Ethan Winer Builds a Wire Null Tester

[cjfrbw]

I love Ethan's stuff. The ad hominem ridicule won't change anybody's opinion, but I suppose it offers short term cathartic satisfaction. However, if you get caught up in the invective, it can also cloud objectivity.

Nothing bores me more in audio than 'wire talk' about the flavors of cables. 'Can you hear it now??' 'Umm, NO!' 'You can hear it now, can't you??" 'Umm, NO!'

 

[Thomas savage]

as you get older your tolerance for un truths get very low, so I understand him pretty well, its almost impossible to sway faith based folks ideas or beliefs, and as long as they have their counterparts there they feel secure, yet will never submit to a substantial monentary bet or proper blind test. The guy who impresses me the most is Amir, the stuff he has had thrown at him and stayed calm amazes me.

I think where everyone suffers is in this medium of communication ( social media , forums etc) , I think amir has learnt lessons in this regard where others (on all sides ) have not. You can be battling about the Internet for so long that conflict defines you and it’s that that can undermine good deeds imo.

For whatever reason amir is blessed with a greater perspective in life , combined with a sense of fairness and almost dutiful kindness and resolve ( or stubbornness lol) that seems to all combine to inform his character, remarkably honest , honourable and professional . I’m pleased we have this space , friendly and fun where he can post his work , great work all without the distraction of energy draining conflicts but still remaining relevant to as wide ( and ever widening) a audience as possible . He’s definitely a rare individual, it’s a constant struggle making sure I do him justice working here.

Unfortunately he’s a MQA apologists and former Microsoft corporate scumbag so probably deserves a good kicking now and then,it’s your penance amir ... “ feel my boot” .

 

[JJB70]

I for one have never understood this obsession with wires and the ridiculous idea that spending $$$$$$'s on wire gets you better sound. Everybody knows that if you want better sound you need to spend $$$$$$$$$'s on equipment with analogue VU meters, preferably finished in champagne with wood side panels. It is a little known fact that a champagne coloured metal fascia alters the harmonics of electronic circuitry and remove a veil and that polished wooden side panel improve pace and slam.

 

[Thomas savage]

I for one have never understood this obsession with wires and the ridiculous idea that spending $$$$$$'s on wire gets you better sound. Everybody knows that if you want better sound you need to spend $$$$$$$$$'s on equipment with analogue VU meters, preferably finished in champagne with wood side panels. It is a little known fact that a champagne coloured metal fascia alters the harmonics of electronic circuitry and remove a veil and that polished wooden side panel improve pace and slam.

You can’t null test cool.

 

[PierreV]

The $22K I spent on my RCA wires are nothing compared to the amount I spent trying to get my ears fixed.

And, in terms of rants, that was a really, really mild one.

 

[Patrick1958]

We are talking about cables transmitting analogue signals here?
What about cables that transmit digital signals, like usb cables, coax/AES/EUB, I2s etc.... ?

 

[solderdude]

The 'problem' with digital cables usually is the combination of transmitter (digital), cable (analog voltage) and receiver (analog with digital decision levels)
Limits for receiver-A and receiver-B and the combination of cable-C and cable-D are all factors when nearing the cable's limits.

Comparing the input and output signal is not essential here as there will be quite measurable differences in the 'analog waveform' that represents high or low levels and/or high->low and low->high transitions for sure.
Also the cable length would need to be compensated for at high frequencies when doing 'nulling' comparisons.
That's what digital analyzers are for.

Before bit flipping occurs something is very wrong already.

 

[amirm]

We are talking about cables transmitting analogue signals here?
What about cables that transmit digital signals, like usb cables, coax/AES/EUB, I2s etc.... ?

His fixture doesn't work for that. I have done some testing of USB cables. See: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...s/do-usb-audio-cables-make-a-difference.1887/

 

[watchnerd]

Reasoning will never make a Man correct an ill Opinion, which by Reasoning he never acquired - Jonathan Swift

You guys have it all wrong.

The actual point of expensive wires isn't to actually make things sound different or better, it's to buy street cred with other audiophiles who will otherwise ridicule you for using cheap wires.

And/or to look cool because they're fat.

 

[Killingbeans]

What about cables that transmit digital signals, like usb cables, coax/AES/EUB, I2s etc.... ?

My guess would be that either bandwidth, build quality or shielding would have to be catastrophic to have any distinguable effect.

Like solderdude said; bit flipping only happens when something is horribly wrong

 

[watchnerd]

I don't think Ethan's test will do much to change any of the die-hard believer's mind. The mechanism of the test is too complicated for them to grasp what it is demonstrating.

Simply or complex, education hasn't banished belief in astrology horoscopes yet, either....

 

[RayDunzl]

It would be interesting to call the bluff of the 'micro diode' proponents and actually try to create some deliberately using grossly oxidized junctions and so on.

I had a Marantz Macro-Diode CD player, that, after a while, lost the negative swing on the output of one channel.

It was still listenable, although the sweet spot was a little off.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

BTW, I am offering some of my high-end cables (Transparent Audio) to Ethan for testing. Alas, they are old (bought them 15+ years ago). If anyone has newer ones and willing to loan them to Ethan, that would be great.

Of course there won’t be a difference, everyone knows that cables need at least 20 years to break-in.

 

[Wombat]

Of course there won’t be a difference, everyone knows that cables need at least 20 years to break-in.

Does that include breakout cables?

 

[amirm]

Of course there won’t be a difference, everyone knows that cables need at least 20 years to break-in.

Hehe. Ethan said he is done with the video so he doesn't want them anyway.

 

[mshenay]

Noice link!

I can't say I'm 100% un-biased though. I do think Headphone cables make an impact, interconnects how ever I don't feel have any real differences. I just use Blue Jean Cables/Pangea and call it a day. Nice robust build quality on both and aside from that I don't care to invest much more. I will say though as some one who reviews and does shows the following quote is 100% truth

You guys have it all wrong.

The actual point of expensive wires isn't to actually make things sound different or better, it's to buy street cred with other audiophiles who will otherwise ridicule you for using cheap wires.

And/or to look cool because they're fat.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

So... yea having nicer looking systems on a table was part of the reason I upgraded from ... Monoprice stuff? TO BJC and Pangea.

Though I did play around with a El Cheapo USB c to USB B 2.0 and one of iFi's Fancy USB Cables... the iFi Cable did sound noticeably clearer but that was liking do to a fault in the elCheapo USB cable... I've since replaced it of course much to my systems delight!That and I likely won't ever purchase one of those maddening $300 usb whatevers

What I am curious about though is that "hum" is there any concrete is measuring how much of it a cable resists? We saw how being near certain components introduced a LOT of hum and being moved away from such components removed said introduced hum. Are the cables in existence that can and do block the introduction of this hum when near said components?

 

[momo7G]

What happen if we start producing some active cables, with some kind of mild amplification into it?
Then some will claim it let them see god.
Branded as "ASR" magic cable, we will all be rich

 

[derp1n]

What happen if we start producing some active cables, with some kind of mild amplification into it?
Then some will claim it let them see god.
Branded as "ASR" magic cable, we will all be rich

Too late: https://www.bursonaudio.com/products/cable-plus-pro/

 

[March Audio]

Just watched the video. Great stuff. The believers will keep on believing though.

Just one thing I would pick up on if I am being uber pedantic, Ethan says cables can't generate noise. This is not strictly true.

If subject to vibration they can due to an effect called triboelectric noise. Basically the movement of the conductors against the insulators. A non issue in domestic audio to be honest but in certain instrumentation applications a real headache.

An example being charge output accelerometers measuring vibration on a jet engine. The cables have to be carefully routed and secured to minimise the generated noise.

 

[DonH56]

Non-superconducting cables generate noise from several sources, including thermal noise, shot noise, noise from charge hysteresis in the insulation, etc. All inaudible and barely measurable but long explained as the unmeasurable difference by marketing and audiophiles.