GR Research LGK 2.0 Speaker Review (A Joke)

[amirm]

I think it is perfectly fine to point out that it went to pieces at 86 dB, but I think it would have been best to test it at a lower dB levels, such as it might be used in a real world application of that speaker.

I listened to it at very modest level from 3 to 4 feet. On the right track, it heavily distorts. SPL level varied from 78 to 82 db on said track. It doesn't get more real life than this.

 

[Thomas_A]

It is certainly possible that a speaker that functions ok at 84 dB could go to pieces at 86 db. It's not a a matter of "should."

I think it is perfectly fine to point out that it went to pieces at 86 dB, but I think it would have been best to test it at a lower dB levels, such as it might be used in a real world application of that speaker. In the real world, such as that system being used as a computer speaker, the listening distance may be only be one half meter or less. My computer speakers cannot play at 86 dB at one meter without distortion.

Personally, I think he should have tried designing a system with 2 or 3 those full range 3" drivers (without a crossover, but apparently with a notch filter. Obviously the impedance of the individual drivers would have to be adjusted to run them in parallel.

Or he could have used a better 3 inch driver such as the 10F series Scan-Speak.

 

[Mark_A]

Or he could have used a better 3 inch driver such as the 10F series Scan-Speak.

From what I could find, the 10F is a 4" driver that sells for $113 online at Madisound. GR-Research sells the LGK 2.0 (3" driver) for $40. The !0F also has a pronounced on-axis high frequency rise that doesn't appear to be present in the LGK 2.0. Of course the 10F is not designed to be full range driver and is probably superior to the LGK in its intended range.

Scanspeak Discovery 10F/4424G, 4" Midrange 4 ohm

Scan-Speak 10F/4424G00 Discovery 4" Midrange in 4 ohms. The Discovery series is designed for the discerning audiophile customer. To meet the needs of this audience, several new technologies were developed with the goal of lowering distortion and damping in the speaker. The coated fiberglass cone...

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

LGK 2.0 Woofer | GR-Research

gr-research.com

 

[Mark_A]

Neither do your computer speakers cost over a thousand dollars (finished) or label themselves as "Giant Killers". Jim

You could put a $1 speaker in those real wood veneer cabinets with rounded edges (made for them by an outside firm) and it would cost $1,000. I think most people would build their own box for it.

I don't see the term "giant killer" on their website page for the driver or the finished speaker. Maybe he said that in a YouTube video, or something. I suppose none of you in your entire life have ever used any hyperbole. But it might be a pretty decent driver for $40. But he should have made a high impedance version that would allow it to be used in parallel with 2 drivers per box (maybe even 3).

The viciousness displayed by the audiophile community never ceases to amaze me. At least the guy apologized publicly to Amir and withdrew an earlier YouTube video.

 

[YSC]

It is certainly possible that a speaker that functions ok at 84 dB could go to pieces at 86 db. It's not a a matter of "should."

I think it is perfectly fine to point out that it went to pieces at 86 dB, but I think it would have been best to test it at a lower dB levels, such as it might be used in a real world application of that speaker. In the real world, such as that system being used as a computer speaker, the listening distance may be only be one half meter or less. My computer speakers cannot play at 86 dB at one meter without distortion.

Personally, I think he should have tried designing a system with 2 or 3 those full range 3" drivers (without a crossover, but apparently with a notch filter. Obviously the impedance of the individual drivers would have to be adjusted to run them in parallel.

from the marketing material it doesn't seem to be the only intended use case, you need to kill giants you need to extend lower to reproduce some bass at least on their own, and when as mentioned by Danny to play them wonderfully with a few subwoofers, you more than likely won't be able to put them on a desk at very near field, unless you somehow like to put your desk in the middle of a room for no reason..

 

[YSC]

You could put a $1 speaker in those real wood veneer cabinets with rounded edges (made for them by an outside firm) and it would cost $1,000. I think most people would build their own box for it.

I don't see the term "giant killer" on their website page for the driver or the finished speaker. Maybe he said that in a YouTube video, or something. I suppose none of you in your entire life have ever used any hyperbole. But it might be a pretty decent driver for $40. But he should have made a high impedance version that would allow it to be used in parallel with 2 drivers per box (maybe even 3).

The viciousness displayed by the audiophile community never ceases to amaze me. At least the guy apologized publicly to Amir and withdrew an earlier YouTube video.

LGK 2.0 Kit (Pair) | GR-Research

gr-research.com

At long last, the “Little Giant Killer” returns!

in the first sentance of the page

 

[Mark_A]

LGK 2.0 Kit (Pair) | GR-Research

gr-research.com

At long last, the “Little Giant Killer” returns!

in the first sentance of the page

OK, they are called "little giant killer" not "giant killers" on the DIY kit (but not on the driver webpage, or the finished speaker webpage). I am sure that this is the only exaggeration in the history of commerce since the beginning of time.

Notice the DIY kit is only $290, not over $1,000 (the price of real wood veneer finished pair).

 

[Mark_A]

from the marketing material it doesn't seem to be the only intended use case, you need to kill giants you need to extend lower to reproduce some bass at least on their own, and when as mentioned by Danny to play them wonderfully with a few subwoofers, you more than likely won't be able to put them on a desk at very near field, unless you somehow like to put your desk in the middle of a room for no reason..

I have a Logitech computer speaker system with a single driver per side (left and right) and separate subwoofer module that is about 1 foot cubed. If a subwoofer were used with the LGK 2.0, the main left/right speaker boxes could be very small.

 

[YSC]

I have a Logitech computer speaker system with a single driver and separate subwoofer module that is about 1 foot cubed.

Which isn’t marketed as a little giant killer which out performs a lot of larger speakers.

I only refer to Danny’s demo video, if he marketed it as a good desktop speaker then ok, I will say it’s pretty good, but sadly he didn’t, and when the company marketing it to be used in junction with 4 huge subwoofers you better make it perform with reasonable SPL at the respective distance.

When it can’t do, just don’t market it as the little giant killer. It’s not only GR research, if the favourite brands here like genelec or Neumann or revel do similar stuffs, say got out a bookshelf monitor like 8030 or kh 120 and say they are tower speaker killer their lack of SPL in bass will be bashed here also.

 

[tvih]

Notice the DIY kit is only $290, not over $1,000 (the price of real wood veneer finished pair).

Naming/marketing conventions (what exactly do you think the LGK refers to?) aside it's not like the 290 for the kit is particularly cheap either since you can buy finished speakers with better performance for that price.

 

[Mark_A]

Which isn’t marketed as a little giant killer which out performs a lot of larger speakers.

I only refer to Danny’s demo video, if he marketed it as a good desktop speaker then ok, I will say it’s pretty good, but sadly he didn’t, and when the company marketing it to be used in junction with 4 huge subwoofers you better make it perform with reasonable SPL at the respective distance.

When it can’t do, just don’t market it as the little giant killer. It’s not only GR research, if the favourite brands here like genelec or Neumann or revel do similar stuffs, say got out a bookshelf monitor like 8030 or kh 120 and say they are tower speaker killer their lack of SPL in bass will be bashed here also.

The marketing lies on Amazon for my Logitech Z623 computer speakers far exceed any exaggeration from GR Research about the LGK 2.0:

• 400 Watt Home Speaker System {really?]
• 200 Watts RMS power [give me an f-ing break, at what distortion level and frequency is that?]
• deliver sound big enough to fill even large entertainment rooms [I don't think so]
• Works with any device with either a headphone jack (3.5 millimeter) or RCA input. [the output level of the headphone jack is so pathetic that it won't even drive the most efficient headphones to decent levels, as many buyers have complained about]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003VAHYTG/?tag=nydnbr-20&th=1

Personally, I don't pay attention to marketing claims, especially from Danny. After all the guy sells somewhat expensive cables that are probably no better than Amazon Basics cables. When he claimed that speaker cables laying on the carpet (not lifted) pick up static electricity, I almost lost it. But I don't think Danny is exactly unique in the audiophile business to make exaggerated claims.

 

[Mark_A]

Naming/marketing conventions (what exactly do you think the LGK refers to?) aside it's not like the 290 for the kit is particularly cheap either since you can buy finished speakers with better performance for that price.

OK, you got me on that one (LGK). See my comments on advertising claims.

However, it is possible that the LGK 2.0 might be the best $40 full range driver around. I just think you need more than one per side.

 

[YSC]

OK, you got me on that one (LGK). See my comments on advertising claims.

However, it is possible that the LGK 2.0 might be the best $40 full range driver around. I just think you need more than one per side.

When you eventually need 2 or more drivers per side, any reason to go for full range drivers and not woofer tweeter config? The whole point for full range drivers are for point source. Which using more drivers isn’t a point source anyway

 

[Everett T]

You could put a $1 speaker in those real wood veneer cabinets with rounded edges (made for them by an outside firm) and it would cost $1,000. I think most people would build their own box for it.

I don't see the term "giant killer" on their website page for the driver or the finished speaker. Maybe he said that in a YouTube video, or something. I suppose none of you in your entire life have ever used any hyperbole. But it might be a pretty decent driver for $40. But he should have made a high impedance version that would allow it to be used in parallel with 2 drivers per box (maybe even 3).

The viciousness displayed by the audiophile community never ceases to amaze me. At least the guy apologized publicly to Amir and withdrew an earlier YouTube video.

For the same price range this Mark Audio driver would have faired much better.

Markaudio Alpair-5 Gen.3 Gold 3" Full Range

Markaudio Alpair-5 Gen.3 Gold 3" Full Range

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

 

[Mark_A]

When you eventually need 2 or more drivers per side, any reason to go for full range drivers and not woofer tweeter config? The whole point for full range drivers are for point source. Which using more drivers isn’t a point source anyway

I don't claim to be an expert on this, but the reason for a single driver (or multiple single drivers) is to eliminate the crossover network. When you look at what many kit manufacturers (and some finished speaker companies like Tekton) charge for super high quality crossover components, presumably because they measure better and sound better, then even better would to completely eliminate the need for a crossover.

I personally don't put much stock in the idea of a point source. That would likely create a soundstage that is quite short. As far as imaging goes, if multiple drivers are properly aligned in a vertical manner, then imaging on a multi-driver speaker should do fine.

But for high quality music playback, I think at least a 2-way system is needed, or a single driver plus sub-woofer.

 

[Mark_A]

For the same price range this Mark Audio driver would have faired much better.

Markaudio Alpair-5 Gen.3 Gold 3" Full Range

Markaudio Alpair-5 Gen.3 Gold 3" Full Range

www.madisoundspeakerstore.com

You may be right, I don't really know. But that doesn't make GR Research a bad company. If only the very best products or services are allowed to be sold, then there would be a lot of unemployed people around.

I guess that the head of GR and Amir got into some kind of spat, and GR removed their YouTube video that criticized Amir, and then GR issued a new video where he apologized to Amir. I don't know the details because I didn't see the original GR YouTube video where he criticized Amir. It's hard to believe that adults are really doing this about some speakers.

 

[Mark_A]

When my mechanic tells me I need a new fuel pump, is that "vicious"?
If an inspector points out sub-code installations in a house, is that "vicious"?
When witnesses offer information so that cops can apprehend a thief, is that "vicious"?

Some people use the word "vicious" to describe anything and anyone that does no agree with them, does not foster and subsidized their ways, and does not excuse their slipshod thinking. Some people want to get away with anything that they can, and they are really irritated by efforts that thwart them.

And do you know what it is that does not agree with them? Do you know what does not foster and subsidize their ways? Do you know what does not excuse their slipshod ways of thinking?

The truth. Reality. It stands alone. It is not subject to interpretation, but only discovery, and that through science. It is not pejorative, but dispassionate. Most importantly, it does not play favorites and does not bend to your will.

And that's why many people hate the truth, why they denigrate it and treat it with scorn. That's why they call it "vicious". No matter how much smoke-and-mirrors, no matter how many obfuscations, the truth is still there. It's a stumbling-block to liars, and a lantern in the darkness of ignorance. Truth doesn't "play their game".

So if you think that people who advocate truth are "vicious", here or anywhere else, maybe you need to change sides in life.

Jim Taylor

You may advocate truth all you want, and you are certainly free to do so. But I don't understand the viciousness toward GR Research about a $40 3" speaker driver. 90% of the stuff sold on Amazon is crap and most of it has false advertising, and a fair amount of it is counterfeit.

The idea that because you don't like the LGK 2.0 speakers (perfectly within your rights to decide for yourself) means that you are somehow representing truth, reality, and the American way (or whatever country you are from) is one of the most bombastic claims I have ever heard.

I was just suggesting that people realize it is just a speaker, and not the devil incarnate, and maybe we should act more like civilized adults and move on to find some better products.

 

[YSC]

I don't claim to be an expert on this, but the reason for a single driver (or multiple single drivers) is to eliminate the crossover network. When you look at what many kit manufacturers (and some finished speaker companies like Tekton) charge for super high quality crossover components, presumably because they measure better and sound better, then even better would to completely eliminate the need for a crossover.

I personally don't put much stock in the idea of a point source. That would likely create a soundstage that is quite short. As far as imaging goes, if multiple drivers are properly aligned in a vertical manner, then imaging on a multi-driver speaker should do fine.

But for high quality music playback, I think at least a 2-way system is needed, or a single driver plus sub-woofer.

super high quality cross over components are mostly... gimmicks, some are used for longevity or handling of extreme current at high SPL, but scientifically looking at it for most kit manufacturers to sell super expensive crossover is because
1) it sounds great, good for marketing for those "seeking for perfection on every part. money no object"
2) it makes more money.

if you see the crossover of great tower speakers you would be surprised about how cheap the components are.

Crossover is only use to roll off the driver outside of it's comfort zone, and to match the driver response accordingly

 

[YSC]

You may advocate truth all you want, and you are certainly free to do so. But I don't understand the viciousness toward GR Research about a $40 3" speaker driver. 90% of the stuff sold on Amazon is crap and most of it has false advertising, and a fair amount of it is counterfeit.

The idea that because you don't like the LGK 2.0 speakers (perfectly within your rights to decide for yourself) means that you are somehow representing truth, reality, and the American way (or whatever country you are from) is one of the most bombastic claims I have ever heard.

I was just suggesting that people realize it is just a speaker, and not the devil incarnate, and maybe we should act more like civilized adults and move on to find some better products.

well, if there isn't the endless defending of the speaker it won't stay on the front page for so long, it is NOT the only speaker gets bashed here for poor measurement, but most just don't have a fan base to keep arguing it's actually a great speaker.

Remember the GR research XLS Encore? and the Klipsch RP600 mod from GR research? they actually gets positive review here in ASR, by Amirm himself, it's not a crusade against Danny, it's an opposition to the claim that this particular product is great, fantastic or ok etc.

IMO it is the scientific way, providing evidence and debate on the fact of the specific thing, not brand image defending.

 

[Everett T]

You may be right, I don't really know. But that doesn't make GR Research a bad company. If only the very best products or services are allowed to be sold, then there would be a lot of unemployed people around.

I guess that the head of GR and Amir got into some kind of spat, and GR removed their YouTube video that criticized Amir, and then GR issued a new video where he apologized to Amir. I don't know the details because I didn't see the original GR YouTube video where he criticized Amir. It's hard to believe that adults are really doing this about some speakers.

I was just pointing out there are other drivers Danny could have used and achieved much better performance. We know that Danny didn't have the driver's made for him but he picked them up in a large closeout.

I've heard many good speakers Danny has designed, I'm just not foolish enough to not understand what his MO is when it comes to stuff like this.

You may advocate truth all you want, and you are certainly free to do so. But I don't understand the viciousness toward GR Research about a $40 3" speaker driver. 90% of the stuff sold on Amazon is crap and most of it has false advertising, and a fair amount of it is counterfeit.

The idea that because you don't like the LGK 2.0 speakers (perfectly within your rights to decide for yourself) means that you are somehow representing truth, reality, and the American way (or whatever country you are from) is one of the most bombastic claims I have ever heard.

I was just suggesting that people realize it is just a speaker, and not the devil incarnate, and maybe we should act more like civilized adults and move on to find some better products.

It's just a speaker? Sure it is, three things it is not
1) a giant killer.
2) a good speaker
3) most importantly, not even close to the price it is worth. A pic is worth a 1k words