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Extreme Snake Oil

Naw dog. You such an asshole to people trying to nicely answer you in this thread, you get zero fucking slack. Understand me? You act like an ass in public and expect everybody to grow up to your level. I meet you at your level.

Also, your explanations are hollow, lack any physical understanding.
Uhm I guess you're too busy patting yourself on the back than to actually pay attention to what I said and wrote.

But then again... to you all USB-C cables are the same.
 
Uhm I guess you're too busy patting yourself on the back than to actually pay attention to what I said and wrote.

But then again... to you all USB-C cables are the same.
No, I read it. Glad you made cheap cables, they are the way to go, pat yourself on the back for that, for sure. Glad you posted electrical measurements, which brings clarity. You have low inductance cables, on the order of a few tenths of uH of inductance, hooked up to speakers with Henrys of driver and crossover inductance. I hope you appreciate that micro-H of inductance is negligible. To drive the point, here is the effect of much larger parasitic cable inductances on a driver with a 6dB/octave crossover at 1.2kHz:
1736402308199.png



Zoom in to see the actual difference:
1736402518749.png


100uH of cable gets you a 0.3dB change at 1.2kHz, close to 1dB at higher frequencies. If you listened closely, likely you could hear the 100uH cable. No way the 10uH is even dimly audible. The cables you are comparing are around 1uH total. None are audibly distinguishable by the inductance or other electrical properties in the lengths you are working with.

This is an example of something that is easily measurable and absolutely inaudible.

edit: typo
 
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This is an example of something that is easily measurable and absolutely inaudible.
Why do you keep feeding the troll. He cant understand any off it.

Is there a new learning disability that effects audiophools?

"Learning Disabilities refer to a number of disorders which may affect the acquisition, organization, retention, UNDERSTANDING or use of verbal or nonverbal information. These disorders affect learning in individuals who otherwise demonstrate at least average abilities essential for thinking and/or reasoning."

We see it over and over where no amount of information, measurements, scientific theory, common sense will educate them.
 
A bit of difference. Why? Better quality shielding and materials.
No difference at all - at least not coming from the sound waves reaching your ears.. An audible difference in a USB cable means that some bits have been flipped. If bits are getting flipped it doesn't make a small difference to tonality, or air or soundstage, or any of that nonsense. It causes dropouts, pops and crackles.

Same with the rest of your cable stuff. None of the things you are changing are changing enough to maka an audible difference. So what is going on with those differences you are hearing?

we know that our hearing is subject to perceptive bias (call it cognitive bias, or expectation bias if you like). What we hear is impacted by what we know, what we believe, how we feel, our life experiences, what we see etc etc. No-one is immune to this if they are human - it is how we are built. In fact we would be unable to function if our senses were not filtered by our subconscious brain. Everyone is subject to this, it happens at the subconscious level, and it is not possible to avoid it - even when we are aware it is happening.

So when we see someone state that they hear differences between cables where the engineering, science and measurements all tell us that is impossible or vanishingly unlikely - do we just take the statement at face value - or do we attribute it to the fact that the listener is being fooled by his (humanities) very fallible auditory system?
 
Why do you keep feeding the troll. He cant understand any off it.

Is there a new learning disability that effects audiophools?

"Learning Disabilities refer to a number of disorders which may affect the acquisition, organization, retention, UNDERSTANDING or use of verbal or nonverbal information. These disorders affect learning in individuals who otherwise demonstrate at least average abilities essential for thinking and/or reasoning."

We see it over and over where no amount of information, measurements, scientific theory, common sense will educate them.
I'm trying to walk that fine line between being helpful and being a jerk. :cool:
 
I'm trying to walk that fine line between being helpful and being a jerk. :cool:

So am I. But sometimes it reaches the point where "being a jerk" is the only reasonable response :)
 
We all know that snake oilers can be very convincing and use rhetorical tactics that many well-meaning customers cannot cope with. Once you have accepted their arguments, it is difficult for third parties to penetrate this indoctrination with real facts. Often the victims have also turned themselves into perpetrators by recommending or even sub-selling these products to others. Then it is no longer about facts, but about personal honor. Nobody wants to publicly admit that they have been spreading complete nonsense for years, so that miracle cable sellers could enrich themselves at the expense of gullible people.

I see this behavior again and again, whether it is with people who believe in alternative practitioners, stone pendulums, but also useless petrol and oil additives, miracle spark plugs or earth wave protection devices. Just to list a few of them. People even put their life into the hands of such crooks, ignoring modern medicine.
 
We all know that snake oilers can be very convincing and use rhetorical tactics that many well-meaning customers cannot cope with. Once you have accepted their arguments, it is difficult for third parties to penetrate this indoctrination with real facts. Often the victims have also turned themselves into perpetrators by recommending or even sub-selling these products to others. Then it is no longer about facts, but about personal honor. Nobody wants to publicly admit that they have been spreading complete nonsense for years, so that miracle cable sellers could enrich themselves at the expense of gullible people.

I see this behavior again and again, whether it is with people who believe in alternative practitioners, stone pendulums, but also useless petrol and oil additives, miracle spark plugs or earth wave protection devices. Just to list a few of them. People even put their life into the hands of such crooks, ignoring modern medicine.
All of the above and to add to the list people wish something to be good by constantly thinking about the thing, justifying why they want it, dreaming of how and why it is better and making up stuff to justify buying it. I've done it and other people have done it that I know. What could be better than a simple MOD of using a sooper dooper gizmo wire that miraculously stops bad stuff and promotes all the good stuff and the mystery of the electrons. This and one of the driving factors of many purchases is people that want to be part of the technology and so they purchase it to become experts in that.
 
I am saying they all sound the same providing the circuitry data rate does not exceed the cables maximum data rate because then the digital square wave will be distorted beyond salvageability.

The amount of power has nothing to do with data rates and purity of square wave other than maybe introducing a little reactance and as I showed in the previous post that this is dealt with by the waveform only being a 1 or a zero at the very peaks of the waveform. The power conductor is for power and it is not for data transmission. They are separate things unrelated to each other.

So the sound quality is either ON or OFF when operating and when it is ON the digital waveform is of a good enough shape resembling a square wave that you will hear music for example. If the digital waveform square wave is too distorted then the circuitry will not be able to trigger or latch on the waveform rising and trailing edges and then the music simply stops and goes OFF. There is no state where the music sounds more live, musical, punchy etc.
Agree. It works or it doesn't. There's no in between.
 
I am happily staying out if this. You guys have gone to the trouble of even posting graphs and pages from a digital theory book. I am impressed! A few years ago I too would have jumped in with both feet and posted a bunch of stuff. Now, I just sit back and watch you younger pups do it. I tell you all, you have given the guy massive amounts of info that he is wrong and/or doesn't understand how digital works. Good work guys!
 
You are all wrong.
I bought 2 USB cables with gold plated connectors and shielded black wires ($6 each for 2 meters) and the sound and data are darker but at the same time brighter than the blue one I was given whose plugs are gray (probably silver plating!) where there the sound is veiled and the data rather zöµmpäfÿ.
Besides a study by my grandmother proves it.
And here it is!
 
I am happily staying out if this. You guys have gone to the trouble of even posting graphs and pages from a digital theory book. I am impressed! A few years ago I too would have jumped in with both feet and posted a bunch of stuff. Now, I just sit back and watch you younger pups do it. I tell you all, you have given the guy massive amounts of info that he is wrong and/or doesn't understand how digital works. Good work guys!
Gee.. I can go and dig out my old Stallings Text from ~40yrs ago and show the same diagrams.
(I think that was the text from my data communications course. )

But what is missing is the reading comprehension by several here.

What I said was that there were differences in the USB-C cables.
A basic USB-C cable $4.95 from Ali-Express will sound differently than a $20.00 USB-C 4 cable on the Onix Alpha Xi1,
Why? Build quality for one. Power delivery as well as both cables are built to two different specs.

And if you owned the Alpha, you'd know about the power issues. And how that impacts the sound quality.

And of course if you go back to my original post... There are differences and they will impact sound quality to a point.
I am talking about a $4.95 USB-C vs a $20.00 USB-C 4 cable rated for more power and better throughput.

I am not suggesting going out and spending $$$ for an 'audiophile grade' cable (Not even sure what that means.) I am saying that the quality of the cable will impact sound to a point.


You can disagree with me.
But the fact that you're not paying attention to what is being said just helps to show why people tend to avoid this site. (And while I infrequently visit.)
 
A basic USB-C cable $4.95 from Ali-Express will sound differently than a $20.00 USB-C 4 cable on the Onix Alpha Xi1,
Can you point me to where that's been demonstrated?
 
Can you point me to where that's been demonstrated?
Have you not been paying attention?
Or can't you read?

Clearly not.
[edit]
The first clue... there is a difference between the specs.
You're the 'technical expert'.
Ok... so how many different USB-C specs are there? And what's the difference in those specs?

And here's another question... You have a macbook pro that has a USB-C 4 port (Thunderbolt). Now if you use a USB-C cable it will work, right?
But what happens to the throughput versus a USB-C 4 cable?

And again... the Alpha's power issue is documented in the thread I alluded to.
 
Have you not been paying attention?
Or can't you read?
Please help me out here- where has is been demonstrated? All I've seen is assertion, so somewhere, someone must have done an actual test and I've just missed it, right?
 
I'd buy a 10GbE switch over an 'audiophile' switch because the 10GbE switch has a better clock than your 1GbE switches.
(If you're buying decent kit.)
10GbE supports up to 1250 MBytes per second so way over spec'ed for audio (which typically might be around 5 MBytes per second)

So tell me how an audio stream (where even a DSD or upsampled PCM stream might touch 10MBytes per second) benefits from a 10GbE switch that has a FASTER (not better) clock simply because it's dealing with higher throughput. The precision of a clock between a 1gb and 10gb switch is the same and 1Gbit is plenty for audio where in the worst case you are using a max of 10% of the available throughput.

And no matter the clock speed/precision in a switch, it cant contribute to better sound (like it might in a serial protocol such as SP/DIF) cause the data sent is packetized meaning that the data packets may or may not arrive in order...thats the design of ethernet and TCP/IP... clocks dont matter outside of being fast enough to support the required throughput.

Ya spouting BS.

Peter (retired 40+ year veteran Unix/Linux TCP/IP developer focused on mission critical/systems level enterprise applications)
 
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Peter (retired 40+ year veteran Unix/Linux TCP/IP developer focused on mission critical/systems level enterprise applications)
And Sys a Phd in physics and a few EEs have replied but hey we dont own a Onix Alpha Xi1, so we have no idea what we are talking about.
 
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Gee.. I can go and dig out my old Stallings Text from ~40yrs ago and show the same diagrams.
(I think that was the text from my data communications course. )
As mentioned that is information from the introduction of a Digital Fundamentals textbook and if it is so simple and you know it so well why did you not say that?
 
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