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FM & AM Radio Tuner

PolkFan

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So basically the more i keep thinking what i need is a really good $100-$50 AM & FM tuner with a coaxial antenna out and a optical or coaxial digital out that i can feed into my Modi 3 dac

I want to build a beast FM & AM antenna for fun right now i have this troll dipole wire antenna that i made in 5min that is only getting 72 miles or so during the day. Sorry for the terrible room but its a cheap home building it up too but this is a fun side project for now.
 

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dougi

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It's unclear if you are looking to transmit AM and FM or receive them. If transmitting, being licensed broadcasting bands the FCC has strict limits on unlicensed use of the band, restricting such to very low power necessarily. See https://www.fcc.gov/media/radio/low-power-radio-general-information

Other countries will have similar regulations.
 

Vini darko

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I think you'll need a seperate adc converter. I've never seen a radio with AM and digital out. However such a thing may exsist o_O
 

JeffS7444

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I'm a little bit confused, because while you use the word "transmitter" repeatedly, it seems as if you are talking about receivers? Have not really tried FM DX, but from the Hawaiian islands, could pretty reliably tune into AM stations from the west coast of No. America, from Canada to Mexico, and about as far east as Salt Lake City, UT, using nothing more than the ferrite antenna built into my Grundig Satellit 700.

Have you considered a Software Defined Radio like rtl-sdr?
https://www.rtl-sdr.com/buy-rtl-sdr-dvb-t-dongles/

If you want yours as more of a standalone appliance, there's a very interesting Russian radio called "Malahit" (Malachite):
https://hamforum.ru/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=193
Lots of Chinese clones on eBay too:
 
OP
PolkFan

PolkFan

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It's unclear if you are looking to transmit AM and FM or receive them. If transmitting, being licensed broadcasting bands the FCC has strict limits on unlicensed use of the band, restricting such to very low power necessarily. See https://www.fcc.gov/media/radio/low-power-radio-general-information

Other countries will have similar regulations.

I'm very sorry i haven't been into this project in over 10 years so its been awhile i want to receive them

My brother does actually broadcast a station illeaglly however he gets like 1/4th a mile lol

But i'm not to interested in that i mainly want to receive them but i guess for a quick 30min project why not the FCC can easily find the location now a days i have no interest in doing that besides for science.


I would probably go to the middle of know where to do it too.

I live in a tiny town but its only 45 miles from flint MI.
 
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PolkFan

PolkFan

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I think you'll need a seperate adc converter. I've never seen a radio with AM and digital out. However such a thing may exsist o_O


Good point but keep in mind even a receiver has a AM & FM radio
 

RayDunzl

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I've never seen a radio with AM and digital out.

Sangean.

I have a similar Auvio. I wondered if AM and FM "analog" stations would output digits when tuned. They do.

A little reading revealed the analog signal from the antenna - maybe an incorrect description, but - is digitzed as part of the tuning/detection process (my vague understanding), so, it made sense that it could output the digits it DSP'd and/or ADC'd from the analog airwave.

Mine outputs at 16/44, though the actual content bandwidth varies with the source (and channel/subchannel on HD)

HDRadio (in the US) is a bonus there, if you have some stations that use it, though the channels are bandwidth limited.

If the full channel spectrum were used, CD "quality" could be transmitted (I think).

But stations transmitting digitally slice and dice their spectrum, selling parts of it for various uses.

---

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Audio_Broadcasting

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_Radio

https://www.denso-ten.com/business/technicaljournal/pdf/25-3.pdf
 
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PolkFan

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I'm a little bit confused, because while you use the word "transmitter" repeatedly, it seems as if you are talking about receivers? Have not really tried FM DX, but from the Hawaiian islands, could pretty reliably tune into AM stations from the west coast of No. America, from Canada to Mexico, and about as far east as Salt Lake City, UT, using nothing more than the ferrite antenna built into my Grundig Satellit 700.

Have you considered a Software Defined Radio like rtl-sdr?
https://www.rtl-sdr.com/buy-rtl-sdr-dvb-t-dongles/

If you want yours as more of a standalone appliance, there's a very interesting Russian radio called "Malahit" (Malachite):
https://hamforum.ru/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=193
Lots of Chinese clones on eBay too:


You are the best something like that is exacly what i want i haven't looked into it much but now i know where to start if you have any other things to say if you are free please mention them.

Would it be better to get that thing away from the PC with a good quality extension cable and perhaps a USB powered hub?
 

JeffS7444

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Would it be better to get that thing away from the PC with a good quality extension cable and perhaps a USB powered hub?

You're welcome. It doesn't seem to make much difference whether it's plugged directly into the computer, but I do like using a powered hub, if only to take possible strain off the computer's USB port, and because RTL-SDR runs pretty warm. I bought this one:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B011HVUEME
 

RayDunzl

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Example of Broadcast bandwidth limiting, content is "talk":

9kHz max

1600298629932.png
 
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PolkFan

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You're welcome. It doesn't seem to make much difference whether it's plugged directly into the computer, but I do like using a powered hub, if only to take possible strain off the computer's USB port, and because RTL-SDR runs pretty warm. I bought this one:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B011HVUEME
Such a cheap hobby to get into


Somehow you came in giving me exacly what i wanted haha i had almost no idea what to even ask for i do own a Modi 3 too which i forgot had multiple inputs as i only use it for the PC.

This 1976 radio gets in a LOT of channels but nothing comes in 100% clear i guess maybe FM static is always present or its just super old i mean its a GE radio i didn't even know they made things like that back in the 70's.

I'm trying to find a way to insulate the headphone jack to my objective 2 for now as i feel its giving off a lot of interference.
 
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RayDunzl

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AnalogSteph

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There is no such thing as an FM and AM antenna. The bands are literally two orders of magnitude apart in frequency and correspondly, wavelength. Hence why a compact stereo such as the one pictured above is going to have two antenna inputs - one 75 ohm coax which will take a dipole or Yagi and other such FM antennas with a balun, another being a high-impedance balanced input that takes a loop antenna for AM (which needs to be the same inductance / capacitance as the one supplied as it's usually part of a tuned circuit that is tracking the reception frequency).

Your average choona is not going to have any digital outputs, we are talking a technology that peaked in the '80s and early '90s. Expect unbalanced outputs at up to 3 kOhms of output impedance (so decent audio cable shielding and non-excessive length required), typically 750 mV out for 75 kHz of deviation on FM.

For an FM antenna - even a basic dipole - to have its intended directivity, it must be placed as freely as possible, substantially away from anything metal or solid walls. They are commonly placed on the roof (with adequate lightning protection) or at least in the attic as a result. I believe a bit of searching may well turn up a disused 3-element somewhere, maybe even something fancier (don't confuse with old TV antennas though, even if a combination wasn't too uncommon). AM loops are generally placed in reach of the user for orientation purposes. A highly directional FM antenna would generally be placed on a rotor and rotated remotely instead.

Of the FM/AM tuners you are going to find, a lot will be quite mediocre on AM. (I mean, I have pulled in stations something like 1500 km away at night with a lowly Technics SA-GX100 receiver in the past, but it wasn't the last word in selectivity.) You may have better luck finding a decent portable radio for AM purposes, especially if aided by an external tuned loop (e.g. Tecsun AN-100) for sensitivity. This makes it easier to get away from domestic interferences sources as well (or, conversely, a handy tool in identifying those).

TIC is a good source for FM tuner related info, along with the associated FMtuners group. As it is very much enthusiast territory though, you must get the basics out of the way first.
This 1976 radio gets in a LOT of channels but nothing comes in 100% clear i guess maybe FM static is always present or its just super old i mean its a GE radio i didn't even know they made things like that back in the 70's.
You don't mean the cheap-looking compact stereo pictured above though? That thing is ca. 1990 and may have been some kid's first "hi-fi" at the time.

Bad reception can have many causes:
A dipole antenna is something for people who live at most a few dozen miles away from some reasonably strong stations. It also helps not to have a POS for a choona.
In urban areas with a crowded band, overloading of the receiver can be a real issue.
You may have some interference sources near your antenna. LED lights in particular vary heavily in terms of EMI, some are dead quiet even on AM (I suppose little more than a capacitor dropper power supply) but some LED drivers have been found to be impeding radio reception even beyond the FM band (not just wiping out the AM bands as is more usual). Anything switch-mode is potentially critical.
Tuner frontend alignment might be way off. A few types of trimmer capacitors were problematic long-term.

Some personal anecdotes on interference:
Many years ago in the early 2000s I bought a reasonably fancy metal-cased Fast Ethernet switch from some eBay seller. Even got it replaced when it died (presumably capacitor plague) a few years later. That thing turned out to be shrouding my entire PC setup in a cloud of noise that would interfere with reception well into the shortwave range. Only years later did I realize that the thing did not have a CE mark on it anywhere (it would have been legally required at the time already), and a look inside revealed a lone ceramic capacitor across the line at the IEC jack for interference suppression. Yikes.
The power supply that came with my old TPLink TL-WR1043ND v1.8 WiFi router wasn't exactly too interference-free either. When the old first-generation ADSL router was retired ofter 13 years of faithful service, a conventional transformer-based power brick with decently low idle losses became available that also fit the TPLink, which made the router quiet as a mouse (you could pretty much place the receiver right next to it!) and more stable to boot.
I used to curse the countertop fluorescent lamp inthe kitchen, which was located right underneath my shortwave listening quarters at the time. When it failed years later (reduced capacitance in capacitor dropper supply), I had a look at the driver and sure enough, very minimal interference suppression on that as well.
A 2006 Panasonic plasma TV was no friend of the shortwave hobby either. Panasonic actually fixed this by 2009 through introducing all-around shielded panels, unfortunately plasmas already were on their way at by then. A preceding 1998 Sony Trinitron hadn't exactly been kind either though.

I have thankfully had very good results with retrofit Edison-style LED bulbs. Even quiter than preceding CFLs. I guess since there isn't much space in there, power supplies are minimal capacitor dropper based jobs.
 
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PolkFan

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PolkFan

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@AnalogSteph

Thank you for that i generally turn off everything at night to get rid of some of the interference

From your information i will only get a FM tuner and a portable AM tuner for now i will focus on a FM tuner can you recommend any good ones on a budget that won't be terrible i would prefer a digital tuner so bleed in won't be such an issue and yes this radio is a hand me down that was simply cheap also a combo unit as you can tell.

I'm well aware that outside antenna's are preferred and i will also try my hobby outside as well as its more fun i was just watching a man on youtube do it in a park even.

Stations to listen too are only 45 miles away but i would like to see how far i can get channels i'm already picking up channels from 70 miles away its very easy but i want to get stations 45 miles away in clear as clear as i can and record music even on my PC during the day or night.

I was just for fun using 2 metal poles and moving them around and boy does it pick up the movement on the radio in my whole room lol.

I really enjoy playing around with this as i always did even when i was 5 with my first pioneer receiver(Pro logic 1.0 baby!) but i got away from the hobby and into PC's at age 13 and built my own using only dial-up so pure reading as i perfer anyways i watch youtube for entertainment and some idea's.

I guess i can say where i live its Lapeer county in Michigan and flint is only 30-45 miles away where most stations are.
93.7
96.1
98.1
102.5
105.5
107.9


Already getting every detroit channel in some more clear then even closer ones probably the night as its already 9:30PM here.

I only have a dipole wire antenna so far made it bigger its 118 inches both ways and a straight cable down to the radio.

I guess using the right terminology would help sorry my brother is into this hobby as well but bought his own antenna's(boring to me) but i have no up stairs in this home but there is a small tiny attack both sides of the wall lead to the outside world not another bedroom where the current dipole antenna is.

Once i get this radio set up i'll be painting this room and redoing it kind of don't want to show how terrible it looks trying to do some quick clean ups first.

But yeah its 120 inches both ways and i have thick copper wire.


Thank you so much for the read i mean it! I'm one of those people who really enjoys reading and talking about this stuff so if you have ANY advise please continue to give it to me or PM me.

I was thinking about using metal poles and wrapping the wire around it to boost it further.

My brother bought clear stream antenna's which i recommended to him and they work great for DTV but not much else they are bidirectional which as you probably know only go so far.

Also i live at the tip of lapeer county which is pretty much 10 miles away from anything even a McDonald's . We have a gas station and a bar and not much else. To say a little about myself i was a boozer for 7 years of my life and i quit for a whole year now and i'm just trying to keep busy during this virus and never touch that poison again.
 
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PolkFan

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https://radiojayallen.com/sangean-hdt-20-am-fm-hd-tuner/

Ah this is closer to what i want but a bit cheaper would be nice

HD Radio ah i forgot all about you. I feel like i've been living in a cave.


Has optical feedout which can go to my DAC

Now time to find one for $100 lol.

Really don't have that much $$$ for just a radio plus i'm going to get a bunch of materals to make my own antenna's.

Thinking about making a fractal antenna as well.

I did find a better radio(Sony DVD combo the DVD player broke it has a coaxial 75ohm out though even a screw on for the FM antenna out) in the barn though has a digital screen and a remote and was made in 2003.
 
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PolkFan

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To add a bit of nothing i have 17 channels from just using 2 grills and foil with squares taped on WTF those are DTV channels, that's better then my moms 50$ indoor POS.

Next step replace the lame squares with fractals

Antenna's are easy they are all 30+ miles away according to TVFOOL.

VHF high and UHF so far i did get channel 4 in once tho.

I do not have a transformer yet i have to make my own going to use a 1 inch pipe(paper towel role) with wire wrapped around it 12 times both ways should do it if i remember correctly. Right now i have the coaxial cable with the copper end on one antenna and the second antenna on the foil part with tape and wire lol have both of them hanged on the highest part of the ceiling with a nail.

Very easy to do. Next step is to continue to improve it i have a compass and the direction of the channels in. Trying to mock clearstream's antenna myself.

I will not even buy one hell i should just make my own radio too with spare parts. I remember i did make a crystal radio and captured the current into a cap and recharged some batteries took some time but this $hit is so much fun to me.
 

JeffS7444

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For what it's worth, the HDradio format has been reverse-engineered, and so long as you have the proper codec installed on your computer, there's no reason why you couldn't use a software defined radio here too: You can certainly see the digital channels on the sidebands of the main broadcast signal. I think the original purpose of devices like RTL-SDR was as tv tuners, so I guess with the right software, ATSC dtv transmissions ought to be fine too. Used to have another one which came bundled with my old HP notebook but never did much with it because I got no line-of-sight path to any transmitters, so my over the air dtv reception is pretty much nil.
 

Neddy

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