Balle Clorin
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For whatever it's worth, here is my AT3600L on the CBS test record.How does a really cheap MM cartridge perform, Thorens TPU 257=AudioTechnica AT-3600= close to Rega Carbon
Thorens TAS 257 - Muziker
Thorens TAS 257 ✓ Best Price Guarantee ✓ Fast shipping ✓ Return policy up to 30 days ✓ Professional customer service ✓ 25 years on the marketwww.muziker.co.uk
The only problem with this cartridge is the high tracking force at 3g, that will wear the records
Clearaudio TRS-1007 test record
View attachment 251716
Channel balance and separation is much better then the specs
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Here is your file on JP's script.
Styli compliant with the old AT3600 spec of 1g to 2g VTF are still available... including in line contact formats:How does a really cheap MM cartridge perform, Thorens TPU 257=AudioTechnica AT-3600= close to Rega Carbon
Thorens TAS 257 - Muziker
Thorens TAS 257 ✓ Best Price Guarantee ✓ Fast shipping ✓ Return policy up to 30 days ✓ Professional customer service ✓ 25 years on the marketwww.muziker.co.uk
The only problem with this cartridge is the high tracking force at 3g, that will wear the records
Clearaudio TRS-1007 test record
View attachment 251716
Channel balance and separation is much better then the specs
View attachment 251717
View attachment 251718
The platter can ring so does need to be damped. The platter pad's job is to kill resonance in the vinyl. This fact is poorly understood. But if you have the volume down and you can hear the stylus tracing the groove that's a bad sign. It should be silent. All of this is easily measured and has a direct effect on what you hear as well. So if you have an undamped platter its really not that surprising to find out that the belt can affect your noise floor. BTW the plinth should be damped as well.Investigations..and trobleshooting, I would be greateful for any comments
After adjusting the table and re-mounting the AT OC9II/ML I noticed some resonant peaks in the 100-200hz range on the Ultimate Analog Test LP track 1-3. I was afraid my SME arm needed service. The peaks are there with both carts OC) and Thorens TPU257=AT 3600. But I now found out the peaks vary with the belt I use and are eliminated when recording on a free spinning platter not using motor or belt!! Other test records does not show the peaks as they are hidden in the groove noise , i.e. only visible with low system noise. (I seem to also some new electrical interference,,th 50Hz peak was not there before,)
My conclusion so far is that a even if I do pick up more electrical noise than befoer, the belt condition is creasing some resonance in the system
Initial finding, green lines are 3 month old recording, magenta/blue with new set-up
View attachment 251938
Different cart
More noise peaks in one channel
Different belt changes peaks, only once channel at 200Hz
Choosing best belt and adding talcum..
Test record so far has was Ultimate analog test record track 1-3
With the best belt and changing test record to Clearaudio TRS-1007 track 1 silent groove after sweep vs 1kHz beep, Problem not visible on this record
The only one to really trust is the Shakenspin since the turntable belt quality and general turntable setup, record centering etc can cause variation like this, on same test record. Clearaudio TRS-1007. Those with a Technics 1200 or SP10 will not have such variation problems and should result in more valid test records TESTs
How do you know your platter pad is doing its job? Based on the above, it appears its not very good at it.Yes I have a SMR platter mat and the Michell clamp , have measured with and without mat before did not notice much diference, will do it again.
Have not dampend the chassis of my Gyro yet but have the Densodamp material to do it. But that requires a full dismantling and arm removal , I dread to to that. Last time I did it 3years ago I screwed up the wow and flutter performance , and I just managed to get it back.
The belt clearly transmit noise to the platter and to the chassis, easy to listen for that with a stethoscope with motor driving the platter and free spinning without belt.
I thought the motor would transmitt most noise via the resing surface and feet, but that is very little ( got sorbothan under motor and mouse mat under chassis feet) , holding the motor in mid air while playing also transmits about the same motor noise to the chassis, so the sinner her is the belt.
I fully agree that hearing music directly from the cartridge with speakers off is not a good sign. It indicates vibrations from “somewhere “ But I do hear some testtones , clamping mat on platter does not eliminate that, I will have to listen more to investigate.
Cannot really measur any difference with or without a platter mat, Maybe a "knock" would reveal more
View attachment 252158
The wow&flutter data I now get are amazingly good for a Gyro and better than many most of the turntables I have measured. Only one is better on peak variation and that one costs 10 times more
View attachment 252156
Same data different noise filtering and Excel FFT
View attachment 252157
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Huh? If that is the case then the suspension has a flaw. The arm should always move the same plane as the platter else colorations will be manifest. For that reason if the design is done properly such a test will not do anything to the tracking.this is a lightly floating suspended turntable a knock would definitely send the cartridge jumping.
That's good news. The patter is apparently damped.with an arm-cart resonance of 7hz , a dancing cart may follow . If I jump violently on the floor, that has happened
But I did what you said just now a tapped the platter with my finger quite hard, and nothing happened to the music, nor suspension and no cartridge dance ! but with the needle the lead in groove I could head a faint bump.. Thanks for challenging me !
Just an update on the search for a good test record, My Bruel&Kjær QR2010m inherited from a Broadcasting company is still good it seems , very happy now with both test record and turntableDifferent Wowh&flutter presentation, Thanks to @JP and @USER for helt with the Pyhon script for polar plot
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The only one to really trust is the Shakenspin since the turntable belt quality and general turntable setup, record centering etc can cause variation like this, on same test record. Clearaudio TRS-1007. Those with a Technics 1200 or SP10 will not have such variation problems and should result in more valid test records TESTs
View attachment 252406