Genelec 8361A Review (Powered Monitor)

[FrantzM]

Here's my Genelec home theater setup. 8361As front and rear, 8351As on the sides, six Triad golds overhead for Atmos, three RS1 subs. Following the most recent MSO and room optimization efforts I am finally obtaining good, coherent sound.

Nothing goes according to plan. Thinking I'd build passive surround speakers, I previously hard-wired speaker cable to each speaker location. Then I purchased the 8351's for my office and liked them. I bought an 8361 to replace my home theater center channel and liked it too. So, I decided to run Genelecs all around which necessitated running two shielded CAT6 under the carpets to route differential signals to each speaker zone.

Can you feel the Hate?

 

[Haskil]

Pouvez-vous sentir la haine?

Ha ha ha ha ha ha !

 

[jhenderson0107]

All things come to those who wait.

 

[2Bad]

I finally got to the end of this thread... a big thanks to all who shared their thoughts with us.

 

[dpturner]

I finally got to the end of this thread... a big thanks to all who shared their thoughts with us.

there is no end...

 

[2Bad]

there is no end...

Isn't that the truth.

 

[Dgob]

Isn't that the truth.

Maybe!

 

[DuncanDirkDick]

Can anyone measure the isopod size? I can't find anything on genelec.com

E: NVM there's a dwg file. It's 26 (w) x 23 (d) cm

 

[MBI]

Does anyone please know what SINAD is to be expected from the 8361A inside DAC, I may have missed parts of the discussion? Many thanks in advance for any help.
[EDIT: just asked Genelec customer's support and will report if they respond]

 

[nerdoldnerdith]

Does anyone please know what SINAD is to be expected from the 8361A inside DAC, I may have missed parts of the discussion? Many thanks in advance for any help.
[EDIT: just asked Genelec customer's support and will report if they respond]

AK4621EF | Audio CODECs | Audio Components | Products | Asahi Kasei Microdevices (AKM)

115dB 192kHz 24-bit 2 ch ADC & 2 ch DAC with Low Latency Digital Filter. The AK4621EF is a high performance 24-bit CODEC that supports up to 192kHz recording and playback.

www.akm.com

This is the DAC used. It has a SINAD of 100.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Specs wise How good or bad are the built in amps?

 

[MBI]

AK4621EF | Audio CODECs | Audio Components | Products | Asahi Kasei Microdevices (AKM)

115dB 192kHz 24-bit 2 ch ADC & 2 ch DAC with Low Latency Digital Filter. The AK4621EF is a high performance 24-bit CODEC that supports up to 192kHz recording and playback.

www.akm.com

This is the DAC used. It has a SINAD of 100.

Very many thanks! I'm so grateful.

Wonder if a 123 SINAD Topping D90SE fed through the analogue inputs makes an audible difference or if the 100 SINAD built in DAC is as precise as the speakers can go anyway.

Would be eager to blind test my wife, switching from analogue to digital inputs (using the GLM sofware for example, and an extra Raspberry pi with an XLR digital output HAT) but not so sure the GLM software decibel microphone reading could help me SPL match both routes or if this sort of fiddling is too tacky.

Or perhaps someone here can reliably predict the outcome?

Specs wise How good or bad are the built in amps?

Are you just asking (in which case the operating manual or the courageous 8351 B tear down may help guessing at least for the 8361 coaxial drivers which I somehow beleive are the same) or are you rather trying to suggest that the built in amps SINAD (and any other performance specs limits) actually cap upstream DAC better SINAD anyway?

 

[Pearljam5000]

Very many thanks! I'm so grateful.

Wonder if a 123 SINAD Topping D90SE fed through the analogue inputs makes an audible difference or if the 100 SINAD built in DAC is as precise as the speakers can go anyway.

Would be eager to blind test my wife, switching from analogue to digital inputs (using the GLM sofware for example, and an extra Raspberry pi with an XLR digital output HAT) but not so sure the GLM software decibel microphone reading could help me SPL match both routes or if this sort of fiddling is too tacky.

Or perhaps someone here can reliably predict the outcome?



Are you just asking (in which case the operating manual or the courageous 8351 B tear down may help guessing at least for the coaxial drivers) or are you rather trying to suggest that the built in amps SINAD (and any other performance specs limits) actually cap upstream DAC better SINAD anyway?

Something in the middle
I'm just wondering if the amps or the DACs are a limiting factor or are they just good enough

 

[lherrm]

Something in the middle
I'm just wondering if the amps or the DACs are a limiting factor or are they just good enough

My naïve answer : if they were a limiting factor for the intended design/use, they would not be there.
I highly doubt you can upgrade the final output quality of a One by changing the amp or DAC.

 

[MBI]

My naïve answer : if they were a limiting factor for the intended design/use, they would not be there.
I highly doubt you can upgrade the final output quality of a One by changing the amp or DAC.

Unlike nerdoldnerdith (many thanks again), Genelec customer service won't say:

"Due to company policy, we don't share any component-specific information. We do share all data of the system-performance.

Amplifier system THD at nominal output

<0.05%

This for example includes AD, DSP, DA and amplifiers." (Genelec customer experience specialist)

Does it mean that feeding 8361A with an analog DAC SINAD signal over 100 (ie. Topping D90SE) is useless as it won't make a difference?

 

[tmtomh]

Unlike nerdoldnerdith (many thanks again), Genelec customer service won't say:

"Due to company policy, we don't share any component-specific information. We do share all data of the system-performance.

Amplifier system THD at nominal output

<0.05%

This for example includes AD, DSP, DA and amplifiers." (Genelec customer experience specialist)

Does it mean that feeding 8361A with an analog DAC SINAD signal over 100 (ie. Topping D90SE) is useless as it won't make a difference?

There's no sonic benefit in feeding the 8631's analogue input with the analogue output of any DAC, as the 8631 will just re-digitize and amplify that analogue input, and so you're limited by the performance of the 8631's internal components.

If you want to feed that analogue input with the output of an external DAC, though, you can avoid any degradation in performance by following @amirm's general guideline of the upstream DAC having SINAD about 10dB better than the amplifying gear it's connected to (because noise and distortion are cumulative). You don't need to go crazy chasing the max possible SINAD (like 123dB). There are now plenty of pretty inexpensive DACs that will give you a 110-115dB (or slightly better) SINAD output, which should be fine for ensuring that a DAC-->analogue-->8631 chain performs at its maximum level.

 

[MBI]

There's no sonic benefit in feeding the 8631's analogue input with the analogue output of any DAC, as the 8631 will just re-digitize and amplify that analogue input, and so you're limited by the performance of the 8631's internal components.

If you want to feed that analogue input with the output of an external DAC, though, you can avoid any degradation in performance by following @amirm's general guideline of the upstream DAC having SINAD about 10dB better than the amplifying gear it's connected to (because noise and distortion are cumulative). You don't need to go crazy chasing the max possible SINAD (like 123dB). There are now plenty of pretty inexpensive DACs that will give you a 110-115dB (or slightly better) SINAD output, which should be fine for ensuring that a DAC-->analogue-->8631 chain performs at its maximum level.

Many thanks for your explaination.

Why an analog signal would mandatorily be redigitised and converted back again to an analog signal before being amplified, I don't get it, is this really how Genelec works?

If so, wouldn't it be just as good but much cheaper to just use an AES/EBU Raspberry pi Hat such as Audiophonics Digipi+AES (45€)?

 

[HooStat]

Why an analog signal would mandatorily be redigitised and converted back again to an analog signal before being amplified, I don't get it, is this really how Genelec works?

Everything is done digitally in the 8361, including the crossover. There is no way NOT to digitize an analog signal for that speaker.

 

[MBI]

Got it now! Thanks. Will try that 45€ Digipi+AES Raspberry pi 4B hat as an 8361A input since it should make no difference at all. No external DAC takes even less room and that nice Topping D90SE will be used in another system.

 

[MBI]

[EDIT] If the listening experience of such performant speakers can't be improved with a DAC SINAD over 100, then what system does?

Some may be interested to know that RopieeeXL (Roon compatible) has an included HifiBerry Digi+ driver which here successfully runs the Raspberry pi DIGIPI+AES HAT to feed a digital signal to 2 daisy chained Genelecs 8361A. Haven't blind tested it, but can't spot any difference from Topping D90SE through the analog connectors (and that 900€ DAC now is happily used somewhere else in the house). If anyone knows which Rpi 4B case fits that 45€ DIGIPI+AES HAT, I'd please very much like to know! Many thanks for kind members' help.