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Genelec GLM Review (Room EQ & Setup)

NiagaraPete

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Genelec owners. Can a third party sub be used with GLM or does it have to be a Genelec sub?
Also do you need tpo leave the glm thing setup all the time for correction or is it a one shot deal until you use it again?
 

mkt

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Settings can be saved to speakers/sub for one shot deal. Genelec-only afaik.
 

NiagaraPete

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BDE

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Is there a solid comparison between GLM and Dirac, especially in normal living room conditions (so not nearfield)?
 

Sancus

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Is there a solid comparison between GLM and Dirac, especially in normal living room conditions (so not nearfield)?
I haven't seen a direct comparison, but they have pretty different goals. GLM is meant for working studio monitors, Dirac is meant for home listening. So Dirac can do a lot more correction. GLM is restricted by the fact that it needs to keep latency very low.

All GLM really does is knock low/mid frequency peaks down, and let you set shelf filters to tweak the overall tonality. If you're looking for phase correction, full range correction, or attempting to deal with nulls, then Dirac does those things, but GLM doesn't. You CAN manually alter the individual filters with GLM to do anything that a notch or shelf filter can do, though, more or less.

Can a third party sub be used with GLM or does it have to be a Genelec sub?
You can use GLM with a third party sub, just not to cross over or to correct the sub, as GLM doesn't perform crossovers. You will need an external crossover/EQ, either the one built-in to the sub or some other.

The Genelec subs have crossovers and EQ built into them that GLM will control(so you still need to run your audio channels through the sub and then out to the monitors with Genelec subs).

GLM is just a control network for the DSP hardware built into the speakers/subs.
 

NiagaraPete

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I haven't seen a direct comparison, but they have pretty different goals. GLM is meant for working studio monitors, Dirac is meant for home listening. So Dirac can do a lot more correction. GLM is restricted by the fact that it needs to keep latency very low.

All GLM really does is knock low/mid frequency peaks down, and let you set shelf filters to tweak the overall tonality. If you're looking for phase correction, full range correction, or attempting to deal with nulls, then Dirac does those things, but GLM doesn't. You CAN manually alter the individual filters with GLM to do anything that a notch or shelf filter can do, though, more or less.


You can use GLM with a third party sub, just not to cross over or to correct the sub, as GLM doesn't perform crossovers. You will need an external crossover/EQ, either the one built-in to the sub or some other.

The Genelec subs have crossovers and EQ built into them that GLM will control(so you still need to run your audio channels through the sub and then out to the monitors with Genelec subs).

GLM is just a control network for the DSP hardware built into the speakers/subs.
Awesome, thanks for the details.
 

Sancus

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GLM does phase align a Genelec SAM sub to a Genelec SAM speaker in version 4.1.
Just FYI this isn't what I was referring to as phase correction, Dirac does full-range phase correction of in-room sound based on measurements.

GLM phase aligns a sub with a monitor as you said and it also linearizes the phase of the Ones(at the speaker level, not by measuring in-room sound) but that's it.

How much value that aspect of Dirac provides is another story, but it is relatively unique in the extent to which it does that.
 

NiagaraPete

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gondorff

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The Genelec subs have crossovers and EQ built into them that GLM will control(so you still need to run your audio channels through the sub and then out to the monitors with Genelec subs).
Something nice: Subwoofers are not needed for crossover functionality (since the introduction of the 7200 series and higher). You can entirely bypass the sub if you wish to and send the signal on its own pathway directly to the speakers . Every speaker (sub included as speaker) gets the full range signal and the crossover happens in each speaker separately via dsp.
 

NiagaraPete

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Something nice: Subwoofers are not needed for crossover functionality (since the introduction of the 7200 series and higher). You can entirely bypass the sub if you wish to and send the signal on its own pathway directly to the speakers . Every speaker (sub included as speaker) gets the full range signal and the crossover happens in each speaker separately via dsp.
Good to know. So adding a sub with its own low pass should be manageable.
 

Sancus

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Something nice: Subwoofers are not needed for crossover functionality (since the introduction of the 7200 series and higher). You can entirely bypass the sub if you wish to and send the signal on its own pathway directly to the speakers . Every speaker (sub included as speaker) gets the full range signal and the crossover happens in each speaker separately via dsp.
I assume you're talking about this configuration(from the 7360A manual):

"Y-cables from the source to the subwoofer's IN connector and the monitor's signal input." or "• Signal sources with dual outputs for each channel."

Yeah, good to know.

You can also set a high pass on the monitors in GLM even if you don't have a Genelec sub...so in theory you can do a combo GLM high pass and non-GLM low-pass but I don't usually mention this because it's a pretty bad idea.

Genelec uses 8th order(48dB/oct) slopes for all their crossovers, and this is very rare in non-Genelec subs or other crossover hardware with fixed slopes. If you try to use a non-Genelec sub's low pass along with the GLM high pass, you will end up with mismatched slopes. Most subs won't have much if any EQ capability either. No PEQs and mismatched crossover slopes are a recipe for terrible bass.

If you're not using Genelec subs you're best off getting a miniDSP, or doing the crossover/EQ in software on a PC, or any method where you can control all the variables properly in one place.
 
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gondorff

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Yeah. There is the mentioning of cables in the manual. When using the sub only as an LFE-distributor, one cable to the sub should be enough.

As Sancus said, maybe it would be theoretically possible, but gives plenty of room for introducing errors. I would consider it an option for Genelec systems only.

Genelec uses 8th order(48dB/oct) slopes for all their crossovers.
Now that is interesting, did not know that!
 

kthulhutu

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My personal experience with GLM is that it is a quick, simple and conservative parametric EQ for bass frequencies that adds minimal latency, requires little knowledge or time to set up and is very unlikely to make things sound worse. It also gives you a nice software interface to mute, change volume, seamlessly integrate subs etc which is also very slick and modern compared to the days of fiddling with bare cables and receivers.

I am perfectly fine with this and I think the results are quite good and the convenience of storing EQ in the speakers is near unbeatable, but I do wish their graphing tool was better (the lack of smoothing and scaling options is especially bad) and they offered the ability to verify measurements without breaking out REW and a totally different mic.
On that note, It'd also be nice if the mic wasn't hardwired into the GLM kit...
 

stevenswall

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Overall, I am going to recommend the Genelec GLM. It should be mandatory for anyone buying a SAM speaker that works with it.

SAM speakers and the GLM kit should be mandatory if you're buying Genelec... Once you get rid of coaxial drivers and GLM, there's less reason to go with Genelec unless you're in Europe where it's cheaper or if you need the mounting options. Going to their box shaped speaker series I'd say there is zero reason because then you're simply buying a generic active speaker without the cabinet, room correction, or coaxial advantages.
 

DigiPete

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My personal experience with GLM is that it is a quick, simple and conservative parametric EQ for bass frequencies that adds minimal latency, requires little knowledge or time to set up and is very unlikely to make things sound worse. It also gives you a nice software interface to mute, change volume, seamlessly integrate subs etc which is also very slick and modern compared to the days of fiddling with bare cables and receivers.

I am perfectly fine with this and I think the results are quite good and the convenience of storing EQ in the speakers is near unbeatable, but I do wish their graphing tool was better (the lack of smoothing and scaling options is especially bad) and they offered the ability to verify measurements without breaking out REW and a totally different mic.
On that note, It'd also be nice if the mic wasn't hardwired into the GLM kit...

Going the Genelec SAM way has pro's and con's for audiophiles.
Speaking from a decade of Genelec SAM in surround setup.

First you must ask yourself if:

a) You are a music lover, or . .
b) You enjoy the hobby of tinkering.

Genelec is NOT for tinkers!

PRO's:
  1. Coaxial drivers of The Ones images like nothing else
  2. GLM Ease of use - easy, predictable, fast and 'safe' room compensation setup.
  3. Scalable - systems up to at least 80 monitors and subwoofers
  4. Digital all the way to the monitors
  5. Super low distortion until you push them too hard
  6. Low latency
  7. Cables are cheap, 'lossless' and can be as long as you like (100m)
  8. Analogue inputs to build in ADC's
  9. Super robust units - think child / animal safe
  10. Keeps it's value
  11. Backed by a robust and professional company
  12. 5 year warranty if you register online
  13. Parts available for decades

CON's
  1. It's a closed system, so you really shouldn't mix with other brands
  2. GLM room compensation is good, but with limits
  3. PCM only, up to 24/192
  4. You need a AES/EBU (or coax S/PDIF with converter) source to drive them digitally - as you should.
  5. Streaming surround / Atmos is still tricky / expensive due to streaming platform limitations - if you wanna keep it digital
    Apple Music currently works with a std. DDC, Tidal & Amazon still needs a 'Dolby Atmos' branded box to be willing to deliver even 5.1
  6. It's a lot of cabling, as both speakers needs both the AES/EBU to carry music and the RJ45 that carries GLM control signals
  7. Steep learning curve. But once you've got it, you've got it.
  8. IMO all SAM units really needs sub support to get full bass extension, so factor that cost in.

Pricing can seem overwhelming or quite cheap depending, so not sure where to put this.
You will spend a lot of money, but the sound quality will more than reflect this.
 

NiagaraPete

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You need a AES/EBU (or coax S/PDIF with converter) source to drive them digitally - as you should.
Ho do I do that with Apple? What is a std?
 

infinitesymphony

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  1. Streaming surround / Atmos is still tricky / expensive due to streaming platform limitations - if you wanna keep it digital
    Apple Music currently works with a std. DDC, Tidal & Amazon still needs a 'Dolby Atmos' branded box to be willing to deliver even 5.1
Streaming surround music sounds interesting. When you say "'Dolby Atmos' branded box," do you mean a surround receiver with Dolby Atmos, or are there other hardware or software options?
 

DigiPete

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Ho do I do that with Apple? What is a std?

Connect a DDC just like you would a DAC like your Topping D30.
Choose it as your sound card.
Done

For multiple channels and other advanced stuff - set it up in "Audio MIDI setup".

PS Topping D10S is a cheap way to get USB to S/PDIF - works great with Genelecs for a stereo setup.
 

DigiPete

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Streaming surround music sounds interesting. When you say "'Dolby Atmos' branded box," do you mean a surround receiver with Dolby Atmos, or are there other hardware or software options?


We are still finding out what solutions may be available for streaming surround into digital outputs like AES/EBU.
Plenty of (Dolby Atmos) surround receivers with analogue out, making you dependant on the quality of the build in DAC.
Not my jam!

It seems like we currently have to go to extremes (€€€) like Storm Audio, Trinnov or Smyth Realiser to get pure digital surround outputs.
Perhaps streaming + surround + audiophile + digital output is just too narrow a market for now.

Now, the base layer of 5.1 or 7.1 is a pure PCM stream and as such should be an easy one.
The height layers must be processed for your specific height layer speaker setup, so that may be a little more complicated in software.

I'll play more with Apple Music when I get the time, as they willingly supplied a 5.1 stream from my Mac direct to my Motu 8D multichannel DDC.
 
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