Genelec Ones- Overpriced ?

[srrxr71]

The ease and of integrating the speaker with the room and the quality as a result is the compelling argument for me. Better result/$$ than trying to roll my own dac/amp/room control.

Yeah that goes back to that “being sure” psychologically argument. It gets complicated with hardware and software configurations. That problem is solved for you.

 

[srrxr71]

I also suppose it means the UI matters. GLM is surprisingly friendly (i’m looking at you Nokia) and easy to use.

You know the only thing you can screw up is the mic placement pretty much.

 

[Sebastiaan de Vries]

Like a gift that they even exist.

It’s funny on my side too I was an audiofool too.

I was student and I could afford only the NHT M-00. My first “active” (rather powered as it has a passive crossover) speaker.

I bought it as theoretically it makes sense to have the manufacturer mate the amp to the drivers. It was great.

So we were about to graduate and my buddy was about to marry this PhD in engineering. She definitely looked down on my audiofool ways. I was now hooked on the concept of active speakers but I was looking only at audiofool type manufacturers.

She convinced my buddy to buy Genelec. So he went and bought 1031s and subs.

I heard them at his house but I was not even slightly impressed. I went pro audio and bought a pair of Focal Solo 6be. I really liked those a lot. But the 1031 did my impress me.

Still I had Genelec on my radar. At some point I got the 8010. Loved them. They are limited but they were still amazing. But they had the issue that you can’t turn your head without the sonic character changing.

Then years later after having a pair of LSX and then LS50w finally I wanted a proper 3-way coaxial design.

So I ordered the 8341s. In 2020 they could not make enough of them. I had a 3 month wait for delivery.

In the meantime, however, I had to fly to a city with a Genelec experience center (at least that time it was branded so).

The first evening I made sure to go and listen. They had both 8341 and 8351 but the 8351 was set up.

They played some slower, older music.

My lord. OMG.

You can’t unhear it. You can’t ever forget that moment.

Like an IV direct into your amygdala. Straight into uncontrollable emotion. I tear up just remembering that moment.

I came back and after a few weeks the 8341 came.

Within 1 year I ended up with my current setup. There was nothing more important to me than to just go the all way with Genelec.

I guess it’s not “all the way” anymore but it’s enough.

I’ve burned so much money over the years buying all kinds of stuff. But this is worth every penny - the best value in audio. Performance I was not even capable of dreaming of.

I'm sorry for not getting back to you sooner. I caught COVID and wanted to be sure my head is clear when I respond. We have a lot in common. It is a mental process to decouple from the audiophile dogma (which I admit was deeply rooted in).

I remember working as a technician for over a decade in multiple nice control rooms. Hearing numerous Genelec 1031s under perfect circumstances (of course, as well various Dynaudio's which were popular at that time) and, of course, the NS10s... Hearing levels of details on CDs I knew so well, I couldn't admit it was superior to all my "high-end" stuff at home. So I kept investing tons of money in amplifiers and passive speakers (from well-known boutique brands).

At a point, I got the opportunity to try out at home the (for that time revolutionary) Dynaudio Air 8 and Dynaudio Air 15 with the base-2 air Sub. Again, I heard details, depth, and resolution I'd never heard before, yet I convinced myself, no.. class D amps, digital... it just can't be right, and again went back to my boutique Hi-Fi.

I don't know how well objective and relevant audio memory is, but this was simply one of the best systems I've ever heard at home. I eventually got "cured," and when I still lived in Europe, I finally went for the Focal SM8 digital speakers with JL audio subs, which were also an eye-opener (not as good as the Dynaudio Air by memory, but it was the way to go).

Then I moved to China, decided to put audio as a second priority, and bought relatively cost-efficient Magnepan 1.7s. This experience was pleasant (it had a solid midbass slam) and a wall of sound. But I always knew (felt, heard) something was off. So, believe it or not, I "upgraded" to the more significant 20.7's, which were massive in my room. They sounded muffled without DIRAC, and much was off, but the system came alive with DIRAC and the Benchmark AHB2 (great amplifiers!)

Unconsciously, I was trying to make the Magnepans sound like an excellent accurate studio monitor. Then, the plan arose to take the Magnepans apart and make them fully DSP active with the Trinnov.

Then by miracle, in the mall here in Shenzhen, there was this very well-designed Genelec booth. Small but reasonable damped, and there they stood in white, the 8351B. I usually never believe or feel listening to speakers in any store or demo room; the acoustics will dictate the most significant part of how it will sound. But this time, I had to listen to them; they looked so classy and inviting.

What happened then equals your experience. I put on the first track, "Dangerous," from Michael Jackson's album Dangerous. When the sampled snare hit, in such a profound, solid way from the center of the stage, so firmly in the mix, when I heard all the 90's synths in such a layered separation that I could even guess which sounds were factory presets, and which were tweaked, I was floored, goosebumps and in shock...

Back home, to the Magnepans, It didn't have any of this magic. It sounded typical "Hi-Fi" again, Polished and less revealing. For a few weeks, I keep coming back to the Genelec booth. I wanted to hear this.. wanna listen to that, and there was no escape. No matter what my thoughts are about the electronics inside an active speaker or that my Benchmark AHB2s are likely superior to any build amplifier, I heard and experienced something on the 8351B I always craved for and never had at home that this all didn't matter anymore. I kept thinking about this sound from the Genelecs every day, non-stop.

There was no escape, I bought them, and they didn't disappoint at home; I corrected with the Trinnov optimizer; it gave me all I heard in the store and exceeded it. After more than a year of living with them, they never stop to amaze me. I am still trying to understand how they present each mix. It's like you are playing detective, and every facet of the mix is laid out just before you. This is the end game for me from a company I believe in.

 

[srrxr71]

I'm sorry for not getting back to you sooner. I caught COVID and wanted to be sure my head is clear when I respond. We have a lot in common. It is a mental process to decouple from the audiophile dogma (which I admit was deeply rooted in).

I remember working as a technician for over a decade in multiple nice control rooms. Hearing numerous Genelec 1031s under perfect circumstances (of course, as well various Dynaudio's which were popular at that time) and, of course, the NS10s... Hearing levels of details on CDs I knew so well, I couldn't admit it was superior to all my "high-end" stuff at home. So I kept investing tons of money in amplifiers and passive speakers (from well-known boutique brands).

At a point, I got the opportunity to try out at home the (for that time revolutionary) Dynaudio Air 8 and Dynaudio Air 15 with the base-2 air Sub. I heard details, depth, and resolution I've never heard before, yet I convinced myself, no.. class D amps, digital... it just can't be right, and again went back to my boutique hi-fi.

I don't know how well objective and relevant audio memory is, but this was simply one of the best systems I've ever heard at home. I eventually got "cured", and when I still lived in Europe, I finally went for the Focal SM8 digital speakers with JL audio subs, which were also an eye-opener (not as good as the Dynaudio Air by memory, but it was the way to go).

Then I moved to China, decided to put audio as a second priority, and bought a relatively cost-efficient Magnepan 1.7s. This experience was pleasant (it had a solid midbass slam) and a wall of sound. But I always knew (felt, heard) something was off. Believe it or not, I "upgraded" to the more significant 20.7's which were massive in my room. They sounded muffled without DIRAC, and much was off, but the system came alive with DIRAC and the Benchmark AHB2 (great amplifiers!)

Unconsciously, I was trying to make the Magnepans sound like an excellent accurate studio monitor. The plan arose to take the Magnepans apart and make them fully DSP active with the Trinnov.

Then by miracle, in the mall here in Shenzhen, there was this very well-designed Genelec booth. Small but reasonable damped, and there they stood in white, the 8351B. I usually never believe or feel listening to speakers in any store or demo room; the acoustics will dictate the most significant part of how it will sound. But this time, I had to listen to them; they looked so classy and inviting.

What happened then equals your experience. I put on as the first track, "Dangerous" from Michael Jackson's album Dangerous. When the sampled snare hit, in such a profound, solid way from the center of the stage, so firmly in the mix, when I heard all the 90's synths in such a layered separation that I could even guess which sounds were factory presets, and which were tweaked, I was floored, goosebumps and in shock...

Back home, to the Magnepans, It didn't have any of this magic. It sounded typical "Hi-Fi" again, Polished and less revealing. For a few weeks, I keep coming back to the Genelec booth. I wanted to hear this.. wanna listen to that, and there was no escape. No matter what my thoughts are about the electronics inside an active speaker or that my Benchmark AHB2s are likely superior to any build amplifier, I heard and experienced something on the 8351B I always craved for and never had at home, that this all didn't matter anymore. I kept thinking about this sound from the Genelecs every day non-stop

There was no escape, I bought them, and they didn't disappoint. At home, I corrected with the Trinov Optimiser; it gave me all I heard in the store and exceeded it. After more than a year of living with them, they never stop to amaze me. I am still trying to understand how they present each mix. It's like you are playing detective, and every facet of the mix is laid out just in front of you. This is the end game for me from a company I truly believe in.

Oh yeah really they never fail to amaze me. I mean there have been a few listening sessions where they didn’t completely take over my emotional center. However with these new tweaks they seem to be very consistent.

When I travel I don’t listen to any music. AirPods just don’t sound good. My mind is always on getting back to sit in front of these Genelecs.

My first proper active was actually the Focal Solo 6be. They were really good. However you can’t sit too close and turn your head. Otherwise they were great.

I also had a passive system because the designer offered me a trade in. That was kind of a waste of time honestly. It was nice but nothing spectacular.

I’ve been through some monitors since then. There were a few years I would travel weekly so my portable hotel set up was a pair of 8010s.

However like you said with the 8351 - my first audition had them quite far apart. But the solidity of the center image blew my mind. I have personally never heard anything better.

 

[macmovieman]

My observations over the years are that manufacturers who sell primarily into the domestic market are keenly aware that the purchase price comes out of already-taxed individual income. Manufacturers who sell primarily into the legacy pro market are equally aware that the purchase price represents an instant tax deduction for the customer. A $20k item sold to a corporate organization "costs" $10k in the first year and eventually even less, depending on what depreciation scheme the bookkeeper operates.

Genelec, Neumann, Meyer, ATC, etc, etc, have been in the properly-funded pro market for at least a couple of generations, facing much less price sensitivity, so yes, I think their prices are somewhat baggy and complacent. It will be interesting to see what they do, as the legacy market fades away in favor of bedroom producers, who seem to react to pricing more like private consumers - even though they actually have the same bookkeeping possibilities as any other pro. Assuming they're making enough profit to be taxable, that is.

Fun fact: bookkeeper/bookkeeping are the only words in English to feature three consecutive pairs of repeated letters.

I really appreciate your comments and keep forgetting that this is a tax write off. I think I will be less sensitive to top line price.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Yeah but let's say KH310 vs 8351 both 3-way 8 inch

One has zero R&D overhead to be amortised, the speaker and drive units are good samples of the sort of thing we have been doing for >70 years.
The Ones are a new solution to the old "problem" of point source speakers and the cost of design and development of their unique drivers has to be paid for out of sales, obviously.

If you don't want to pay the extra for innovation, you don't have to since the other more conventional speakers are pretty good and are evidently going to be very much less expensive to make so can be sold at a lower price with the same margin.

IME of HiFi very much inferior speakers to the "Ones" are sold at far higher prices in the "high-end" market using BS marketing rather than sound engineering.

 

[holdingpants01]

One has zero R&D overhead to be amortised, the speaker and drive units are good samples of the sort of thing we have been doing for >70 years.

It's decades for this exact design as well, Neumann KH310 are refreshed Klein&Hummel O300 released 20 years ago, which were upgraded Klein&Hummel O198, which were upgraded O98, they could come from K&H OY model (small, closed box active 3 way design) and that's deep into the 1960s

 

[Infinit0]

I wouldnt say overprice. You are paying for a huge resale value and one of the BEST brands out there with a lot OF R&D. Plus coaxial and 3 way design and the most polished DSP(GLM). If Its worth It IS another story, probably price performance ratio nope because of the dimishing returns.

I mean. A pair of KH120II are 1750 EUR
For that money you get a pair of 8330

A pair of KH150 are 2900 EUR
You can get a pair of 8340

meanwhile a pair of 8331 is 4000 eur
So for that money with the options above you can add the microphone and one subwoofer

So for me, I LOVE the genelec ones but having in mind my budget they are not worth It. But if I have more money or for other perspective point of view they willl be worth It. So in the end It depends...

 

[holdingpants01]

I still think Neumann monitors are underpriced and are somewhat an oddball in comparison to the competition. The Ones are priced close to ATC, D&D, PMC, Kii etc. and Neumanns are much cheaper yet measure as good as any of these. I also prefer The Ones presentation rather than Neumanns, but it's not something that can be showed on measurements as it's very subjective

 

[Trell]

I wouldnt say overprice. You are paying for a huge resale value and one of the BEST brands out there with a lot OF R&D. Plus coaxial and 3 way design and the most polished DSP(GLM). If Its worth It IS another story, probably price performance ratio nope because of the dimishing returns.

I mean. A pair of KH120II are 1750 EUR
For that money you get a pair of 8330

A pair of KH150 are 2900 EUR
You can get a pair of 8340

meanwhile a pair of 8331 is 4000 eur
So for that money with the options above you can add the microphone and one subwoofer

So for me, I LOVE the genelec ones but having in mind my budget they are not worth It. But if I have more money or for other perspective point of view they willl be worth It. So in the end It depends...

The Genelec Ones are nice, but as you alluded to: Expensive.

A couple of years ago I got a pair of 8330A, one 7360A subwoofer, GLM Kit, Genelec L-stands, cables and change over for the price of a pair of 8331A. I'm sure that got me much better sound quality as with the subwoofer I got a much more even bass as I've some big bass valleys where my monitors are placed.

 

[robstalllion]

First post and you slam one of the best reviewed speakers on the site…welcome to ASR.
Let me guess, you wandered over from Gearspace?

Are you a genelec fanboy? I bet you think you know everything just by looking at measurements, huh?

 

[AdamG]

Are you a genelec fanboy? I bet you think you know everything just by looking at measurements, huh?

Um, er, pretty much. This is Audio Science Review. Measurements tell us how the device will perform. It’s not opinion or feelings. It’s just Science and Engineering. Do you know where you are exactly? You have been here long enough to absorb the culture. So your “looking at Measurements” attack is actually a compliment.

You are most welcome here and we would be happy to further your understanding of the Science and Engineering aspects of what we do here. Just drop the attitude and demonstrate some good faith intentions.

Thank you for your understanding and consideration.

 

[RobL]

Are you a genelec fanboy?

*checks avatar*
Yup, unabashed.

I bet you think you know everything just by looking at measurements, huh?

If you can hear it, a microphone or oscilloscope will detect it and it can be quantified.

 

[AdamG]

checks avatar

 

[YSC]

Are you a genelec fanboy? I bet you think you know everything just by looking at measurements, huh?

Er... I hope you know that most top vendors design using measurements to a large degree, and yes, reading the measurements do let you know a hack lot more than auditioning alone. and you have to do in room measurement to know if the issue you "found" is the speaker or it's you, who misconfigured the speaker.