Genelec Ones- Overpriced ?

[srrxr71]

I had KH310 for two years and now I'm working on 8351s and I would say Genelecs are fairly priced, but they may seem expensive just because KH310s are priced too low. When looking for high end compact 3-way active studio monitors people usually choose from 8351, KH310 and ATC SCM25, all of these are very good and play in the same league with different design choices and emphasis on different aspects of the sound reproduction, but the price wise they look funky: 2,2k€ per piece of KH310, 4k€ for Genelec and 5k€ for ATC. Clearly Neumanns are underpriced even after the recent price hike

Were they always that price? It seems they amortized the development costs a long time ago.

 

[holdingpants01]

Were they always that price? It seems they amortized the development costs a long time ago.

I don't remember any price change before, however all of them had price bump in recent months, ATC mostly because of MK2 model and more expensive tweeter (they were using a 15€ OEM before), KH310 probably to make some room for KH150 price wise, when I bought my KH310s in 2020 they were around 600€/pc less expensive than they're now (around the same as KH150 now, crazy)

 

[srrxr71]

I don't remember any price change before, however all of them had price bump in recent months, ATC mostly because of MK2 model and more expensive tweeter (they were using a 15€ OEM before), KH310 probably to make some room for KH150 price wise, when I bought my KH310s in 2020 they were around 600€/pc less expensive than they're now (around the same as KH150 now, crazy)

Incredible. I just assumed the design is older and was priced appropriately for when it was released which seems like excellent value in today’s Monopoly money. So they didn’t keep up with inflation making the value proposition unbelievable.

It seems they just nailed the design and did it with less.

 

[robstalllion]

Yeah but let's say KH310 vs 8351 both 3-way 8 inch

Having a coaxial design doesn't make up for the fact that the bass is trash on the speaker. You could get Trio 11's or KH 420 for the price of the 8351's and have very clean and low bass. If you want more mid clarity, than ATC 25's are great.

Rear ports on a 10k speaker is just so stupid I don't know where to begin...

 

[fpitas]

Rear ports on a 10k speaker is just so stupid I don't know where to begin...

Rear ports have the advantage of suppressing midrange leakage from the port. I prefer bottom port to accomplish that.

 

[Sebastiaan de Vries]

I remember back around 1999 I went to a dealer (I was broke) and auditioned this mark levinson plus (honestly can’t even remember which speakers) system that ran about $130k.

Back in 1999 in 1999 dollars. That’s like $200k at least.

The best part? Sounded like nothing. I got no feeling or emotion from it.

Fast forward to 2021 and I heard the $8k a Genelec 8351b. I don’t want to talk about it. Just uncontrollable emotion. I’ll leave it there.

I hear you. I owned close to 30K Magnepan 20.7 speakers and another 30K 5x Benchmark AHB2. When by miracle, the mall in my place had a Genelec booth. After I heard them, I was floored. Every album I played was a revolution. I instantly bought the Genelecs, and it took me nearly a year to sell the Magnepans. The Benchmarks were gone immediately. The demand was high.

The funny thing is, I used to hear Genelec (1031 etc.) for half of my life when I grew up in various recording studios, but as a foolish audiophile, I wasn’t ready yet for that.

 

[RobL]

Having a coaxial design doesn't make up for the fact that the bass is trash on the speaker. You could get Trio 11's or KH 420 for the price of the 8351's and have very clean and low bass. If you want more mid clarity, than ATC 25's are great.

Rear ports on a 10k speaker is just so stupid I don't know where to begin...

First post and you slam one of the best reviewed speakers on the site…welcome to ASR.
Let me guess, you wandered over from Gearspace?

 

[Sebastiaan de Vries]

Having a coaxial design doesn't make up for the fact that the bass is trash on the speaker. You could get Trio 11's or KH 420 for the price of the 8351's and have very clean and low bass. If you want more mid clarity, than ATC 25's are great.

Rear ports on a 10k speaker is just so stupid I don't know where to begin...

Calling it trash is exaggerating.

Firstly the 8351b’s are used nearfield. Inside their SPL limitations, they deliver quality bass response

Secondly, it’s the 8351b overall value proposition. Great software, room correction, superior controlled directivity. (That’s not just adding a coax driver)

Thirdly, no monitor you mention can, in absolute terms, deliver true low-end. You must resort to subwoofers for a multitude of reasons, regardless.

 

[srrxr71]

I don't think you can call the best monitors in the world expensive.

Like a gift that they even exist.

I hear you. I owned close to 30K Magnepan 20.7 speakers and another 30K 5x Benchmark AHB2. When by miracle, the mall in my place had a Genelec booth. After I heard them, I was floored. Every album I played was a revolution. I instantly bought the Genelecs, and it took me nearly a year to sell the Magnepans. The Benchmarks were gone immediately. The demand was high.

The funny thing is, I used to hear Genelec (1031 etc.) for half of my life when I grew up in various recording studios, but as a foolish audiophile, I wasn’t ready yet for that.

It’s funny on my side too I was an audiofool too.

I was student and I could afford only the NHT M-00. My first “active” (rather powered as it has a passive crossover) speaker.

I bought it as theoretically it makes sense to have the manufacturer mate the amp to the drivers. It was great.

So we were about to graduate and my buddy was about to marry this PhD in engineering. She definitely looked down on my audiofool ways. I was now hooked on the concept of active speakers but I was looking only at audiofool type manufacturers.

She convinced my buddy to buy Genelec. So he went and bought 1031s and subs.

I heard them at his house but I was not even slightly impressed. I went pro audio and bought a pair of Focal Solo 6be. I really liked those a lot. But the 1031 did my impress me.

Still I had Genelec on my radar. At some point I got the 8010. Loved them. They are limited but they were still amazing. But they had the issue that you can’t turn your head without the sonic character changing.

Then years later after having a pair of LSX and then LS50w finally I wanted a proper 3-way coaxial design.

So I ordered the 8341s. In 2020 they could not make enough of them. I had a 3 month wait for delivery.

In the meantime, however, I had to fly to a city with a Genelec experience center (at least that time it was branded so).

The first evening I made sure to go and listen. They had both 8341 and 8351 but the 8351 was set up.

They played some slower, older music.

My lord. OMG.

You can’t unhear it. You can’t ever forget that moment.

Like an IV direct into your amygdala. Straight into uncontrollable emotion. I tear up just remembering that moment.

I came back and after a few weeks the 8341 came.

Within 1 year I ended up with my current setup. There was nothing more important to me than to just go the all way with Genelec.

I guess it’s not “all the way” anymore but it’s enough.

I’ve burned so much money over the years buying all kinds of stuff. But this is worth every penny - the best value in audio. Performance I was not even capable of dreaming of.

 

[fpitas]

First post and you slam one of the best reviewed speakers on the site…welcome to ASR.
Let me guess, you wandered over from Gearspace?

He smack-talked rear ports, too!

 

[robstalllion]

Calling it trash is exaggerating.

Firstly the 8351b’s are used nearfield. Inside their SPL limitations, they deliver quality bass response

Secondly, it’s the 8351b overall value proposition. Great software, room correction, superior controlled directivity. (That’s not just adding a coax driver)

Thirdly, no monitor you mention can, in absolute terms, deliver true low-end. You must resort to subwoofers for a multitude of reasons, regardless.

It's not. For near fielding they are absolutely a bad value.

KH 310 has a lower and more refined bass response and it's much cheaper. That's the rub right there.

Getting to 20 Hz in a near fielding situation is quite cheap, just get a cheap sub from guitar center.

Amir didn't measure either of the cones separately and he didn't measure the rear port either.

Front ports, pluggable ports, or infinite baffle are superior to rear porting for a number of reasons.

 

[srrxr71]

It's not. For near fielding they are absolutely a bad value.

KH 310 has a lower and more refined bass response and it's much cheaper. That's the rub right there.

Getting to 20 Hz in a near fielding situation is quite cheap, just get a cheap sub from guitar center.

Amir didn't measure either of the cones separately and he didn't measure the rear port either.

Front ports, pluggable ports, or infinite baffle are superior to rear porting for a number of reasons.

Okay fair enough. But the problem I had with non coaxial designs especially in the near field is that you can’t move your head without the response changing.

Now if you’re a professional doing work maybe you have a certain position you work in. Maybe you have consciously or sub consciously figured out how to “correct” for that in your brain.

But for those us consuming audio that is annoying enough to want to take an axe to it.

 

[bodhi]

Troll?

 

[srrxr71]

Troll?

We are used to it. Genelec is the biggest troll magnet here.

Don’t be mad. Just work hard and save up. Probably I’ll get an “ok boomer” for saying it.

 

[robstalllion]

Okay fair enough. But the problem I had with non coaxial designs especially in the near field is that you can’t move your head without the response changing.

Now if you’re a professional doing work maybe you have a certain position you work in. Maybe you have consciously or sub consciously figured out how to “correct” for that in your brain.

But for those us consuming audio that is annoying enough to want to take an axe to it.

Sure. It's all about tradeoffs, so if point source is important to you then there's really no competitor to the Genelec's.

Unless the dispersion is really funky, I don't really care if it's point source or not.

 

[srrxr71]

Sure. It's all about tradeoffs, so if point source is important to you then there's really no competitor to the Genelec's.

Unless the dispersion is really funky, I don't really care if it's point source or not.

It’s important to me. I like to move my head a little when listening. But I can understand a mixing engineer might have an internal compensation for it.

I bet they’d make a decision and have to find the exact head spot to check the decision and revise it.

I bet it costs time in mixing and people subconsciously do this and not realize it.

 

[robstalllion]

It’s important to me. I like to move my head a little when listening. But I can understand a mixing engineer might have an internal compensation for it.

I bet they’d make a decision and have to find the exact head spot to check the decision and revise it.

I bet it costs time in mixing and people subconsciously do this and not realize it.

Unless you're in an anechoic chamber than the sound will always change if you move. It's just science.

 

[srrxr71]

Unless you're in an anechoic chamber than the sound will always change if you move. It's just science.

Sure but those weird phasing effects are not there if you sit close to a coaxial and move your head.

Why? 30 degree cones of sound aimed at your ears which are consistent within that cone.

Of course studios will have room treatment too already. I have room treatment for this reason as well.

I’m not saying coaxial eliminates this. Rather the character and magnitude of this is so much better. I’m just speaking from my personal observations.

It has always been my pet peeve and I didn’t realize the solution until I tried KEF LSX.

 

[holdingpants01]

I owned and used KH310 and 8351 for audio work and prefer Genelecs by far, low end is fine on both but kind of irrelevant as I use multisubs anyway, and integrating them is straightforward with GLM, not so with Neumann apps and their DSP solution. There are a lot of aspects of monitors that are important if you use them for work, location of a bass reflex port is quite low on that list

 

[kevinh]

The Ones are IMO a great value a well engineered Loudspeaker +Included Tri Amplification + the SAM Software. The software is for me the big differentiation compared to other solutions. The flexibility of integrating SW if needed and room integration make them a great value compared to any 'audiophile' setup I am aware of.