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GR Research LGK 2.0 Speaker Review (A Joke)

Rate this speaker:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 344 88.0%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 34 8.7%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther

    Votes: 6 1.5%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 7 1.8%

  • Total voters
    391

Thomas_A

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From what I could find, the 10F is a 4" driver that sells for $113 online at Madisound. GR-Research sells the LGK 2.0 (3" driver) for $40. The !0F also has a pronounced on-axis high frequency rise that doesn't appear to be present in the LGK 2.0. Of course the 10F is not designed to be full range driver and is probably superior to the LGK in its intended range.

Yes, it is a bit bigger when I looked at it. However, the effective cone diameter is 2.68 inch, and it is close to my "3-inch" speakers of 2.55 inch effective diameter. My 5-inch mid woofer has an effective diameter of 4.25 inch, so a true 4-inch woofer would be around 3.40 inch diameter and a 3-inch around 2.55 in effective diameter. With some filter for the rise at HF it would certainly suitable for a more competent speaker.
 
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Mark_A

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And yours on my ethics was? Don't make up facts that have no basis and you will be good. Otherwise, you are going after the one thing I cherish the most, and practice all the time on this site.
When did I ever question your ethics or make up facts?

What I did question is 47 pages of comments (not by you, but by others) attacking the LGK 2.0 as if it is ruining the audio industry and is a complete fraud by GR-Research and it's owner (I forgot the guys name). Yes, the LGK has a lot of problems, especially when expected to be a used at realistic listening levels, but it is not snake-oil.

I do agree, however, that GR-Research is damaging the audio industry (or more accurately damaging consumers) with products like cable lifters and other snake-oil products. However, the audio industry was already ruined by dozens of other companies and YouTube reviewers who have pushed that kind of crap (including outrageously expensive cables and audio ethernet switches) long before GR-Research. Regardless of the problems of the LGK 2.0, I don't put that product in the same category as the snake-oil products.
 

Mark_A

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Yes, it is a bit bigger when I looked at it. However, the effective cone diameter is 2.68 inch, and it is close to my "3-inch" speakers of 2.55 inch effective diameter. My 5-inch mid woofer has an effective diameter of 4.25 inch, so a true 4-inch woofer would be around 3.40 inch diameter and a 3-inch around 2.55 in effective diameter. With some filter for the rise at HF it would certainly suitable for a more competent speaker.
I am sure that the 10F is a very competent speaker, and at $113 for the raw driver, it should be.
 

Doodski

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When did I ever question your ethics or make up facts?

What I did question is 47 pages of comments (not by you, but by others) attacking the LGK 2.0 as if it is ruining the audio industry and is a complete fraud by GR-Research and it's owner (I forgot the guys name). Yes, the LGK has a lot of problems, especially when expected to be a used at realistic listening levels, but it is not snake-oil.

I do agree, however, that GR-Research is damaging the audio industry (or more accurately damaging consumers) with products like cable lifters and other snake-oil products. However, the audio industry was already ruined by dozens of other companies and YouTube reviewers who have pushed that kind of crap (including outrageously expensive cables and audio ethernet switches) long before GR-Research. Regardless of the problems of the LGK 2.0, I don't put that product in the same category as the snake-oil products.
A interesting thought exercise would be to place yourself in a position of retailing and servicing home audio product for decades and dealing with the plentitude of thousands+ customers that come your way and ask questions about snake oil purveyors like Danny @ GR Research. It wastes your time and is a absolute farce. It gets so bad that one really wants to just tell them to wake the F&^% up and get with the program and stop with the rubbish products and look at something good. I called it F&^% OFF syndrome in that everyone of these dumb doofuses want to be coddled and treated with velvet gloves while they believe a snake like Danny and want you to explain it all for them. Of course you never tell them what a dumb prick they are and you patiently explain in the hope you make a friend and a customer out of them.

You persist in your continual mind spin and making up more and more, "What about'isms" that are a waste of everybody's time.
 

Rick Sykora

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Am trying a Peerless NE123-8 in the LGK2’s cabinet. Madisound had them on sale. It is more than twice the price but 3 times the Xmax of the LGK2 driver.

Even the Dayton drivers have at least twice the Xmax of the LGK driver and are more comparably priced. GR’s has had supplier quality issues lately and the original Xmax spec for the LGK driver was 2.5 mm and was later downgraded to 1. Combine that with a the small cone profile and you have a recipe for the bass distortion levels that Amir encountered.
 

Mark_A

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Well, there's a contradictory statement if I ever saw one! Jim
There are lots of speakers that have problems. Are they also snake-oil? Are you comparing the LGK 2.0 with cable lifters and cables that costs thousands of dollars for relatively short runs?
 

Mark_A

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A interesting thought exercise would be to place yourself in a position of retailing and servicing home audio product for decades and dealing with the plentitude of thousands+ customers that come your way and ask questions about snake oil purveyors like Danny @ GR Research. It wastes your time and is a absolute farce. It gets so bad that one really wants to just tell them to wake the F&^% up and get with the program and stop with the rubbish products and look at something good. I called it F&^% OFF syndrome in that everyone of these dumb doofuses want to be coddled and treated with velvet gloves while they believe a snake like Danny and want you to explain it all for them. Of course you never tell them what a dumb prick they are and you patiently explain in the hope you make a friend and a customer out of them.

You persist in your continual mind spin and making up more and more, "What about'isms" that are a waste of everybody's time.
Several people on this forum, including Amir, have complemented Danny for at least some of his speaker kits and/or crossover mods. Are they also engaged in mind spin, or do you just enjoy attacking me?

Personally, I have never purchased or listened to any of Danny's products, and probably never will, because I am not into kit building anymore, and not into speaker mods.

My speaker cables are from Home Depot bulk cable I purchased about 35 years ago, which is 14 gauge clear-casing speaker cable priced by the foot. I soldered some decent but inexpensive speaker cable connectors onto them using regular solder. So I won't be buying any speaker cable form Danny either.
 

Mark_A

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Am trying a Peerless NE123-8 in the LGK2’s cabinet. Madisound had them on sale. It is more than twice the price but 3 times the Xmax of the LGK2 driver.

Even the Dayton drivers have at least twice the Xmax of the LGK driver and are more comparably priced. GR’s has had supplier quality issues lately and the original Xmax spec for the LGK driver was 2.5 mm and was later downgraded to 1. Combine that with a the small cone profile and you have a recipe for the bass distortion levels that Amir encountered.
As I said previously, if I were to try and build a speaker system with a driver that handled the entire frequency range (obviating the need for a crossover), I would try and put as many of them together in parallel as I could in the same box, but taking into account the impedance issues involved when wiring speakers in parallel.
 

Jim Taylor

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Are you comparing the LGK 2.0 with ...... cables that costs thousands of dollars for relatively short runs?

Yes. Many of the cable are criticized because they cost too much for what they are, as the LGKs cost too much for what they are. Not only that, but most of the exotic cables claim things that they don't deliver; they're over-hyped. The LGKs are the same way; "Giant Killers" is something that they definitely aren't. They're over-hyped.

Just because something has problems doesn't mean it's snake-oil. But products that are advertised as offering something that they can't deliver, and products that cost all out of proportion to standards on the market while not showing tests and measurements for proof of claims are examples of snake oil.

In that sense, yes, the LGKs are snake oil. Jim

p.s. - please note that the original "snake oil" was an elixir sold in the 1800's as having cure-all properties. It's not that it didn't do anything. It actually had active ingredients. But those ingredients didn't have anything to do with the claims, so it was classified as a fake.

iu
 
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Curvature

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There are lots of speakers that have problems. Are they also snake-oil? Are you comparing the LGK 2.0 with cable lifters and cables that costs thousands of dollars for relatively short runs?
The speaker isn't the snake oil. The GR promises, comparisons and product positioning are.

Snake oil is one step too far into aggressive marketing, where truth becomes more of a condiment.

You think you're being objective by stepping past claims, intentions, illusions and delusions, and looking at the thing in itself, but you're not.
 

Rick Sykora

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As I said previously, if I were to try and build a speaker system with a driver that handled the entire frequency range (obviating the need for a crossover), I would try and put as many of them together in parallel as I could in the same box, but taking into account the impedance issues involved when wiring speakers in parallel.

Ok, but this thread is about the LGK 2.0...

If you want to talk about how you might design something different, please consider starting your own thread. Btw, if you want to start adding drivers to a vented enclosure, know that you will need a bigger box. In the simple case, adding one more driver, typically means doubling the cabinet volume.
 

restorer-john

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Regardless of the problems of the LGK 2.0, I don't put that product in the same category as the snake-oil products.

It is marketed as a 'little giant killer'* loudspeaker and sold for a not-inconsiderable amount of money, for which you could obtain numerous better (and cheaper) speakers. That firmly puts the product into the snake-oil category.

*In other words: outperforming speakers at multiple times its price.
 

YSC

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When did I ever question your ethics or make up facts?

What I did question is 47 pages of comments (not by you, but by others) attacking the LGK 2.0 as if it is ruining the audio industry and is a complete fraud by GR-Research and it's owner (I forgot the guys name). Yes, the LGK has a lot of problems, especially when expected to be a used at realistic listening levels, but it is not snake-oil.

I do agree, however, that GR-Research is damaging the audio industry (or more accurately damaging consumers) with products like cable lifters and other snake-oil products. However, the audio industry was already ruined by dozens of other companies and YouTube reviewers who have pushed that kind of crap (including outrageously expensive cables and audio ethernet switches) long before GR-Research. Regardless of the problems of the LGK 2.0, I don't put that product in the same category as the snake-oil products.
When a product is marketed way above what it does, and even have a defensive video saying it’s perfect and no miss, yet selling for considerable price, it is snake oil.

In a sense ultra thick fancy cables with direction arrows works perfectly in their real job, just costing thousands
 

Mark_A

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Ok, but this thread is about the LGK 2.0...

If you want to talk about how you might design something different, please consider starting your own thread. Btw, if you want to start adding drivers to a vented enclosure, know that you will need a bigger box. In the simple case, adding one more driver, typically means doubling the cabinet volume.
The LGK 2.0 is sold as a bare driver, driver plus electronics/connectors, and as a completed and fully finished speaker system. The speaker box can also be purchased separately. So I didn't know that a discussion of the LGK 2.0 bare driver was off-topic, especially since I was responding to your post regarding the using the LGK 2.0 speaker box with a different driver.

Yes, I am very much aware of considerations regarding the box size and the driver (or drivers) in a ported design (or even in an sealed enclosure), especially for optimum bass performance. But I can't respond to that without apparently being off-topic, so I will pass.
 

Doodski

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The LGK 2.0 is sold as a bare driver, driver plus electronics/connectors, and as a completed and fully finished speaker system. The speaker box can also be purchased separately. So I didn't know that a discussion of the LGK 2.0 bare driver was off-topic, especially since I was responding to your post regarding the using the LGK 2.0 speaker box with a different driver.

Yes, I am very much aware of considerations regarding the box size and the driver (or drivers) in a ported design (or even in an sealed enclosure), especially for optimum bass performance. But I can't respond to that without apparently being off-topic, so I will pass.
I apologize for being snarky towards you yesterday. I was working on ~<5 hours of sleep and I was dozing at my PC all day and was grumpy. I'm not usually that way and it was out of character for me.
 

Rick Sykora

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The LGK 2.0 is sold as a bare driver, driver plus electronics/connectors, and as a completed and fully finished speaker system. The speaker box can also be purchased separately. So I didn't know that a discussion of the LGK 2.0 bare driver was off-topic, especially since I was responding to your post regarding the using the LGK 2.0 speaker box with a different driver.

Yes, I am very much aware of considerations regarding the box size and the driver (or drivers) in a ported design (or even in an sealed enclosure), especially for optimum bass performance. But I can't respond to that without apparently being off-topic, so I will pass.

Suggest you spend a bit more time reading more on ASR and this thread and get a handle on how ASR operates. If you had done so on this thread, you would know that have a LGK2 cabinet because I acquired and built the speaker for Amir to test. He only listens to one, so I have the spare parts. If you want to know more, see my build thread that he references in the initial post.

Am not here to endorse or defend Danny except on facts. Not only did he not publish all the LGK driver parameters originally, as I mentioned earlier, he lowered Xmax significantly. This occurred right around the same time as Amir's review. Since you apparently know speaker design, you can draw own conclusions. Just in case you had not seen, here is my exchange with Danny from earlier this year...

1657823160501.png


If you check the GR website, here are the params now:

Sd: 30.78 sq. cm
Diameter: 62.61 mm
X-Max 1 mm
Max peak power full range: 30 watts.
Max peak power with first two octaves removed: 60 watts

Xmax has been lowered and, in case you missed, he added a conditional power rating (that as not posted originally either). In any case, both through Amir's testing and Bassbox Pro modeling, we have shown that the driver is not able to handle anything close to 30 watts.
 
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voodooless

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Xmax has been lowered and
That bastard! That basically confirms everything. 1mm would give it about 78 dB at 100 Hz (with probably somewhere around 10% THD), and 90 dB at 200 Hz. That's roughly what Amir's graph shows (it gains a bit around 100Hz due to the BR).
 
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