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Genelec 8040B Versus Neumann KH150 Versus Neumann KH120 II, All to be used with Subwoofer

Albert190

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Until a few weeks ago, when I solicited the advice of members of this forum, I had been interested in purchasing the Dynaudio LYD 48 monitors to replace my Quad 12 active speakers for home use.

Members of this forum kindly pointed out some weaknesses in these speakers which has caused me to consider other options.

With the suggestion of a forum member, I'm now interested in buying the Genelec 8040B instead of the Dynaudio LYD 48's for home use.

I am not an audio engineer but someone who just appreciates the faithful reproduction of music in an accurate, transparent, neutral manner, and this is why I am looking at Pro Monitor speakers instead of consumer speakers.

I've performed a search through this forum to determine if a review has been performed in the past on the Genelec 8040B but have been unable to find such a review and thus am seeking the advice and assistance of the members of this forum regarding additional information and opinions with respect to these speakers.

Please note I would be using any speaker that I buy with a subwoofer that I already own with two 12 inch drivers and 1,000 watts of power.

I've tried the Neumann KH120 II, and very much liked the sound of these speakers but thought they were too small and was concerned about their ability to produce the peak SPL's I would require in my 11' X 20' living room.

Furthermore, and admittedly very sheepishly, I thought these very diminutive speakers, which I would place on floor stands, might look out of place in my living room as my main speakers for home use, which I know is not a great but superficial reason.

However, I also do have concerns about whether the 5-1/4 inch bass driver in the Neumann KH120 II speakers would provide me with the dynamic range I would want in a room of the above size, especially since I would be using any speakers I buy as mid-field speakers.

That being said, I do not play my audio system at a thunderous volume, but the music I listen to does have high SPL peaks that I would be concerned about.

I am also considering the Neumann KH150 speakers but cost to me is a consideration.

It would be of immense help to me if I could obtain some feedback on how the Genelec 8040B compares to the Neumann KH120 II and the KH150 speakers, and in addition, whether there are any other Pro Monitors that I should consider.

My listening position would be about 8 - 9 feet from the speakers.

The AVR receiver that I own has Audyssey which will allow me to EQ any speakers that I buy.

Thank you very much to all.
 
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unpluggged

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The Neumanns are the way to go. DSP makes a significant difference. The difference between KH 150 and KH 120 II is primarily their SPL capabilities end low-end extension, obviously. The tonality is mostly identical, as owners here report, but KH 150 has wider dispersion, IIRC.

For greater listening distances you'd better get the KH 150. For integrating them with your subwoofer (if you insist on skipping on an pair of KH 750 DSP and MA 1 room correction kit), you can use something like the miniDSP Flex. I would prefer going for the digital variant since the speakers have digital input. For connecting the subwoofer I'd get a cheap DAC in this case.
 

AudioJester

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I have the original KH120 and 8040B.
The 8040B will go louder and obviously has deeper bass. Have never felt the need to add a sub to my 8040B in a bedroom setup at 3m. The KH120 work better on a desk top in nearfield, and dont sound as good as you move further away - compared to the 8040B. Not sure the KH120ii will fill your space even with sub.
If you want to save money Kali IN8 and LP8 are worth a look.
 

sweetchaos

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Not exactly apples to apples comparison...

Woofer?
Neumann KH120 II = 5.25"
Genelec 8040 = 6.5"
That answers the how loud can it play question.

Tonality?
Both Neutral

Dispersion?
We don't have full data on Genelec 8040, but based on Amir's 8030 review.
-Horizontal directivity is (-60.0°, 60.0°) between 1kHz and 10kHz. Angle computed for +/-6dB.
-Vertical directivity is (-30.0°, 20.0°) between 1kHz and 10kHz. Angle computed for +/-6dB.
Neumann KH 120 II:
-Horizontal directivity is (-60.0°, 60.0°) between 1kHz and 10kHz. Angle computed for +/-6dB.
-Vertical directivity is (-30.0°, 40.0°) between 1kHz and 10kHz. Angle computed for +/-6dB.

Distortion?
Again, no data for 8040. Can't compare directly.

DSP ?
Genelec 8040 = no dsp
Neumann KH 120 II = dsp

An on-par comparison would be Neumann KH 120 II and Genelec 8330 (which has 5.125" woofer), since they both have DSP and similar sized woofers.
 
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Albert190

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Thank you everyone for replying.

One of the reasons I ultimately purchased the Genelec 8040B as opposed to the Neumann KH 150's, is cost.

In addition to the difference in the MRSP, I purchased the Genelec 8040B's at a very good price - being able to get 'Open Box' speakers in like 'Brand New Condition' for a 20 percent discount and with a full manufacturer's warranty.

In addition, I was impressed with the 8040B's long standing reputation for performance and build quality, although admittedly these speakers are of an older design without DSP.

As I intend to use my 8040B's with my Yamaha Adventage AVR (I am not an audio engineer but just someone who likes transparent, evenly balanced, and accurate music in my home audio system), I will be using the YPAO room equalization system that is provided with my AVR to fine tune these speakers to my room, so having built-in DSP, as in the Neumann KH150's, was not a deciding factor.

That being said, if prices were the same, I would have chosen the Neumann KH150's over the Genelec 8040B's.

Question please: Are the built in room equalization systems in the Neumann and Genelec speakers superior to what is available from third party vendors of this kind of equalization?

How good is YPAO and should I be looking at other types of third party room equalization instead of using YPAO, and if so, which ones?

Please note that If I decide not to use YPAO but decide to purchase another vendor's Room EQ, the total price I would spend on the Genelec 8040B's and the additional room EQ devices or software would still be much less than what it would have cost for the Neumann KH150's -- again for me, price was a factor.

Although I very much liked the Neumann KH120 II's, the larger woofer (and presumably higher SPL levels) of the Genelec 8040B's was another factor in my purchasing descision.

Thanks again to all.
 
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sweetchaos

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In addition to the difference in the MRSP, I purchased the Genelec 8040B's at a very good price - being able to get 'Open Box' speakers in like 'Brand New Condition' for a 20 percent discount and with a full manufacturer's warranty.
I got my 8040’s at 50% discount, because someone had returned them and I picked them up. :D
 
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Albert190

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P.S.

Another reason I decided against purchasing the Neumann KH150 speakers is that to utilize their built-in room EQ, one must use a Neumann subwoofer.

Since I already own very good subwoofers of a different make, purchasing a Neumann subwoofer in addition to the KH150's would have significantly added to the cost and was another decisive factor for me.

Thanks again.
 

unpluggged

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Another reason I decided against purchasing the Neumann KH150 speakers is that to utilize their built-in room EQ, one must use a Neumann subwoofer.
Wrong. You only need the KH 750 DSP to equalize analog Neumann monitors.
 
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Albert190

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Wrong. You only need the KH 750 DSP to equalize analog Neumann monitors.
Pardon, does this mean that only the Neumann KH750 subwoofer can be paired with the KH150's in using this speaker's room EQ software?
 

unpluggged

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Pardon, does this mean that only the Neumann KH750 subwoofer can be paired with the KH150's in using this speaker's room EQ software?
The KH 750 DSP is the only DSP-equipped Neumann subwoofer and hence it is the only subwoofer supported by the MA 1 system for now.

In the use case when you equalize DSP-based Neumann monitors, the speakers store their own corrections (including high-pass filters) and the sub stores its own (including low-pass filter). It's only when you use analog Neumann monitors the KH 750 DSP applies the whole DSP correction (obviously) with a fixed crossover at 80 Hz. The KH 750 DSP does not output corrected signal over its digital output, so even if you have the "D" versions of Neumann analog monitors (that have digital inputs with built-in DAC), you still have to connect them to KH 750 DSP's analog outputs. But if you have DSP-based monitors, you can (and should) connect them to the sub's digital output since they have their own DSP corrections. And since the KH 750 DSP has only two channels of inputs and outputs, multichannel DSP correction is only supported for DSP-based Neumann monitors.
 
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Albert190

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The KH 750 DSP is the only DSP-equipped Neumann subwoofer and hence it is the only subwoofer supported by the MA 1 system for now.

In the use case when you equalize DSP-based Neumann monitors, the speakers store their own corrections (including high-pass filters) and the sub stores its own (including low-pass filter). It's only when you use analog Neumann monitors the KH 750 DSP applies the whole DSP correction (obviously) with a fixed crossover at 80 Hz. The KH 750 DSP does not output corrected signal over its digital output, so even if you have the "D" versions of Neumann analog monitors (that have digital inputs with built-in DAC), you still have to connect them to KH 750 DSP's analog outputs. But if you have DSP-based monitors, you can (and should) connect them to the sub's digital output since they have their own DSP corrections. And since the KH 750 DSP has only two channels of inputs and outputs, multichannel DSP correction is only supported for DSP-based Neumann monitors.
Thank you for the clarification.
 
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