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Oh I misread it. I thought it was scaled in some way. Didn't realize 0.5 was actually 0.5.
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Fun with vinyl measurements
- Thread starter Balle Clorin
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You have 6 and 9 Hz peaks. Change to 0.1 % scale to see more clearly.
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Will try to set it up better and update. Are those peaks usually indicative of anything in particular? Issues dealing more with flutter? Or tonearm bearing or simply cartridge resonance?
No expert on direct drives. If you have another test record you can see whether the same peaks arise. If so there is probably something with the drive mechanism. Tomorrow I will make some more tests with my new more heavy platter for my BD Linn Axis. It should reduce belt-platter resonance frequency and Q.
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Didn't use the microscope so it could still be a bit better. I have to admit that it is easier to adjust and check placement with this program than with WFGUI. Looking forward to testing this with my Denon DP-30L II.
Which test record is this?
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Oh yeah, a new copy of Tacet Vinyl Check. Bought from Amazon a few months ago. It was the first one I found in years that seems close to my old "good" copy (i.e. with only a centering issue). I must have returned near 15 copies as they all had pressing issues. It seems that new stock is better. I haven't run extensive tests on it with Scott and JP's script and with my Denon DP-30L II so we will see. But if these results are worst case scenario, they seem reasonable for the old Sony PS-X50.
These are the results with my old, clearly off center Tacet:
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So today I made some measurements of my "new" Linn Axis.
First, I have changed the motor pulley to an LP12 motor pulley since the old one was a bit wobbly.
Second, I have managed to get a spare LP12 outer platter. This one weighs 2500 g as opposed to the aluminum variant of the Axis at 1025-1050 g. The inner platter weights 500 g. Since the outer platter brings more to the inertia, I would expect some more stability and lower resonance of the belt-platter.
The polar plot looks a bit better than my previous results of the lighter Axis platter. This is from the Tacet record 3150 signal, 10 seconds into the file.
And the output of the T100 analyser shows lower spectral components as well. It is mainly 1.1 and 2.2 Hz, and some peaks which falls near the resonance frequency of the cartridge-arm.
There are some strange readings though. In the beginning of the reading, the values are quite high, as seen with data taken from the logger, taking 1 second slices It does not stabilise until 10 seconds of the 3150 Hz file. Not sure what this is - (i) resonance induced after sudden increase of friction, (II) something with the Tacet record.
The values stabilise at around 0.024% WRMS and 0.039% Quasi-peak, but are way higher the first seconds:
Also seen with the T100 analyser with an "early" image grab, but I cannot see any resonant frequency besides the usual record-related ones:
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A question:
What is the time-window used for calculation of Quasi-Peak? I thought it was 1 second? For WRMS it is 5 seconds according to what I've read.
First, I have changed the motor pulley to an LP12 motor pulley since the old one was a bit wobbly.
Second, I have managed to get a spare LP12 outer platter. This one weighs 2500 g as opposed to the aluminum variant of the Axis at 1025-1050 g. The inner platter weights 500 g. Since the outer platter brings more to the inertia, I would expect some more stability and lower resonance of the belt-platter.
The polar plot looks a bit better than my previous results of the lighter Axis platter. This is from the Tacet record 3150 signal, 10 seconds into the file.
And the output of the T100 analyser shows lower spectral components as well. It is mainly 1.1 and 2.2 Hz, and some peaks which falls near the resonance frequency of the cartridge-arm.
There are some strange readings though. In the beginning of the reading, the values are quite high, as seen with data taken from the logger, taking 1 second slices It does not stabilise until 10 seconds of the 3150 Hz file. Not sure what this is - (i) resonance induced after sudden increase of friction, (II) something with the Tacet record.
The values stabilise at around 0.024% WRMS and 0.039% Quasi-peak, but are way higher the first seconds:
Also seen with the T100 analyser with an "early" image grab, but I cannot see any resonant frequency besides the usual record-related ones:
,
A question:
What is the time-window used for calculation of Quasi-Peak? I thought it was 1 second? For WRMS it is 5 seconds according to what I've read.
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If it helps, my Tacet results are similar in that it takes a few seconds to stabilize with the program.
It's looking like you did a really good job with the turntable.
Ok so you also see the same thing? Is it possible for you to log the values (I start the logging directly after the signal starts) and publish? I want to know if this is a software/record thing/ or something with the turntable.
With respect to the job, I think the Axis was quite a sleeper as a BD TT when it came out, with its very low drive voltage and torque sensing. Not sure why the bothered with a lighter aluminum platter when they had the LP12 platter. It is just a matter of adjusting the suspension a bit; the motor drive handles the platter as it should. It seems that the LP12 platter decreases W&F values by ≈30%.
Looks like filter settling. I'd imagine you could just start the signal at the latter point where the track measures good and see if you get the same behavior.
The polar looks really good except the portion I've marked here. Is that in the record, or is it a bearing issue?
I am not sure. It is a belt drive so I guess I will see losses and variations. It will never approach a direct drive. At least it is measurably better than before. Listening to Joni Mitchell "Blue" as I write and it sounds really fine.
(I never thought I would do anything more investments on the turntable than exchange stylii, but these new measurement tools got me interested again.. There are new (expensive) bearings to buy as well...but I checked the one I have and it seems really fine.So now I will just play music. )
You can 'index' the test record off the tone start. From there, just rotate the record 180° and see if the blip follow the record or the platter.
Yes, I could. I might do some more; however I have got other toys (E1DA Scaler arrived...) and perhaps to restore my old Linn Akito tonearm with new bearings. Don't know what to do with it though; but I once had a plan to make a bigger foundation for my Axis and have two tonearms. I have the Axis look-alike "Brinkman Avance" in mind, but just a bit bigger. Time flies.
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Yes, I could. I might do some more; however I have got other toys (E1DA Scaler arrived...) and perhaps to restore my old Linn Akito tonearm with new bearings. Don't know what to do with it though; but I once had a plan to make a bigger foundation for my Axis and have two tonearms. I have the Axis look-alike "Brinkman Avance" in mind, but just a bit bigger. Time flies.
View attachment 313398
Hey, my Scaler arrived last week! Let me know if you come across any interesting uses or results.
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I think I hit my limit with this Tacet record in terms of non-microscope set-up. I may even have to widen the hole to come close to center. My push-in every side method essentially yields the same results as the Sony above. But the 0.04% is with the record completely off-center.
I am getting a similar "indentation."
I am getting a similar "indentation."
Yes, sometimes you hit the record limit; still some 0.55 Hz signal left. Widening the hole is the only solution then. Otherwise the usual 1.1, 2.2 and probably also 3.3 Hz that is record-pressing related. Consistency is excellent as would be expected from the Denon.
The smaller peaks above those may be arm-cart related, but cannot say for sure.
Did you also see the initial higher W&F in the beginning of the sweep with the Denon (and stabilisation after a few seconds)?
I will update measurements of my Muffsy preamp tomorrow. Need a scaler for impedance matchning...
Review updated:
Muffsy phono preamplifier minireview (update)
This review was updated September 21, 2023. Main change was the use of the E1DA Scaler to fix the impedance issues that is evident when using the E1DA ADC alone. This is an attempt to make a small review with measurements of the Muffsy MM phono preamplifier. It is a DIY kit so it is far from...
www.audiosciencereview.com
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Yes. JP is correct, it is the program doing it's thing. It starts high no matter where you drop the needle. The script results are from the "higher W&F" region.
Been listening quite much yesterday and this morning, and subjectively, there is an improvement. I know it is not possible to make a proper blind test, but as far as I can hear, a better stability in pianos and similar tones, and some more detail, better "punch". Measurably the 4.16 Hz pulley wow is gone and a generally better stability/lower W&F.
I have one question regarding terminology of W&F. The peak detection can either be weighted or unweighted, and weiighted-peak method is then called Quasi-Peak. Is the weighted-peak detection always the Quasi-Peak method only or is weighted DIN peak also include the weighting frequency curves? If there is a number specified as "W&F peak (DIN)", this always mean the weighted-peak method without the weight curves?
* CCIR, IEC and DIN — weighted peak or quasi-peak (QP) *Means only peak-weighting and nothing more?
* IEC and DIN — 2-σ method (optional)
* JIS — root mean squared (RMS) *Can use weighting (WRMS) or unweighting curves (RMS)
* NAB — arithmetic mean, also sometimes RMS
* AES6–2008 — quasi-peak (same as DIN above?)
* AES6–2008 (2012) — 2-σ method (always unweighted curves?)
I have one question regarding terminology of W&F. The peak detection can either be weighted or unweighted, and weiighted-peak method is then called Quasi-Peak. Is the weighted-peak detection always the Quasi-Peak method only or is weighted DIN peak also include the weighting frequency curves? If there is a number specified as "W&F peak (DIN)", this always mean the weighted-peak method without the weight curves?
* CCIR, IEC and DIN — weighted peak or quasi-peak (QP) *Means only peak-weighting and nothing more?
* IEC and DIN — 2-σ method (optional)
* JIS — root mean squared (RMS) *Can use weighting (WRMS) or unweighting curves (RMS)
* NAB — arithmetic mean, also sometimes RMS
* AES6–2008 — quasi-peak (same as DIN above?)
* AES6–2008 (2012) — 2-σ method (always unweighted curves?)
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