limits of human sensory perception.
Seems that the 'well-designed tests' and 'methaphorical talks' are the similar bricks of the hifi matrix.
ASR can mislead you with the measurements just like the X30 guy with his paid-enthusiasm.
Personally I would prefer the simple user's impressions; but there is still very little of it.
 
I also enjoy a good story but when it comes to audio reproduction I prefer evidence backed by measurements.
Keith
 
In what way?
Some examples:
 
Seems that the 'well-designed tests' and 'methaphorical talks' are the similar bricks of the hifi matrix.
ASR can mislead you with the measurements just like the X30 guy with his paid-enthusiasm.
Personally I would prefer the simple user's impressions; but there is still very little of it.

Meant to reply to this: @staticV3

"Svend P said:
In what way?
Some examples:
www.audiosciencereview.com
Sennheiser HD 490 Pro Headphone Review
This is a review, detailed measurements, listening tests and equalization of Sennheiser HD 490 Pro open back headphone. It was kindly drop shipped to me and costs US $399. The headphone is ultra light courtesy of plastic composite that manage to also feel extremely solid. The included cord...
www.audiosciencereview.com www.audiosciencereview.com
www.audiosciencereview.com
"



The problem with headphone and IEM testing is fit to the testing instrument, which also implies fit to your head or ear canal. Whatever results you get from the test gear changes with not only the head in question, but how you position and seal on that head. So, read the test results carefully as well as any “listening” impressions especially with regard to whether EQ is required and problems getting consistent results from the test jig. Staying pragmatic may be a good strategy - comfort, minimal or no EQ requirements, return ability to the Vendor, and budget are probably good takeaways from the review.
 
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I use three separate DACs, 2 Micromega (a brand that unfortunately disappeared), the Concept DAC 1 (limited to 48 KHz, for $250 - was worth a thousand in 1996) and a Mydac (192, bought for $60 because I wanted it in black since the cream coating ages over time). And two 3D Labs., a Nano V5 (384K, $750, new more than double - I still have their DAC 500 limited to 96K but I don't use it anymore-). Even with headphones the differences (?) are almost zero and do not make the sound of one more pleasant than the other. Even worse, those integrated into the players, Sony S-6700 Br or my faithful Teac VRDS 10 (I still have a Micromega Drive 2 but as its name indicates I can only use it with an external converter but on its headphone jack, it's the same), I don't find any obvious difference(s), except perhaps some rather vague impressions.
Only the Nano has a headphone jack so I go through a tiny dedicated amp, the Micromega Myzic, maybe it simplifies listening results and that with a 300b tube amp...
So there you are offering more than $3000 for a product type that no longer has any magic (like in Wadia's time), with in "addition" a very ordinary box...
 
Some examples:
But you're throwing amps/transducers into the mix now. The discussion here was around sound impressions from 'auditioning' DACs.

No one sane is saying measurements cannot be misinterpreted/misrepresented, especially without proper technical background. And I'm well aware of how some expert members challenge Amir's methodology.

But still, the parallel:
ASR can mislead you with the measurements just like the X30 guy with his paid-enthusiasm.
is preposterous, don't you think?

An incense-burning quack can mislead a cancer patient. A trained physician failing to properly analyze a PET scan can mislead a patient too. Does it mean both lines of practice are equally relevant in cancer treatment?
 
Yeah ! We avoid comparisons with cars !
But at what price? Is cancer currently curable by medicine? So a very bad example, without forgetting the pathos linked to it: a fatal disease against listening impressions?!
 
But you're throwing amps/transducers into the mix now. The discussion here was around sound impressions from 'auditioning' DACs.

No one sane is saying measurements cannot be misinterpreted/misrepresented, especially without proper technical background. And I'm well aware of how some expert members challenge Amir's methodology.

But still, the parallel:

is preposterous, don't you think?

An incense-burning quack can mislead a cancer patient. A trained physician failing to properly analyze a PET scan can mislead a patient too. Does it mean both lines of practice are equally relevant in cancer treatment?

I suspect @chord is saying is you can be "religious" about anything. If you want to believe measurements or some fancy "hand waving" - human beings choose what they wish to influence their thinking.
 
Those two examples could hardly be more different.
Keith
 
In what way?

Here you are:

index.php


According these measurements - SMSL SU-10 the best.
The only problem that it's a misleading information for those looking for good sound quality.
 
What is misleading about the SINAD measurement?
What is misleading in all such type of measurements: the less experienced audience connects the given measurement results with the perceived sound quality, and e.g. rush to buy SMSL SU-10.
This obviously stems from the scientifically disguised belief that will always be a topic of debate among hi-fi fans: that a better component or a better measurement result automatically results in better sound quality.
I'm afraid this has been discussed back and forth a thousand times here and the positions are completely unchanged and opposite to each other.
 
In fact there is only one valid scientific opinion, that of considering that the perceived "sound quality" is not related to the displayed price.
Electronics engineers laugh reading you! I have done a lot of abx with high-priced devices, almost the maximum of the time, including these mysterious speakers. Everyone knows the results.
 
What is misleading in all such type of measurements: the less experienced audience connects the given measurement results with the perceived sound quality, and e.g. rush to buy SMSL SU-10.
This obviously stems from the scientifically disguised belief that will always be a topic of debate among hi-fi fans: that a better component or a better measurement result automatically results in better sound quality.
I'm afraid this has been discussed back and forth a thousand times here and the positions are completely unchanged and opposite to each other.
Some reading, learning and understanding is required.
Keith
 
In fact there is only one valid scientific opinion, that of considering that the perceived "sound quality" is not related to the displayed price.
Electronics engineers laugh reading you! I have done a lot of abx with high-priced devices, almost the maximum of the time, including these mysterious speakers. Everyone knows the results.
Yes, sometimes the pice / sq ratio is nonsense.

But it is possible that those electrical engineers do not have the sensitivity that we do.

A good example of this is the Japanese hi-fi industry in the 90s, which today we would say had a kind of 'ASR-oriented' design. Perfect, flawless electronic design; ultra-excellent measured parameters; for example, the Sony 50ES ran direct drive way with a Hall sensors and sapphire bearings, and even the tray opening V-belt was a masterpiece.
Then came a Roksan Attessa, almost empty inside, with undemanding plastic Philips mechanics, with a 50-cent DC motor, the whole thing wobbled, a small commercial PSU, - so it was a technical glitch - and the sound was another galaxy. It sounded so much better that it was barely there credible.

Well, one is created with with an engineering approach and the other mainly with auditions / listenings.
 
Same Roksan that couldn’t stop their armboards from sagging, if only they used an engineer.
Keith
 
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