Questions about different types of binding post and is it truth or snake oil?

[Bruce Morgen]

I haven't used binding posts for years. Neutrik Speakons or bust.

It's "bust" here -- none of my gear has them and I'm not about to DIY a retrofit for a dubious advantage in the context of a home audio system. Yes, they're a better solution -- but there really is no significant problem to solve, at least in my 50 years of experience as an erstwhile professional and lifelong music enthusiast during which binding posts, barrier strips, knurled brass nuts on 8-32 steel studs, and even those little spring loaded gizmos have always been more than adequate for a very undemanding job. Of course, I'm old enough to remember the Fahnestock clips used to connect power to electric train layouts, so what do I know....

 

[gfinlays]

It's "bust" here -- none of my gear has them and I'm not about to DIY a retrofit for a dubious advantage in the context of a home audio system. Yes, they're a better solution -- but there really is no significant problem to solve, at least in my 50 years of experience as an erstwhile professional and lifelong music enthusiast during which binding posts, barrier strips, knurled brass nuts on 8-32 steel studs, and even those little spring loaded gizmos have always been more than adequate for a very undemanding job. Of course, I'm old enough to remember the Fahnestock clips used to connect power to electric train layouts, so what do I know....

To be fair, binding posts have improved over the years, but I've never gotten that feeling of security from banana plugs or spade lugs that I get from a Speakon. My last amp before the AHB2s had fairly beefy binding bosts. I tried spades and never felt I got a properly secure fixing and bananas didn't grip well at all. In the end I drilled out and crimped on a set of nickel-plated ring terminals, the sort you'd crimp onto the leads of a small welder. Tightened down with pliers, they were OK.

Decent amps these days can put out voltages that can be felt and 20+ Amps of current. Why do we still rely on what is essentially a finger-tight connection?

Maybe I've spent too much time in industry. Almost every electrical connection carrying more than an instrument signals is a ring terminal tightened down with a nut and spanner.

 

[dualazmak]

Tightened down with pliers, they were OK.
....
... Almost every electrical connection carrying more than an instrument signals is a ring terminal tightened down with a nut and spanner.

I fully agree with you!

I shared my SP-cabling/wiring in my above post #36, and I too always tighten the crimping-Y-lugs (spade lugs) further by rotation-down a little bit the binding-post-screw with pliers, after enough tightening with my hand/finger.

Spoiler

 

[dualazmak]

a ring terminal tightened down with a nut and spanner.

Yes, and in our audio SP-cable binding/connection cases, it would be ideal if we could have all non-magnetizable metal set of;
(1) center bolt shaft,
(2) wire-crimped ring lug (pure-tin-electroplated pure-copper ring lug),
(3) washer & spring-washer (for anti-loosing),
(4) nut,
to be tightened-up with a spanner.
Of course, the supporting base-metal-plate needs to be also non-magnetizable.

Or, suitable (5) double-nut tightening for anti-loosening, again all non-magnetizable metal set, would be also fine.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

To be fair, binding posts have improved over the years, but I've never gotten that feeling of security from banana plugs or spade lugs that I get from a Speakon. My last amp before the AHB2s had fairly beefy binding bosts. I tried spades and never felt I got a properly secure fixing and bananas didn't grip well at all. In the end I drilled out and crimped on a set of nickel-plated ring terminals, the sort you'd crimp onto the leads of a small welder. Tightened down with pliers, they were OK.

Decent amps these days can put out voltages that can be felt and 20+ Amps of current. Why do we still rely on what is essentially a finger-tight connection?

Maybe I've spent too much time in industry. Almost every electrical connection carrying more than an instrument signals is a ring terminal tightened down with a nut and spanner.

My procedure on the speaker side is to tin the stripped wire ends with solder -- one of the few applications where the lead-free stuff makes sense, because it sets up stiffer than 60-40 -- put it through the little side hole in the binding post, and tighten the hex-shaped plastic knob with a 13mm nutdriver. I confess to using the cheapest imaginable setscrew-style banana plugs on the amp side, where the binding posts are a lot less substantial. There again, I tin the wire ends to give the setscrews something to bite into. I figure if one goes wonky I could easily deal with it in that location, but so far no issue has arisen several years down the pike. For context, the amps involved don't put out anything close to what an AHB2 can do, and my four passive speakers -- the main L+R pair, center channel speaker, and subwoofer are active -- are in the relatively undemanding ambience/surround role.

 

[Roland68]

My procedure on the speaker side is to tin the stripped wire ends with solder -- one of the few applications where the lead-free stuff makes sense, because it sets up stiffer than 60-40 -- put it through the little side hole in the binding post, and tighten the hex-shaped plastic knob with a 13mm nutdriver. I confess to using the cheapest imaginable setscrew-style banana plugs on the amp side, where the binding posts are a lot less substantial. There again, I tin the wire ends to give the setscrews something to bite into. I figure if one goes wonky I could easily deal with it in that location, but so far no issue has arisen several years down the pike. For context, the amps involved don't put out anything close to what an AHB2 can do, and my four passive speakers -- the main L+R pair, center channel speaker, and subwoofer are active -- are in the relatively undemanding ambience/surround role.

You should never squeeze or crimp tinned wires. The contact resistance is higher and increases over time as the connection loosens, no matter how tightly you tighten the screw connection.
This is also prohibited in electrical engineering for good reason.

A well-crimped wire end ferrule is always the better solution for screwing, has a significantly lower contact resistance and also protects against oxidation.

 

[GXAlan]

We have "vintage"* brass lightswitches/power points all through our house, and they can be polished, but I just don't care anymore. It's painful and exhausting as you can't machine polish those shapes easily. There's way too many of them to bother.

View attachment 405958

*made on the original equipment with the same materials but 'only' about 25 years old in this house. They are identical to the 60-70+ year old originals.

That’s really cool! You could apply something like Collinite 845 wax after you are done polishing it if it’s just the tarnish that is annoying.

“Collinite Liquid Insulator Wax was originally developed for power companies to protect against high voltage power failure, electrical fires, and explosions.”

It’s popular for automotive enthusiasts since it’s a very durable protectant even though it is not the glossiest or slickest.

 

[Bruce Morgen]

You should never squeeze or crimp tinned wires. The contact resistance is higher and increases over time as the connection loosens, no matter how tightly you tighten the screw connection.
This is also prohibited in electrical engineering for good reason.

A well-crimped wire end ferrule is always the better solution for screwing, has a significantly lower contact resistance and also protects against oxidation.

I'll be sure to let you know if this ever gets to be an actual issue in a home stereo application rather than some EE curriculum or electrician licensing exam hypothetical. What makes you think that crimping isn't just a squeezing method, or that tinning is worse than a tiny setscrew splaying out the strands inside a connector's barrel as you tighten it? For now, I'm just going to go with what literally decades of completely trouble-free experience has shown me. What you say is clearly accurate in general, and a safety concern given voltages high enough to arc and/or current high enough to heat up a high resistance connection -- but for connecting speakers to an amp? With all due respect, let's get real -- a tenth of an ohm of extra resistance due to a tinned wire end in an amp-to-speaker circuit is utterly insignificant, not to mention inaudible, if indeed that ever actually happens!

 

[EERecordist]

Good evening Everyone. Well here goes another post am very interested in getting some clarification and maybe some new info on this topic. Here goes. So I have heard for years that gold plated brass is the better metal to use for binding post not nickel plated brass or silver plated brass. So a few years back some new types of binding post has come into the market. Some claim to have pure copper only and real gold plated or silver plated or Rohodium plated. Some claim to do the cyro freeze on binding post and sell them? I have looked into a lot of the binding post claiming they use copper and it’s Red copper. Then the magnetic issue with cheap steel binding post. Can anyone explain this or has there been a test about this subject? There are so many advertisements on this but, very little information on testing on the subject. Is it snake oil or is there some truth to it? Jeff

I go with the engineering and physics approach. That is resistance, capacitance, and inductance at audio frequencies of interest.

The driving amplifier will have a low resistance, the inter chassis wiring, binding posts, and speaker wire will have low resistances, feeding into the speaker relatively low resistance. All the connections between the amplifier circuit board and the speaker will have very low capacitance and self-inductance.

I would doubt ferromagnetic material in an inch of binding post is significant in inductance. The binding posts are usually out of sight, so why spend on them for no reason? All the great classic recordings used many screw terminals in the signal chain.

 

[JiiPee]

Come on guys - You are discussing cavemen-era issues here. In modern world, the sound signal is transferred to speakers digitally via AES3 connections, or wirelessly.

 

[gfinlays]

Come on guys - You are discussing cavemen-era issues here. In modern world, the sound signal is transferred to speakers digitally via AES3 connections, or wirelessly.

Some of us use active DSP crossovers driving single power amp channels connected to individual drive units

 

[WisEd]

Good evening Everyone. Well here goes another post am very interested in getting some clarification and maybe some new info on this topic. Here goes. So I have heard for years that gold plated brass is the better metal to use for binding post not nickel plated brass or silver plated brass. So a few years back some new types of binding post has come into the market. Some claim to have pure copper only and real gold plated or silver plated or Rohodium plated. Some claim to do the cyro freeze on binding post and sell them? I have looked into a lot of the binding post claiming they use copper and it’s Red copper. Then the magnetic issue with cheap steel binding post. Can anyone explain this or has there been a test about this subject? There are so many advertisements on this but, very little information on testing on the subject. Is it snake oil or is there some truth to it? Jeff

As long as there is stable metal to metal connection the type of connector is not important. That said spades in particular tend to "autoloosen".In my expirience banana plugs tend to work best. Lock down bananas are the best, bit I have used sprind loaded ones for decades without a problem. The material of the connector is another un important minutia as fra as sound is concerned. The only difference is corrosion resistance. Gold and rhodium are superbly corrosion resistant.gold plating a connector costs pennies, with the only real difference one is silver colored, the other, of course, is yellow!
Sice plating costs pennies, you can buy a decent inexpensive, cable with gold plated terminals for a few bucks mores than a nonplated one.

 

[Chrispy]

Come on guys - You are discussing cavemen-era issues here. In modern world, the sound signal is transferred to speakers digitally via AES3 connections, or wirelessly.

Or cavemen discussing simple wiring issues? I use no AES3 or wireless connections to speakers myself....and am fairly modern in setup.

 

[RickS]

Mainly off topic posts since late 2024 and plenty of earlier threads on this topic.

See here...

Different Binding Posts - is it audible?

The influence of BP on the sound of loudspeakers has often been controversially discussed. It even goes so far that individual voices describe the influence of binding posts as immense and recommend only very high-quality BPs - That made me curious. The full mini series: Capacitor...

www.audiosciencereview.com