Rick went above and beyond to add padding on his own dime. You can't ask for more.
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GR Research LGK 2.0 Speaker Review (A Joke)
- Thread starter amirm
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BrokenEnglishGuy
Major Contributor
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...rez?
Material to line the interior of the cabinet to stop resonances. It is "usually" included in all of his recommendations like the tube connectors.
Per the designer.…
”There's not a lot of room for Norez and the cabinets are already pretty solid. We recommend lining the walls with fiberglass insulation or polyfill so long as you keep the port opening clear.”
I just hope to change your mind one day.
You haven't heard my system and you're making assumptions on the performance (referring to distortion and noise). I understand that these assumptions are based on prior knowledge about tube amplifiers and fullrange drivers. I can't fault you for that, you're being wise. But you know the expression "judging a book by its cover".
I understand that audiophiles are buying equipment based on recommendation and reviews. It's frustrating that you cannot drive to a shop and audition any speaker you'd like so that you can make a choice based on personal experience. So everyone is pretty much buying equipment blind. A forum like AudioScienceReview seeks to accurately predict the behaviour and performance of speakers based on measurements so that consumers can make informed purchases. This is backed by subjective listening tests.
I want to purpose an alternative mindset for making informed purchasing decisions based on personnal experiences. I hope that someday we could organise audiophile listening sessions in our homes with the intention of sampling many types of equipment, sharing advice and discovering new music. In a nutshell: Meetup for audiophiles.
Just imagine a listening session with the GR Research LGK 2.0. It would be informative to pinpoint the flaws in real time to educate people on distortion.
I would gladly show you my system, and I'm just as interested in hearing your system. You could also show me your VST plugins (I never knew it existed before).
I just want people to say stuff like "Tube amplifiers are not for me, but some people really love them" instead of: "Tube amplifiers are not worth your time or money, buy this amplifier instead". Because what if I like the tube amplifier more? I would be shooting myself in the foot for buying the "objectively" better transistor amp.
I say that building a speaker system is very personal. I cherry picked each component with a goal in mind. And I'm aware that you would have bought a different system given the same budget.
Furthermore, audiophile Meetup would be boring AF if everyone had the exact same system. Just sayin'
DanielT
Major Contributor
Anyone can test that, distortion.
There are lots of gadgets with sounds that distort and distort sharply if you turn up the volume a lot. Your Tablet, a bad old car stereo, clock radio and so on. This is also experienced by those who are not really interested in sound / HiFi because they, all of us, get pain in the ears fairly immediately and more or less headaches from that sound.
On the contrary a system,with sensible FR and low distortion, you can turn the volume a lot and think it sounds good. Even then fascinatingly high volume.
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Ok, I get what you're saying with the Google Nest Mini. It sounds pretty terrible at high volumes.Anyone can test that, distortion.
There are lots of gadgets with sounds that distort and distort sharply if you turn up the volume a lot. Your Tablet, a bad old car stereo, clock radio and so on. This is also experienced by those who are not really interested in sound / HiFi because they, all of us, get pain in the ears fairly immediately and more or less headaches from that sound.
On the contrary a system,with sensible FR and low distortion, you can turn the volume a lot and think it sounds good. Even then fascinatingly high volume.
And yeah, I blew my ears out without knowing at a Justice concert in Versailles. They used line arrays which sounded incredibly clean (and lots of flashing lights). I underestimated the volume of the show. The sensory overload afterwards was nauseating. It felt like being buzzed on 10 shots of espresso and being deaf.
But, these are extreme examples which cause physical discomfort. Distortion is much less noticeable at lower % and lower volumes. I'm basically saying that it would be interesting to train people's ears to better choose speakers.
DanielT
Major Contributor
Speaking of audio and HiFi. A little OT for this thread but it still touches on the topic of distortion. A thread about why good sound reproduction among the general public nowadays does not seem to be a priority:
Ordinary mortals do not care how it sounds as long as the sound does not crackle, scratch, roar, distort difficultly and at least have a hint of bass (especially at low levels because they never raise the volume).
A smooth format / easy handling / reasonably stable software and that something can still be something that can be considered music is enough. I just compared Sweden's perhaps best-selling speakers: Sonos One, with another multi-room speaker and it's almost ridiculous how poor sound quality it exhibits: for SEK 2,550 ($ 255) you get a clearly limited spread of the sound, uneven treble and a layer of clear high-frequency distortion from the Class D amplifier TI TPA 3116. However, the worst thing is that anyone notices that if you raise just slightly above the background level, all the bass really disappears (so as not to damage the tiny 3.5-inch speaker element).
I have noted in various reviews that many cuckoos seriously believe that this is HiFi.
It is very clear that the market has realized the unproblematic of forgetting true sound quality and that real sound systems are a thing of the past for the public, but for my own part I will donate my Sonos One to the neighbor who has already invested in their so-called ecosystem.
Edit:
BUT despite that, I talked to a HiFi dealer last year. He said that young people, at least in Sweden, can invest quite a lot of money in getting ..good? or at least a lot of sound in their cars. So it may not be completely over for sensible HiFi in the future. Those young people they get older will then buy sensible home HiFi. A hypothesis on my part.
In addition, it is now possible to get really good HiFi, for a little money, if you just want to.
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I've seen everything.
There is person whose name sounds like Coca-Cola
Speaking about Concerts? I wish Dave Rat did most of the sound everywhere. I have heard his stuff and it sounds great live.
I can't say the same thing about the last KORN concert I went too.
I wonder if any of these people who set up the gear go out to the seats and Listen to it. I don't think they do. In fact, I think if they did? Someone would call the SPL cops.
Its one of the Reason I love small bars and Small venues. They take the time to really make sure the PA system sounds good. Lots of Bass and EVEN and BALANCED sound at these events.
Being LOUD is Meh. Anyone can do that. Making it sound like you are wearing Headphones? Or sitting in front of the fireplace with your warm glowing system while a female artists sings you to bliss? That's what should be the expectation.
So many are forgetting the TOTAL experience.
Something to note. A Well Balanced system will seem louder than just a High SPL system that just kills your ears and is by far WAY more enjoyable. You can even see it in the crowd.
As far as Good HiFi on a Budget? Hell yes. But even I have to admit that there are limits.
You either have LOTS of Drivers that are cheap and multiple ones of them playing at Low SPL like a Line Array.
But I still am not convinced there are any really GOOD cheap tweeters. When I say Cheap? I mean in the Under $50Pair.
The really good stuff is always $100 bucks each if you want to listen to anything above Live Concert levels if you want a driver that does not sound like a distorted mess after the end of a song.
All I'm saying is that IF you are going to go cheap? Forget about small bookshelf. And Forget about a 2 way system.
Yes, they can sound GOOD. But not like REVEL good. I might pick up a Pair of those just to try out that AMIR has just to see what the fuss is all about one day.
No matter what. The Low cost? Shoot me if you want. But even if you got all your drivers at cost? Your still going to spend about $10,000 either in time or Materials . There is just no way around it. Sure you can find ways in not spending hard earned cash.
Labor Ain't free. Unless your Immortal.
There is person whose name sounds like Coca-Cola
Speaking about Concerts? I wish Dave Rat did most of the sound everywhere. I have heard his stuff and it sounds great live.
I can't say the same thing about the last KORN concert I went too.
I wonder if any of these people who set up the gear go out to the seats and Listen to it. I don't think they do. In fact, I think if they did? Someone would call the SPL cops.
Its one of the Reason I love small bars and Small venues. They take the time to really make sure the PA system sounds good. Lots of Bass and EVEN and BALANCED sound at these events.
Being LOUD is Meh. Anyone can do that. Making it sound like you are wearing Headphones? Or sitting in front of the fireplace with your warm glowing system while a female artists sings you to bliss? That's what should be the expectation.
So many are forgetting the TOTAL experience.
Something to note. A Well Balanced system will seem louder than just a High SPL system that just kills your ears and is by far WAY more enjoyable. You can even see it in the crowd.
As far as Good HiFi on a Budget? Hell yes. But even I have to admit that there are limits.
You either have LOTS of Drivers that are cheap and multiple ones of them playing at Low SPL like a Line Array.
But I still am not convinced there are any really GOOD cheap tweeters. When I say Cheap? I mean in the Under $50Pair.
The really good stuff is always $100 bucks each if you want to listen to anything above Live Concert levels if you want a driver that does not sound like a distorted mess after the end of a song.
All I'm saying is that IF you are going to go cheap? Forget about small bookshelf. And Forget about a 2 way system.
Yes, they can sound GOOD. But not like REVEL good. I might pick up a Pair of those just to try out that AMIR has just to see what the fuss is all about one day.
No matter what. The Low cost? Shoot me if you want. But even if you got all your drivers at cost? Your still going to spend about $10,000 either in time or Materials . There is just no way around it. Sure you can find ways in not spending hard earned cash.
Labor Ain't free. Unless your Immortal.
bennybbbx
Addicted to Fun and Learning
the beaming is alot. I do tests with the presonus eris 3.5 without tweeter and eq so that it sound as wide band speaker. What i learn about this, it is important that the speakers is much angle inside so the axis go in middle of head. this sound best in clarity and stereo position but it reduce a little stereo width. All in all i like sound of 30 degree angle inside more. My guess it is because of crossfeed in ears. when a speaker is rotate not enough the crossfeed signal to other ear is reach with larger angle so the high freq of crossfeed sound more dull in other ear. then stereo location and clarity is not so good. If not happy with sound can try out to angle the speaker 30 degree inside. i use a measure app for handy so both have 30 degree inside in stereo triangle.
DanielT
Major Contributor
Hm, you have a point. Normally, it is these subjective Youtubers like Danny who howl about the big differences they can hear regarding in different, for example, cables. But as soon as someone challenges them with serious blind tests, it will be completely silent from their side. They have never taken any serious, independent blind tests. They claim something but can not prove it BUT in this case it is the opposite; Amir claims that distortion can be heard. It should be tested.I do not know how it will be done. Some kind of blind test, speakers, distortion and so on that is. In any case, if such a test can not be performed, it will only be considered imagination, what one hears.
By the way. Of course you hear distortion, the question is only when? Test yourself:
How Much Distortion Can you Hear?
An interesting test probably posted before although it didn't come up in a search. Also try difference sources ie ear phones vs speakers.
audiosciencereview.com
Edit:
Then after testing that , with the reservation that we are differently sensitive to different types of distortion at different frequencies ... but:
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DanielT
Major Contributor
To bring in some balance, regarding Danny and his creations:
Amir:
"Conclusions
The GR Research X-LS Encore DIY KIT build as I tested shows very good performance which with a bit of EQ, rose up to near excellent. Yes there are some technical errors in directivity but otherwise, good attempt has been made to produce near neutral presentation which is what we strive for.
I am happy to recommend the GR Research DIY Kit (sans all the voodoo tweaks he offers).
Much thanks to Rick for building this speaker and sending it to me. I hope you use his services if you don't want to build it yourself."
audiosciencereview.com
Amir:
"Conclusions
The GR Research X-LS Encore DIY KIT build as I tested shows very good performance which with a bit of EQ, rose up to near excellent. Yes there are some technical errors in directivity but otherwise, good attempt has been made to produce near neutral presentation which is what we strive for.
I am happy to recommend the GR Research DIY Kit (sans all the voodoo tweaks he offers).
Much thanks to Rick for building this speaker and sending it to me. I hope you use his services if you don't want to build it yourself."
GR Research X-LS Encore Kit Speaker Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the GR Research X-LS Encore DIY Kit speaker. It was kindly put together by member @Rick Sykora. You can see his build thread here: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/build-of-gr-research-x-ls-encore.14312/ The bare kit...
audiosciencereview.com
If you are a serious loudspeaker hobbyist, it has been long long ago that you have abandoned doing 3" FR systems for anything but amusing LF distortion demos.
As a side note, I think this is an EOL driver from Audio Nirvana in Missouri. I have a pair here from perhaps 6 years ago; have not yet built with them.
As a side note, I think this is an EOL driver from Audio Nirvana in Missouri. I have a pair here from perhaps 6 years ago; have not yet built with them.
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I have never seen a video of Danny's where I thought the measurements were not overly simplified just to sell his speaker treatments. I honestly think the guy could probably fix most any broken speaker you threw at him. Personally, I would love watching a video about that instead of yammering on about interference and needing some "no rez" to line the sides of the speakers. I get it..he needs to make a living. It is just a shtick and I feel like he has some real skill there.
mhardy6647
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Audio Nirvana (David Dicks) is the place (guy) who pushed Lowther twincones in bass reflex enclosures (maybe still does). Oy vey.
I hope everyone has read post #362. One of our esteemed members has put his reputation on the line. If it isn't what he says it is, then he is a fraud. But getting past that point, I had to give up my sit down strike named "Power to the Panther", as I got hungry and decided to get some food. Plus no one joined me. I was the only one sitting between the great unwashed masses of speaker buyers and a giant scam. Luckily, I put my big boy pants on, hiked them up and held the line, well, until I got hungry. You all can thank me later for sitting in the breach between ASR and a big fraud. Next time guys, give me some help. So again, Power to the Panther!
Yes, you guessed it. It is 1:44am and I can't sleep. I will pay tomorrow for not sleeping tonight.........
Yes, you guessed it. It is 1:44am and I can't sleep. I will pay tomorrow for not sleeping tonight.........
Ha, don't wind yourself up about junk panthers & junk speakers, it's not worth it!
I hope everyone reads post #233. We should find ways to explain discrepencies between GR Research's measurements and AudioScienceReview's measurements. I mean GR Research's reputation is on the line, they should strive to market competitive products. I feel like you're just burning GR Research at the stake (figuratively) because AudioScienceReview reviewed a dud. To be clear, I am fine with the "not recommended" conclusion. I just find it excessive to slander GR Research.
JSmith
Master Contributor
At first this looks radically different than what the company shows:
I have circled some of the reasons the two graphs look different. Danny is using improper and heavy filtering (1/3 octave) for his measurements. This gets rid of the myriad of variations you see in my graph. He also uses gated response to get rid of room reflections which in the process removes any resolution below a few hundred Hertz. This is why his graph starts at 200 Hz rather than 20 Hz.
JSmith
Unfortunately I think I’m the one who taught him to do that (use gated measurements) in the thread where he got me banned. I was pointing out how making acoustic adjustments is more beneficial for your dollar than having more expensive binding posts, cables and such and demonstrating it with measurements. It’s not optimal, but when you don’t have a Klippel or a really good anechoic chamber, it’s the best you can do. I remember that at one point he had claimed to have built an anechoic chamber in a garden shed. That literally makes no sense. I was banned before getting a chance to call him out on that. I was so busy logically and politely defending attacks by his followers which only seemed to make them all the crazier. I remember thinking how strange it was that in this day and age we still have cults.
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