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As long as the connection and shielding is of a good connection there will be no intermittent connection that may interrupt the digital data transmission. Even if there where some slight distortion induced due to a poor connection there are safeguards in the data transmission technology that prevent this from being heard and it can only be noticed by it either working or not working. There is no in the middle distortion zone; only ON or OFF. This operational mode where the signal is not working is called the indecisive zone. I post a couple of pdf pages from a Digital Fundamentals textbook of about 953 pages and this information is from Introduction pages. So this is basic digital transmission understanding and then from there it gets pretty technical. The images detail the zone where a distorted data transmission square wave are not perfect square waves because they are not and in fact some are pretty rounded off and distorted but the system still works because the technology has safeguards designed into it to prevent distortion and quality of cable from affecting the data transmission. So... If you could please read this I hope that you can understand that cable quality, increased data cable rate specification that exceeds the required amount are not factors in sound quality of digital data transmission.
And if all you need is 200mb/s and 5W you get nothing more from these other cables and there will be zero audible difference. Learn the basics of digital transmission.
Or in networking. A CAT-3 cable is just as good as CAT-5 which is just as good as either a CAT-7 or CAT-8. After all its all just a copper cable w an RJ-45 connection on it, right?
So all the banks that are still using cat-3 cables are miss placing peoples money? If your within the bandwidth the data is identical. Repeating the same nonsense, yes nonsense over and over dosnt make it right. Again learn the basics.
This battle of wits with an unarmed man is over.
I am saying they all sound the same providing the circuitry data rate does not exceed the cables maximum data rate because then the digital square wave will be distorted beyond salvageability.
The amount of power has nothing to do with data rates and purity of square wave other than maybe introducing a little reactance and as I showed in the previous post that this is dealt with by the waveform only being a 1 or a zero at the very peaks of the waveform. The power conductor is for power and it is not for data transmission. They are separate things unrelated to each other.
So the sound quality is either ON or OFF when operating and when it is ON the digital waveform is of a good enough shape resembling a square wave that you will hear music for example. If the digital waveform square wave is too distorted then the circuitry will not be able to trigger or latch on the waveform rising and trailing edges and then the music simply stops and goes OFF. There is no state where the music sounds more live, musical, punchy etc.
So all the banks that are still using cat-3 cables are miss placing peoples money? If your within the bandwidth the data is identical. Repeating the same nonsense, yes nonsense over and over dosnt make it right. Again learn the basics.
This battle of wits with an unarmed man is over.
Clearly you didn't read what I wrote.
And in your mind all USB-C cables are the same.
I chose this example to show you that while there is snake-oil... there are actual examples of where components like cables can impact the quality of sound in certain situations.
I am saying they all sound the same providing the circuitry data rate does not exceed the cables maximum data rate because then the digital square wave will be distorted beyond salvageability.
The amount of power has nothing to do with data rates and purity of square wave other than maybe introducing a little reactance and as I showed in the previous post that this is dealt with by the waveform only being a 1 or a zero at the very peaks of the waveform. The power conductor is for power and it is not for data transmission. They are separate things unrelated to each other.
So the sound quality is either ON or OFF when operating and when it is ON the digital waveform is of a good enough shape resembling a square wave that you will hear music for example. If the digital waveform square wave is too distorted then the circuitry will not be able to trigger or latch on the waveform rising and trailing edges and then the music simple stops and goes OFF. There is no state where the music sounds more live, musical, punchy etc.
And that would be wrong.
You clearly focused on one thing. Data Rate.
You didn't pay attention to the power issue.
I even gave you an example of the power being supplied to the dongle did in fact affect the sound.
And I even pointed out that its a known issue.
The Alpha is an example of where power delivered matters. It has issues w certain brands of phones where the phone fails to provide adequate power.
As I said in my own experiment, I only heard a difference between the iphone and then everything else where they all sounded the same. The only difference was the amount of power being provided.
And that would be wrong.
You clearly focused on one thing. Data Rate.
You didn't pay attention to the power issue.
I even gave you an example of the power being supplied to the dongle did in fact affect the sound.
And I even pointed out that its a known issue.
The Alpha is an example of where power delivered matters. It has issues w certain brands of phones where the phone fails to provide adequate power.
As I said in my own experiment, I only heard a difference between the iphone and then everything else where they all sounded the same. The only difference was the amount of power being provided.
The power conductor is not a data conductor. They are separate things and the power conductor does not affect sound quality unless there is a ON or OFF mode due to insufficient power supply in whatever is being powered by the USB cable conductor. The focus on the power conductor in the USB cable is not related to the digital data transmission through the cable. They are totally separate things in the domains of data transmission and DC voltage power transfer.
Here is a USB-C termination. It can be seen that there are 4 voltage power supply pins and the rest are for data or other digital switching operations.
I chose this example to show you that while there is snake-oil... there are actual examples of where components like cables can impact the quality of sound in certain situations.
Wow, under powering a device is bad. Thanks for that. Guess what its not the cable.
You have not shown anything except your opinions which are nonsense
The power conductor is not a data conductor. They are separate things and the power conductor does not affect sound quality unless there is a ON or OFF mode due to insufficient power supply in whatever is being powered by the USB cable conductor. The focus on the power conductor in the USB cable is not related to the digital data transmission through the cable. They are totally separate things in the domains of data transmission and DC voltage power transfer.
No it isn't.
But its part of the same cable, right?
And yes, the power does impact the quality of the sound.
Again this is a known issue w the Alpha which is a bit power hungry.
As I said. Not all phones can power it.
So you're now backtracking from my example.
I showed you where the cable matters w the Alpha.
Clearly you don't own the Alpha which is a $109 dongle dac that sounds great if it works w your equipment.
As I said... the quality of the components matter to a point.
I'd spend $25.00 on a quality USB-C 4 cable but I wouldn't spend $$$ for an 'audiophile cable'.
I'd buy a 10GbE switch over an 'audiophile' switch because the 10GbE switch has a better clock than your 1GbE switches.
(If you're buying decent kit.)
Not all USB-C cables are the same.
And if lamp wire was good enough... why do speaker and amp manufacturers twist their wires inside the amps?
The reason snake oil works is that while there are obvious examples of why components matter, those pushing snake oil take it to the extreme where you're long past the point of diminishing returns.
But hey, what do I know? Like its all nonsense right?
And that would be wrong.
You clearly focused on one thing. Data Rate.
You didn't pay attention to the power issue.
I even gave you an example of the power being supplied to the dongle did in fact affect the sound.
And I even pointed out that its a known issue.
The Alpha is an example of where power delivered matters. It has issues w certain brands of phones where the phone fails to provide adequate power.
As I said in my own experiment, I only heard a difference between the iphone and then everything else where they all sounded the same. The only difference was the amount of power being provided.
Those USBC power lines are not used to carry audio data.
Those big & thick USBC power cables are definitely useful, if one needs to supply huge amount of power to devices like laptop, tablet.
Audio data goes on the TX/RX differential lines.
If there are any data transfer issues due to cable quality, it'll result in brief data loss, and we'll hear it as intermittent brief audio drop outs.
(I have encountered this before because my USB2 cable is very long - 8M; I solved it by changing to a 10M long USB3 cable with far better quality repeater)
If data is transferred successfully with no errors, all the 01010101010101001 in the DAC incoming buffer will be exactly the same as the data inside the USB outgoing buffer. Nothing would have been changed by the cable.
Those USBC power lines are not used to carry audio data.
Those big & thick USBC power cables are definitely useful, if one needs to supply huge amount of power to devices like laptop, tablet.
Audio data goes on the TX/RX differential lines.
If there are any data transfer issues due to cable quality, it'll result in brief data loss, and we'll hear it as intermittent brief audio drop outs.
No they don't carry the audio data.
I never said they did.
I said that the cable did... which contains the power and the audio data.
And the power impacts the quality of the sound w dongle dacs.
As to oh we'll hear some audio drop outs... hmm isn't that part of the sound quality?
But that's different from the variance in voltage.
Like I said. I've tested it. YMMV when it comes to the power provided by your phone vs other sources.
Not all phones are built to deliver power to spec. And the spec itself provides a range of acceptable values.
Now I heard the difference between the phone only and the other tests. But the rest sounded the same.
This is different from one of the other alpha owners who swore that using his wall wart gave even better sound.
(Which I can't confirm because I didn't hear it w my setup. )
BTW, you can go out on YT and see actual tests between speaker cables along w some sites where you do DIY and they talk about differences between speaker wire.
(impedance, resistance)
Now while I used the USB-C as an example... the key take away is that the parts do matter.
And this is key. Once you admit to it... you'll start to understand how snake oil works.
You take the simple truth that the quality of components matter.
That better components cost more money.
You can't deny the truth to that. (After all what speakers do you own? ) [C'mon Cbdb2, spill it.]
So, they sell you on the fact that they use the better than best components and thus you'll get the best possible sound.
Ignoring of course that there's a law of diminishing returns.
I got a blender from them. When I plug it into a 20 Amp circuit, the smoothies taste better compared to those made with the same blender on a 15 Amp circuit. Sounds better too.
Perhaps you can educate us as to what electrically is going on, since you are the Onix Alpha. Also please educate us as to the speaker cable effect you see in the YouTube videos...
I got a blender from them. When I plug it into a 20 Amp circuit, the smoothies taste better compared to those made with the same blender on a 15 Amp circuit. Sounds better too.
Perhaps you can educate us as to what electrically is going on, since you are the Onix Alpha. Also please educate us as to the speaker cable effect you see in the YouTube videos...
I got a blender from them. When I plug it into a 20 Amp circuit, the smoothies taste better compared to those made with the same blender on a 15 Amp circuit. Sounds better too.
Perhaps you can educate us as to what electrically is going on, since you are the Onix Alpha. Also please educate us as to the speaker cable effect you see in the YouTube videos...
Step by step isntuctions outlining the construction of braided Low-Inductance speaker cables.
diyaudioprojects.com
This is actually an example of a reasonably priced DIY build.
Now look at table 2 at the bottom.
Also look at the fact that he braided his wires.
Again simple wire ... not your lamp cord.
As to the Alpha... there's a whole thread over at Head-Fi.org on the alpha, its issues and some of the measurements that users have taken from their devices.
I missed that. Maybe the dongle DAC power supply section isn't that good and susceptible to voltage fluctuations. USB power is notorious to be noisy with voltage variability.
Yes it is, just only one aspect of sound quality. Sound quality has broad meaning ... including tonality, attack, decay, background noise, imaging, soundstage, etc....
But that's different from the variance in voltage.
Like I said. I've tested it. YMMV when it comes to the power provided by your phone vs other sources.
Not all phones are built to deliver power to spec. And the spec itself provides a range of acceptable values.
Now I heard the difference between the phone only and the other tests. But the rest sounded the same.
This is different from one of the other alpha owners who swore that using his wall wart gave even better sound.
(Which I can't confirm because I didn't hear it w my setup. )
BTW, you can go out on YT and see actual tests between speaker cables along w some sites where you do DIY and they talk about differences between speaker wire.
(impedance, resistance)
Now while I used the USB-C as an example... the key take away is that the parts do matter.
And this is key. Once you admit to it... you'll start to understand how snake oil works.
You take the simple truth that the quality of components matter.
That better components cost more money.
Yes, I understand how snake oil works.
If I come across a US$2000 USB cable, I don't even need to check the specs, component quality, etc... I already know it is snake oil.
My intuition so far has not failed me. For example: https://www.futureshop.co.uk/nordost-valhalla-2-type-a-to-type-b-usb-cable
Step by step isntuctions outlining the construction of braided Low-Inductance speaker cables.
diyaudioprojects.com
This is actually an example of a reasonably priced DIY build.
Now look at table 2 at the bottom.
Also look at the fact that he braided his wires.
Again simple wire ... not your lamp cord.
As to the Alpha... there's a whole thread over at Head-Fi.org on the alpha, its issues and some of the measurements that users have taken from their devices.
I think the general tone of your commentary to all involved including me is such that I will not be trying to educate you any further. Yes, a MOD could step in and thread ban you.
Naw dog. You such an asshole to people trying to nicely answer you in this thread, you get zero fucking slack. Understand me? You act like an ass in public and expect everybody to grow up to your level. I meet you at your level.
Also, your explanations are hollow, lack any physical understanding.
I never said you said so. I just clarified that power delivery & data delivery are on separate lines.
I missed that. Maybe the dongle DAC power supply section isn't that good and susceptible to voltage fluctuations. USB power is notorious to be noisy with voltage variability.
Yes it is, just only one aspect of sound quality. Sound quality has broad meaning ... including tonality, attack, decay, background noise, imaging, soundstage, etc....
Good for you.
Yes, parts quality do matter for sure.
Yes, I understand how snake oil works.
If I come across a US$2000 USB cable, I don't even need to check the specs, component quality, etc... I already know it is snake oil.
My intuition so far has not failed me. For example: https://www.futureshop.co.uk/nordost-valhalla-2-type-a-to-type-b-usb-cable
Ok,
So that's the thing.
Here we have several people who are like its all snake oil... lamp cord is good enough. You don't need to spend $ for quality parts.
I provided a specific example where a difference in a cable can be heard. (And no Doodski, I'm trying to educate you.)
Parts do matter.
That doesn't mean you have to go out and buy 'audiophile' approved kit.
I used the example of buying a 10GbE network switch if you wanted a better clock signal rather than spend $$$ for a 1GbE w a better clock.
I even posted an example of a guy who DIY cables and showed measurements.
Note that he used bulk wire and braided them.
From the site:
The idea behind this speaker cable design is fairly simple. Four 16 gauge wires (resulting in a combined 10AWG) are used for each speaker conductor to lower the overall resistance of the speaker cable. With regards to the speaker cable geometry, the wires are twisted together in opposite directions (see photos and description for more details). This helps reduces asymmetrical field interactions since the wires are not on either the inside or outside of the cable more than any other wire. It also helps to keep the inductance of the overall speaker cable at a minimum. For speaker cables, low-inductance is required to prevent attenuation of the high-frequency response within the audible range
Where they sell it for either $3.25 or $5.50 per foot.
That's $110 for 20ft of cable to make a pair of 10' cables.
Now I could go out and buy the bulk wire... but then how much is my time worth taking the time to braid the cables?
So is it worth it for me to buy the already braided cable?
All said and done.. you're going to be spending at least $150 to $175 for all of the components depending on how you finish them and the quality of the banana plugs.
Blue Jean Cables using Canare 4S11 cable will set you back roughly $120.
To several here. That's snake oil because you can get sound using lamp cable.
www.usb.org
