Questions about different types of binding post and is it truth or snake oil?

[Jeff M.]

Good evening Everyone. Well here goes another post am very interested in getting some clarification and maybe some new info on this topic. Here goes. So I have heard for years that gold plated brass is the better metal to use for binding post not nickel plated brass or silver plated brass. So a few years back some new types of binding post has come into the market. Some claim to have pure copper only and real gold plated or silver plated or Rohodium plated. Some claim to do the cyro freeze on binding post and sell them? I have looked into a lot of the binding post claiming they use copper and it’s Red copper. Then the magnetic issue with cheap steel binding post. Can anyone explain this or has there been a test about this subject? There are so many advertisements on this but, very little information on testing on the subject. Is it snake oil or is there some truth to it? Jeff

 

[SIY]

Is it snake oil

Basically. The important issues are mechanical integrity and corrosion resistance.

For my speakers, I use brass. No plating.

 

[NTK]

Here are the comparisons between two amps based on the same (I think) Purifi module (1ET400A). The bottom one used steel FASTON terminals which are magnetic and caused distortions at power levels >5 W. The effect is measurable, but is entirely inaudible. This is probably the worst case since steel terminals are incorrectly used.

 

[restorer-john]

For my speakers, I use brass. No plating.

Special contact cleaner required:

 

[Somafunk]

Whatever you use crank them damn tight with a set of mole/vice grips till you hear a crack, then back off half a turn - that’s always worked for me.


****no….do not do this****

 

[Jeff M.]

Special contact cleaner required:

View attachment 405957

Basically. The important issues are mechanical integrity and corrosion resistance.

For my speakers, I use brass. No plating.

So do you have to clean them every now and then? Do they turn green? Just asking?

 

[restorer-john]

So do you have to clean them every now and then? Do they turn green? Just asking?

We have "vintage"* brass lightswitches/power points all through our house, and they can be polished, but I just don't care anymore. It's painful and exhausting as you can't machine polish those shapes easily. There's way too many of them to bother.

*made on the original equipment with the same materials but 'only' about 25 years old in this house. They are identical to the 60-70+ year old originals.

 

[Jeff M.]

We have "vintage"* brass lightswitches/power points all through our house, and they can be polished, but I just don't care anymore. It's painful and exhausting as you can't machine polish those shapes easily. There's way too many of them to bother.

View attachment 405958

*made on the original equipment with the same materials but 'only' about 25 years old in this house. They are identical to the 60-70+ year old originals.

Wow that’s really something. I think it’s really cool . Thanks for sharing and including the picture.
P.s. That’s more of a real product than these days. Definitely keepers.

 

[restorer-john]

P.s. That’s more of a real product than these days. Definitely keepers.

They fit the style of the house, and they are super tough, but periodically I need to dismantle some of the heavily used kitchen switches and clean the brass & copper "teeter totter" contacts. Easy to do as they completely come apart and go back together. And if someone blows out a contact, the switch can be rotated 180 degrees to use the unused "spare set" of contacts.

 

[kemmler3D]

As @SIY says, you want them to stay attached / tight and not corrode over time. For this I think gold plated has some advantage. But worst case you should just clean off the oxidation once in a while.

The rest of the claims you hear about different metals doing this or that to the sound are just snake oil.

 

[Chrispy]

LOL funniest thing I've seen today.

 

[OldHvyMec]

It's real simple, yellow copper, red copper, or yellow copper, red copper with gold or silver plating. The better binding post have pretty thick plating.

Rhodium is great if you're in salt water or high PH or low PH environments. They were used a lot in environmental plugs. Rhodium is also harder than the
hubs of hell and its pretty low on the conductivity scale.

I always use a homemade enhancer and I apply a thin coat with a flux brush. Nuclear Never-seize and @2000 graphite.
About a 50/50 mix and thin with a little WD40 or Liquid Wrench if it's to thick.

When the WD/LW evaporates the mixture stays where you put it even if there is a LOT of vibration. It's also a torque lube.

You tighten the binding post with the spade, eyelet or bare wire a few times (not excessive but to seat the two surfaces) and slowly put a final
torque. You can use the enhancer just on the mating surfaces an put Loctite on the threads. I use blue or red, especially if its yellow/red copper
or pure silver. Brass usually has enough lube to stop the threads from galding. The softer the parent material the more surface area you'll wind up
with if you slow torque the nut, BUT you can pull or stretch the threads.

I always use Loctite on bass cables and NEVER get sloppy with the enhancer. Apply, torque and wipe. If its close to sea air, topcoat the connections
and wipe any excess off.

I NEVER use aluminum or aluminum/copper clad cable, crimps, spades, or eyelets on stereo gear. Your just asking for problems.

Regards

 

[sam_adams]

Plating using gold, silver, nickel, or rhodium requires that whatever the base metal is, there must be a passivation layer between the base metal and the plating to prevent or reduce base metal corrosion. We saw the effects of the lack of a passivation layer on a gold plated connector in the Audioquest GO-4 Speaker Cable Review discussion. See this for some links to quick reads on silver and gold plating.

Rhodium is the new boutique plating metal. It's rarer than gold. It's more expensive than gold. It is harder than gold. But, it has lower conductivity than gold. Probably you'd want to avoid connectors using it.

Most adequately made gold plated connectors will have nickel passivation layer over the base metal. That layer is usually nickel. Since nickel has a lower conductivity than gold, it probably negates the conductivity advantage of gold. So the gold is there only to prevent the corrosion or oxidation of the nickel.

Red copper as a base metal seems to be a recent thing regarding audio connectors. It seems to be largely present in offerings from Chinese suppliers (It could be that it is sourced from recycled copper—I don't know if that is the case.). Red copper has a slightly higher level of impurities than either ETP or OFC copper with the accompanying lower conductivity. For our concerns, it's unknown if there would be any measurable differences between those three types of copper base metals when used in connectors.

Cryo-treating is pure marketing BS and can be ignored.

 

[pablolie]

It just shows it was potentially engineered with a 360 view on not neglecting any visible design angle. Maybe.

 

[dualazmak]

Just for your reference, some links to my posts on my project thread...

- VCT (vinyl Cabtyre) multicore flexible cables (AWG10, AWG12) for amplifiers into speaker drivers: #028, #137

- Elimination of magnetic susceptible metals in SP signal handling: #250, #013(remote thread), #931

Spoiler

In my post #931, I wrote;
I still keep the currently-not-in-use "LCR passive network in outer-box " (ref. #5) for easy and smooth role back of the whole audio system into my reference single-amplifier (ACCUPHASE E-460) passive configuration together with the connection changes on the "SP cabling boards".

I once have tested “Multi-Terminal Electromagnetic Relay” and “Multi-Terminal Snap-Toggle Switch” for this purpose (i.e. switching the wires between passive and active SP modes), but I found they gave some “uncleanliness and/or distortions” to the total sound. Consequently, I believe that the “physical screw-up cabling connections” like in these SP cabling boards should be the best way to go with. I carefully and completely eliminated, therefore, any magnetic susceptible (magnetizable) metal, such as screws, Y-lugs, metal plate on terminal straps, etc. in SP high-level signal wiring; please refer to my post #4, #250 and posts #013(remote thread), #023(remote thread) and here #9(remote thread).

You would please be reminded "the typical issue case" in this regard (even with no relation at all to my project thread) happened with first version of BUCKEYE 3 Channel Purifi Amplifier in which measurable (and I think audible) distortion was caused by iron (steel) plates at the SP binding posts, then BUCKEYE quickly and nicely replaced the parts with brass plates by a kind of recall announcement; please refer to the specific thread on that amplifier, amirm’s first review pointing the issue, as well as his second preferrable review on the fixed/revised amplifier.

Furthermore, in my post #9 on a remote thread "Ferromagnetic materials in audio connectors", I also wrote as follows;
If you take a look inside some rather high-end HiFi amplifiers, you'll see that the SP output wiring (and power wiring?) uses non-magnetic terminals and screws made of brass (no iron at all) or pure copper. However, this is also a common-sense measure to prevent sound quality deterioration in HiFi amplifiers. I remember it being pointed out and explained in interviews with a Yamaha amplifier designer and a Rotel engineer. It is frustrating when working with magnetized screwdrivers (screwdrivers) because you can't catch the screws, though. Yamaha's and Rotel's amplifier designers had a hard time persuading the assembly workers at the amplifier factories, but in the end, they convinced them to use non-magnetic terminals and screws, giving priority to sound quality; I've also heard that the screwdriver, which uses a chuck to fix screws and bolts to the tip, was devised so that it could be used in factories. In my DIY audio setup, I have the same thing; I strictly/completely eliminate/avoid any magnetizable metal/screw in my SP cabling/connecting.

- Semiannual complete cleaning of all the metal-to-metal connectors: #671, #676

- Semi-annual intensive cleaning of all the metal-to-metal connectors/contacts, and complete renewal of all the tin-electroplated copper terminals with heat-shrink insulators: #895

- You should never solder the crimped spade terminals: #904

- Renewal of SP cabling boards beside SP systems: #906

 

[SIY]

So do you have to clean them every now and then? Do they turn green? Just asking?

So far, after having my stock of terminals for 15 years and six states, nope. Remember, too, that if they're good quality and your crank 'em down (or use a good locking banana plug), the electrical junction is gas tight and should be good for a decade without maintenance.

 

[Roland68]

Good evening Everyone. Well here goes another post am very interested in getting some clarification and maybe some new info on this topic. Here goes. So I have heard for years that gold plated brass is the better metal to use for binding post not nickel plated brass or silver plated brass. So a few years back some new types of binding post has come into the market. Some claim to have pure copper only and real gold plated or silver plated or Rohodium plated. Some claim to do the cyro freeze on binding post and sell them? I have looked into a lot of the binding post claiming they use copper and it’s Red copper. Then the magnetic issue with cheap steel binding post. Can anyone explain this or has there been a test about this subject? There are so many advertisements on this but, very little information on testing on the subject. Is it snake oil or is there some truth to it? Jeff

You can assume that almost all speaker terminals and plugs on the market are magnetic. This is especially true for products that claim to be genuinely gold-plated, silver-plated or rhodium-coated.
This is simply because a nickel layer is applied first, which is always magnetic. You can test this very easily by getting a strong neodymium pot magnet with a diameter of at least 2 cm.

My experience and knowledge on this comes from two areas. Firstly, we have 4mm plugs manufactured and coated in large quantities by two of the largest manufacturers in Europe for our high-energy products. Secondly, I once had the problem of getting plugs and terminals for an audio project that are not magnetic and therefore of course do not have a nickel layer.
I tested over 100 products, well-known manufacturers and no-name, in the price range from €1/$1 to over 100 per piece, and apart from the most expensive WBT plugs and 2 hollow bananas for soldering (1 x raw copper, 1 x silver-plated), all of them were magnetic.
Apart from the three exceptions, all of the products that were advertised with statements such as pure copper, real gold-plated, non-magnetic, real raw-plated, etc., were magnetic.
There were also products, supposedly pure copper, that were copper-plated and had a nickel layer underneath.

You can only be sure that you are getting a non-magnetic product if you test it yourself with a strong neodymium magnet. And I do this with every new delivery, from experience.

A short listening comparison on a very transparent system showed no audible difference between a cheap set of 4 connection terminals and plugs for under 30 €/$ (4 x connection terminals, 4 x plugs, crimp version, magnetic with nickel layer under the gold plating), a set made of pure copper (purity over 99.99%) and a set made of pure brass. The latter two were made as a crimp version for this purpose. The cryogenization was also indistinguishable.

Finally, something about the fairy tale of gold plating.
Gold plating of plugs and connection terminals is absolute nonsense and is purely for aesthetic purposes. Since there is always a magnetic nickel layer between the gold layer and the plug material, the additional gold plating actually increases the overall contact resistance.
The same applies to almost all silver-plated and rhodium-plated products.
One exception I know of are the WBT plugs mentioned, which have a special gold plating that does not require a nickel layer. However, this gold plating is very expensive and costs more than the plugs, even when producing large quantities.

-

 

[Jeff M.]

These are the binding post I bought 4 years back. They still look as new as the day I put them on my speakers. They are little book shelf’s with a rear ported box and a 3 inch full range Mark Audio driver. The CHN 50’s in silver. It’s my favorite 3 inch driver of all time. 2nd is the Fostex full range FF 85wk drivers.

 

[Jeff M.]

You can assume that almost all speaker terminals and plugs on the market are magnetic. This is especially true for products that claim to be genuinely gold-plated, silver-plated or rhodium-coated.
This is simply because a nickel layer is applied first, which is always magnetic. You can test this very easily by getting a strong neodymium pot magnet with a diameter of at least 2 cm.

My experience and knowledge on this comes from two areas. Firstly, we have 4mm plugs manufactured and coated in large quantities by two of the largest manufacturers in Europe for our high-energy products. Secondly, I once had the problem of getting plugs and terminals for an audio project that are not magnetic and therefore of course do not have a nickel layer.
I tested over 100 products, well-known manufacturers and no-name, in the price range from €1/$1 to over 100 per piece, and apart from the most expensive WBT plugs and 2 hollow bananas for soldering (1 x raw copper, 1 x silver-plated), all of them were magnetic.
Apart from the three exceptions, all of the products that were advertised with statements such as pure copper, real gold-plated, non-magnetic, real raw-plated, etc., were magnetic.
There were also products, supposedly pure copper, that were copper-plated and had a nickel layer underneath.

You can only be sure that you are getting a non-magnetic product if you test it yourself with a strong neodymium magnet. And I do this with every new delivery, from experience.

A short listening comparison on a very transparent system showed no audible difference between a cheap set of 4 connection terminals and plugs for under 30 €/$ (4 x connection terminals, 4 x plugs, crimp version, magnetic with nickel layer under the gold plating), a set made of pure copper (purity over 99.99%) and a set made of pure brass. The latter two were made as a crimp version for this purpose. The cryogenization was also indistinguishable.

Finally, something about the fairy tale of gold plating.
Gold plating of plugs and connection terminals is absolute nonsense and is purely for aesthetic purposes. Since there is always a magnetic nickel layer between the gold layer and the plug material, the additional gold plating actually increases the overall contact resistance.
The same applies to almost all silver-plated and rhodium-plated products.
One exception I know of are the WBT plugs mentioned, which have a special gold plating that does not require a nickel layer. However, this gold plating is very expensive and costs more than the plugs, even when producing large quantities.

-

Have you tested the Cardas Audio non- Magnetic binding post? They advertised it’s non magnetic? I wonder how much of that is true? I haven’t ordered them yet? I have read that WBT binding post have helped clean up the sound but, to what extent or degree? How much of it is true?

 

[Roland68]

Have you tested the Cardas Audio non- Magnetic binding post? They advertised it’s non magnetic? I wonder how much of that is true? I haven’t ordered them yet? I have read that WBT binding post have helped clean up the sound but, to what extent or degree? How much of it is true?

I hadn't tested Cardas. I don't have a dealer nearby who sells Cardas and it would have been too expensive for me to buy 8 of them. So I made some out of copper.
In the FAQ, Cardas is open about the subject of nickel plating and says that it doesn't use any, although a few parts, such as nuts, are gold-plated.

But as I said, we haven't been able to detect any audible effects in tests so far. You also shouldn't forget that 99.x% of speakers in all price ranges use nickel-plated connections.