3-4 year old DAC’s compared to newest?

[damaged_goods]

I have been offered to purchase a used Gustard X16 for $250, and I’m wondering how it compares to newer DAC’s that retails new for a similar price, like the Topping D50 III?

The X16 measures well, also by 2025 standards, it is solidly built and it has the features I need. But would it make more sense to just buy the latest Topping or SMSL DAC for $250?

 

[hash70]

i have the x16,great sounding dac and for 250 bucks its a steal,its solid built and id take over the d50 iii

 

[ZolaIII]

Best would be to buy older still not discontinued one for which users reported least problems with. DAC chips didn't really improve much if any in last 3~4 years.

 

[Lambda]

If you don’t need EARC or some other new inputs... no reason to upgrade. there are many "Fully transparent" DACs with symmetrical outputs.
(you might have to add a USB isolator to some)
for as low as 100€

No matter if old or new if you spend 250 bucks you can expect to hear no difference.

Of causes you Pay a big premium for "top of the chart" DACz.
But this tells you nothing about actual quality. SINAD is good indicator if something is "wrong" or "bad" with a DAC. But you can absolutely not Differentiate the top of the Chart only by this number.

Some ware around 120db (more realistically 110) you can absolute stop caring about SINAD.

 

[tmtomh]

The performance is outstanding. You can get identical audible performance for a bit less money, but in the scheme of things not a lot less. It's a great unit, with state of the art noise, linearity, and jitter performance. $250 for a unit in good shape seems like a very good deal and value to me.

 

[damaged_goods]

If you don’t need EARC or some other new inputs... no reason to upgrade. there are many "Fully transparent" DACs with symmetrical outputs.
(you might have to add a USB isolator to some)
for as low as 100€

No matter if old or new if you spend 250 bucks you can expect to hear no difference.

Of causes you Pay a big premium for "top of the chart" DACz.
But this tells you nothing about actual quality. SINAD is good indicator if something is "wrong" or "bad" with a DAC. But you can absolutely not Differentiate the top of the Chart only by this number.

Some ware around 120db (more realistically 110) you can absolute stop caring about SINAD.

The X16 was around $500 new, that’s why I wonder how it compares to a new DAC for $250 today. Is it better to choose a higher quality DAC from a few years back or a cheaper but newer DAC?

The X16 seems to be a very transparent and well measuring DAC, and it got a good review here at ASR back when it was released in 2021.

 

[Lambda]

that’s why I wonder how it compares to a new DAC for $250 today. Is it better to choose a higher quality DAC from a few years back or a cheaper but newer DAC

As long as the work properly you will not hear any difference.

For how long they work wen can’t tell you. And Quality can be very subjective.
ASR Amir usualy only Measures Output "quality".

So a 9€ Casio is better then some mechanical Swiss watch.

I Personalty would chooses the old one and hope to get more Subjective Quality compared to the new "cost optimized" version that has same performance for less money.

 

[ZolaIII]

The X16 was around $500 new, that’s why I wonder how it compares to a new DAC for $250 today. Is it better to choose a higher quality DAC from a few years back or a cheaper but newer DAC?

The X16 seems to be a very transparent and well measuring DAC, and it got a good review here at ASR back when it was released in 2021.

You can get cheap to 110+ SINAD now day's with mid range AKM DAC and you really, really won't ever be able to hear difference. For headphone output stage in extremes you might but that's up to to purposely adopted stages and gain. Future more to drive power amplifier most amplifiers will have lower SNR (without noise) input rating so even if you introduce some noise (cable, connectors) DAC will still be above that and THD of speakers will still be much higher (even with best one's you could imagine). So you buy purposely what you need and when you need it it's not the thing that will make hear able difference (speakers are).

 

[pablolie]

Best would be to buy older still not discontinued one for which users reported least problems with. DAC chips didn't really improve much if any in last 3~4 years.

Agreed. They may have reached a perfection level that is impossible to discern other then through measurements over the last 20 years, quite possibly.

My main DACs are Benchmark DAC2HGC (stereo system), a JDS Labs Element 3 (home office), and a 2012-edition Arcam rPAC (work office). With headphones up to $1k, they are all equally revealing to me. I *know* there are measurable differences in SINAD, but they seem immaterial to me.

 

[damaged_goods]

You can get cheap to 110+ SINAD now day's with mid range AKM DAC and you really, really won't ever be able to hear difference. For headphone output stage in extremes you might but that's up to to purposely adopted stages and gain. Future more to drive power amplifier most amplifiers will have lower SNR (without noise) input rating so even if you introduce some noise (cable, connectors) DAC will still be above that and THD of speakers will still be much higher (even with best one's you could imagine). So you buy purposely what you need and when you need it it's not the thing that will make hear able difference (speakers are).

How about compared to the integrated DAC in the WiiM Ultra (which also measures well), do you believe there would be any audible improvement at all?

 

[ZolaIII]

Agreed. They may have reached a perfection level that is impossible to discern other then through measurements over the last 20 years, quite possibly.

My main DACs are Benchmark DAC2HGC (stereo system), a JDS Labs Element 3 (home office), and a 2012-edition Arcam rPAC (work office). With headphones up to $1k, they are all equally revealing to me. I *know* there are measurable differences in SINAD, but they seem immaterial to me.

$ 10 Apple EU dongle is up to the performance of ADI Fs 2 first gen at 50 mV output and who cares when it stops working, you buy another one not even thinking about it. This is just for example when you purposely need something.

 

[ZolaIII]

How about compared to the integrated DAC in the WiiM Ultra (which also measures well), do you believe there would be any audible improvement at all?

No! Eventually if you catch the ground loop once trough the unbalanced out but you resolve it with either isolator or shorter cable.

 

[A Surfer]

I sold my X16 for about that money a few years back when I moved to a Sonos system. The X16 is absolutely a well built and engineered piece of kit. I used it with Bluetooth exclusively and found it completely and utterly transparent.

Yes you could absolutely spend less, but the sonic performance, build quality, very good feature set in my mind makes the X16 at $250 still an easy to recommend buy.

 

[Steven Holt]

Buy the X16. I very much doubt that you will get a deal like that again.

 

[DVDdoug]

I don't claim to have "golden ears" but I never heard anything wrong the DAC built into my 1st CD player that I bought in 1985.

The ONLY time I ever heard a defect of difference with a "DAC" it was s noisy soundcard that made noise when the hard drive was accessed.

And I don't own a stand-alone DAC.

 

[Cbdb2]

The X16 was around $500 new, that’s why I wonder how it compares to a new DAC for $250 today. Is it better to choose a higher quality DAC from a few years back or a cheaper but newer DAC?

The X16 seems to be a very transparent and well measuring DAC, and it got a good review here at ASR back when it was released in 2021.

If it has the features you want, buy it. Im all for buying used gear. Good audio electronics have not advanced enough in the last few years to make an audible difference. So why not save %50. Im looking for a used Bryston right now. And less stuff going to the land fill.

 

[JeremyFife]

Hi, that just tells you not to spend more than 250: whether you get the X16 or a new DAC. You won't hear a difference either way.
Make sure you get the features you want.

Usual risks with second hand... what happens if there's a problem etc

 

[A Surfer]

Although one would hope that a well done DAC would have pretty solid longevity.

 

[Chrispy]

3-4 years would be significant how?