- Joined
- Jan 6, 2017
- Messages
- 3,920
- Likes
- 4,931
Not at all. Pandemics have been a long way apart. The time gap between them is predicted to reduce.
Actually I reckon Ray and I both missed AI. That’s possibly #1 now.
-
WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Electrostatic Headphone Amplifier Review & Comparison
- Thread starter amirm
- Start date
Actually I reckon Ray and I both missed AI. That’s possibly #1 now.
"Avoid Woo Wee tho. Good components, flawed design, atrocious customer service."
What makes you say this? I have one and it is simply awesome. Best Electrostatic performance I have ever listened to. The SRD7 Pro/mk2 is great too, but the Wee is far more efficient, thanks to those Big Transformers, no doubt...
"Decent speaker amp paired with a transformer outperforms basically all but the best energizers."
I couldn't agree more!
monophile
New Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2023
- Messages
- 1
- Likes
- 6
I got some test results of topping EHA-5 VS BHSE, those are based on AP555 and both use L7audio designed electrostatic amplifier test attenuation circuit.
In addition, they also found that BHSE has relatively serious roll-off at high frequency, the detailed tests may not be released until topping has repaired their OG stax T2 amplifier, this antique broke after several exhibitions, and more third party electrostatic amplifiers may also be added to the test in the future.
In addition, they also found that BHSE has relatively serious roll-off at high frequency, the detailed tests may not be released until topping has repaired their OG stax T2 amplifier, this antique broke after several exhibitions, and more third party electrostatic amplifiers may also be added to the test in the future.
L7’s attenuator design has several problems. For the sake of comparing amps I’ll not get into the details here. Let’s see if he’ll approve my post about that on his website.
At 100V output It looks like the transformer solution has better control on the noise floor and hum. No surprise as majority of the voltage gain comes from a passive device. The BHSE on the other hand has a slightly more pleasant harmonic composition. It’s no secret that the BHSE tops out at about 500V rms, whereas the transformer solution can go higher, as long as it doesn’t shy into protection or much worsened THD at the frequency extremes, or has a nasty resonance somewhere above 20kHz (or does it?)
The original Blue Hawaii can be tuned into zero roll off at 20kHz with -3dB well beyond 230kHz. The BHSE must have taken some trade offs between the sound, stability and what not. Have you heard complaints about lack of treble with the BHSE? You’ll see the similar high-end roll off with T2, if not more. With a perfect flat amp, the ES phones will sound different, not sure if everyone would like that sound, though.
At 100V output It looks like the transformer solution has better control on the noise floor and hum. No surprise as majority of the voltage gain comes from a passive device. The BHSE on the other hand has a slightly more pleasant harmonic composition. It’s no secret that the BHSE tops out at about 500V rms, whereas the transformer solution can go higher, as long as it doesn’t shy into protection or much worsened THD at the frequency extremes, or has a nasty resonance somewhere above 20kHz (or does it?)
The original Blue Hawaii can be tuned into zero roll off at 20kHz with -3dB well beyond 230kHz. The BHSE must have taken some trade offs between the sound, stability and what not. Have you heard complaints about lack of treble with the BHSE? You’ll see the similar high-end roll off with T2, if not more. With a perfect flat amp, the ES phones will sound different, not sure if everyone would like that sound, though.
kevin gilmore
Member
- Joined
- Feb 29, 2020
- Messages
- 54
- Likes
- 262
biggest problem with the attenuator above is that the resistance is too low and will effect the gain and frequency response of the amplifier.
the appropriate pair of high voltage 909k resistors is a far more reasonable dc load.
the lower power stax made tube amps will measure orders of magnitude greater thd. similar to the problems amir had.
the appropriate pair of high voltage 909k resistors is a far more reasonable dc load.
the lower power stax made tube amps will measure orders of magnitude greater thd. similar to the problems amir had.
It would be interesting to see the measurements of the legendary STAX T2 amplifier, once it is up and running again. I would guess that topping had it measured already, seeing that they released their own EHA5 amplifier with the probable intent of surpassing the measurements of established high-end electrostatic amplifiers.
the_brunx
Senior Member
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2020
- Messages
- 347
- Likes
- 868
Woah, Can't wait to see the full tests and all it's info.
this will be a shock to many. btw just to be 100% clear, which of the graphs is which amp/driver?
I need to know more about the conditions of the test. Amplifiers for electrostatic headphones are not designed to drive resistive loads, so the test setup would need to be designed accordingly. https://nectarsound.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Simple-Measurement-Analysis-Rev001.pdf gives measured capcitance value for several headphone models. Fixed capacitors should be used as the load- using headphones themselves will lead to some level of error as the charged diaphragms will act as condenser microphones, adding artifact into measurements.
I wouldn’t expect that. You can tell that the author registered an account just to post this one message and never bothered to come back again. Apparently the author was here to make a statement, not to engage in any meaningful conversation. It’s very much like a typical tactic often found in their domestic forums and social networks.
Mr. Haelscheir
Active Member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2023
- Messages
- 137
- Likes
- 104
I've been saving up for a TOTL electrostatic headphone system mainly to afford a legitimate audition of various summit-fi estats so as to sate my curiosity.
Preamble (why I'm interested in estats):
In "short", I've heard exquisitely sharp transients (isolated with a single-sample Dirac delta file) through the Arya Stealth at the expense of 4 kHz and top octave resonance issues (peaks move between reseatings, and sine sweep image wanders left and right through them), and through the Meze Elite Tungsten found with sine sweeps and pink noise that I could achieve a more consistently smooth target EQ with none of the aforementioned resonance issues, though both headphones exhibit what I believe to be an audible resonance spray consistent with soundstagenetwork.com's CSD measurements, and if I am objectively not hearing the duration of the decay, I am at least perceiving its compounded frequency content. Particularly when I auditioned the Meze Elite against the Focal Utopia, DCA Expanse, and shortly the Final Audio D8000 Pro and Sennheiser HD800 S, I found that the DCA Expanse and Final Audio seemed to produce the cleanest transient decays (produced through the aforementioned file), and with a salient decay frequency of a different pitch, though subjectively not as sharp as the Elite which I found to not be as sharp as the Arya perhaps due to its diaphragm not being as light, plus its measurable bass resonance; I may someday after FR matching with in-ear mics post about correlating subjective perceptions of transient sharpness and decay cleanness with measurements. (In practice, when EQed to a very similar frequency response, the differences between the Arya Stealth and Meze Elite are subtle, the Arya maybe being sharper at times, but the Elite's leather hybrid pads and lighter clamp sometimes imbuing preferable subjective qualities amid an otherwise very similar EQed tonality and presentation.) I drove these with my FiiO K9 Pro ESS which I would expect to perform a bit better than the pre-production unit L7Audio measured, whereby high gain was needed for some of the transient tests (it impressively drives the DCA Expanse quite well over balanced outputs), though I can imagine that these transients were completely unrealistic for actual music; I wish to cherish this thing for life, but alas, after five months of enjoyment, I've had to send it in for electrical repairs and can only hope it last much longer after that.
I can already hear exquisite things out of my Arya Stealth, Meze Elite, and even my Bluetooth Jabra 85h Elite when EQed by ear to my same general target, my FiiO K9 Pro ESS surely not being a bottleneck, but I still wish to hear whether it is possible to achieve exquisitely incisive transients, but with a clean decay as well as a good control of resonances allowing for clean and consistent EQ maximizing theoretical transparency into recordings.
Findings:
It seems known that discounting audibility thresholds, it seems a shame that for supposedly such low-distortion high-end electrostatic headphones (in a few months, I will report on how well they take to EQ), available amps seem to barely meet the headphones' own performance, regardless of whether that matters. So far, I was first impressed with the HeadAmp Blue Hawaii SE's published THD, though it seems like a recent concerning figure was measured, evincing that their use of tubes may rather be of the "euphonic" than "tubes are great for high-voltage" sort--the Satin Grey version would have looked beautiful with the Stax SR-X9000, though, matching my Meze Elite Tungsten. I then learned of the Linear Tube Audio Z10e and was impressed by their marketing material and that it could also drive my planar magnetics (so I could enjoy a short period of sighted A/Bing where I would most likely not hear a difference, mind have a use for the ONE Little Bear switchbox I preemptively bought), but it appears that SIY already found that their implementation is indeed a case of achieving exquisite tonal transparency while failing to control distortion. Then I was rather excited to learn of the "too good to be true" Topping EHA5 that could save me a whole lot of money (and allow me to make my auditions and purchase in September instead of December), and with which I could happily drive an Audeze CRBN, HiFiMan Shangri-La Jr., or Stax SR-X9000 (the other contender is the Warwick Acoustics Bravura system which my local shop has on an attractive sale), but the findings on the head-case thread are concerning, unless one can be assured that it is mainly practically irrelevant quibbles about square waves being fed bandwidths that you would not see out of a properly filtered DAC. bobkatz corroborated the 10 kHz square wave measurement, but I suppose regardless of that band limiting, if all the frequency components are actually as low distortion as Topping measured, then it literally doesn't matter, and per the DAC's and our own ears' band limiting should have no subjective advantage to the perception of transients.
Crux - what to send to Amir if anything at all:
Now, after a somewhat grueling search, I finally found https://www.stereophile.com/content/katzs-corner-episode-21-how-insensitive-part-3 featuring Bob Katz rather nice measurements of the Mjolnir Audio KGSSHV Carbon which finally contented me that Mjolnir Audio's implementations of Kevin Gilmore's designs are indeed trustworthy for objective performance insofar as one lacks the means to go the DIY route, or doesn't trust JR Audio (I have yet to learn who else sells implementations of KG's designs). Perhaps not as low distortion as the EHA-5, but those square waves look impressive, and perhaps the 10 kHz square wave shown suggests that amp's not being as band limited as the EHA-5 (looks like around 40 kHz instead of 20 kHz Gibbs oscillations), though as mentioned, that may not matter. Its THD+N versus frequency is also impressively flat through the entire audio band; the EHA-5 starts with higher bass distortion (supposedly due to the transformer design), but fortunately having the most distortion where as far as I know it should be the least audible, and the least distortion within the midrange, ear gain region, and treble.
Given this, I'd like your input on whether for my goals for audio transparency, it would be reasonable for me to settle with the Mjolnir Audio Carbon CC (purely for the giddy and embarrassed enjoyment of "audio jewelry") with the intent of sending it (and also the estat headphone I settled on) straight to Amir first for measurement using all the advice we have accumulated so far. Otherwise, I might just start with the EHA-5 (a small dent in my saving budget and rate for what will probably be my last high-end headphone and gear purchase for a long time; speakers come next once I finally get my own home office) and see if it contents me. I might also send the EHA-5 straight to Amir first and perhaps get folks riled up if it measurably drives the SR-X9000 or something excellently. My only concern is whether I being in Canada would have to pay customs charges twice...
Preamble (why I'm interested in estats):
In "short", I've heard exquisitely sharp transients (isolated with a single-sample Dirac delta file) through the Arya Stealth at the expense of 4 kHz and top octave resonance issues (peaks move between reseatings, and sine sweep image wanders left and right through them), and through the Meze Elite Tungsten found with sine sweeps and pink noise that I could achieve a more consistently smooth target EQ with none of the aforementioned resonance issues, though both headphones exhibit what I believe to be an audible resonance spray consistent with soundstagenetwork.com's CSD measurements, and if I am objectively not hearing the duration of the decay, I am at least perceiving its compounded frequency content. Particularly when I auditioned the Meze Elite against the Focal Utopia, DCA Expanse, and shortly the Final Audio D8000 Pro and Sennheiser HD800 S, I found that the DCA Expanse and Final Audio seemed to produce the cleanest transient decays (produced through the aforementioned file), and with a salient decay frequency of a different pitch, though subjectively not as sharp as the Elite which I found to not be as sharp as the Arya perhaps due to its diaphragm not being as light, plus its measurable bass resonance; I may someday after FR matching with in-ear mics post about correlating subjective perceptions of transient sharpness and decay cleanness with measurements. (In practice, when EQed to a very similar frequency response, the differences between the Arya Stealth and Meze Elite are subtle, the Arya maybe being sharper at times, but the Elite's leather hybrid pads and lighter clamp sometimes imbuing preferable subjective qualities amid an otherwise very similar EQed tonality and presentation.) I drove these with my FiiO K9 Pro ESS which I would expect to perform a bit better than the pre-production unit L7Audio measured, whereby high gain was needed for some of the transient tests (it impressively drives the DCA Expanse quite well over balanced outputs), though I can imagine that these transients were completely unrealistic for actual music; I wish to cherish this thing for life, but alas, after five months of enjoyment, I've had to send it in for electrical repairs and can only hope it last much longer after that.
I can already hear exquisite things out of my Arya Stealth, Meze Elite, and even my Bluetooth Jabra 85h Elite when EQed by ear to my same general target, my FiiO K9 Pro ESS surely not being a bottleneck, but I still wish to hear whether it is possible to achieve exquisitely incisive transients, but with a clean decay as well as a good control of resonances allowing for clean and consistent EQ maximizing theoretical transparency into recordings.
Findings:
It seems known that discounting audibility thresholds, it seems a shame that for supposedly such low-distortion high-end electrostatic headphones (in a few months, I will report on how well they take to EQ), available amps seem to barely meet the headphones' own performance, regardless of whether that matters. So far, I was first impressed with the HeadAmp Blue Hawaii SE's published THD, though it seems like a recent concerning figure was measured, evincing that their use of tubes may rather be of the "euphonic" than "tubes are great for high-voltage" sort--the Satin Grey version would have looked beautiful with the Stax SR-X9000, though, matching my Meze Elite Tungsten. I then learned of the Linear Tube Audio Z10e and was impressed by their marketing material and that it could also drive my planar magnetics (so I could enjoy a short period of sighted A/Bing where I would most likely not hear a difference, mind have a use for the ONE Little Bear switchbox I preemptively bought), but it appears that SIY already found that their implementation is indeed a case of achieving exquisite tonal transparency while failing to control distortion. Then I was rather excited to learn of the "too good to be true" Topping EHA5 that could save me a whole lot of money (and allow me to make my auditions and purchase in September instead of December), and with which I could happily drive an Audeze CRBN, HiFiMan Shangri-La Jr., or Stax SR-X9000 (the other contender is the Warwick Acoustics Bravura system which my local shop has on an attractive sale), but the findings on the head-case thread are concerning, unless one can be assured that it is mainly practically irrelevant quibbles about square waves being fed bandwidths that you would not see out of a properly filtered DAC. bobkatz corroborated the 10 kHz square wave measurement, but I suppose regardless of that band limiting, if all the frequency components are actually as low distortion as Topping measured, then it literally doesn't matter, and per the DAC's and our own ears' band limiting should have no subjective advantage to the perception of transients.
Crux - what to send to Amir if anything at all:
Now, after a somewhat grueling search, I finally found https://www.stereophile.com/content/katzs-corner-episode-21-how-insensitive-part-3 featuring Bob Katz rather nice measurements of the Mjolnir Audio KGSSHV Carbon which finally contented me that Mjolnir Audio's implementations of Kevin Gilmore's designs are indeed trustworthy for objective performance insofar as one lacks the means to go the DIY route, or doesn't trust JR Audio (I have yet to learn who else sells implementations of KG's designs). Perhaps not as low distortion as the EHA-5, but those square waves look impressive, and perhaps the 10 kHz square wave shown suggests that amp's not being as band limited as the EHA-5 (looks like around 40 kHz instead of 20 kHz Gibbs oscillations), though as mentioned, that may not matter. Its THD+N versus frequency is also impressively flat through the entire audio band; the EHA-5 starts with higher bass distortion (supposedly due to the transformer design), but fortunately having the most distortion where as far as I know it should be the least audible, and the least distortion within the midrange, ear gain region, and treble.
Given this, I'd like your input on whether for my goals for audio transparency, it would be reasonable for me to settle with the Mjolnir Audio Carbon CC (purely for the giddy and embarrassed enjoyment of "audio jewelry") with the intent of sending it (and also the estat headphone I settled on) straight to Amir first for measurement using all the advice we have accumulated so far. Otherwise, I might just start with the EHA-5 (a small dent in my saving budget and rate for what will probably be my last high-end headphone and gear purchase for a long time; speakers come next once I finally get my own home office) and see if it contents me. I might also send the EHA-5 straight to Amir first and perhaps get folks riled up if it measurably drives the SR-X9000 or something excellently. My only concern is whether I being in Canada would have to pay customs charges twice...
Last edited:
I skimmed and scanned your comment and saw this. I telephoned the Canada Border Services Agency and I was advised that the paperwork can be designated as for test only but on the return leg a duty may still be applied. If it is there is a filing process for getting that money back. You will need to document the process of shipping anything stateside and take pictures in the event that you need this stuff for later. I sent stuff/gifted to @amirm and there was no duty or fees applied on his end as far as I know.
Mr. Haelscheir
Active Member
- Joined
- Mar 16, 2023
- Messages
- 137
- Likes
- 104
I was thinking of having the seller send it directly to Amir to reduce the number of shipping trips, the billing address still being in Canada, whether or not I could make special shipping paperwork requests. As for whether spritzer would ever directly ship a unit to Amir's address, I don't know... I would personally request that we make our best effort in giving a fair measurement.
Svperstar
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2018
- Messages
- 377
- Likes
- 234
I'm just now getting into the world of Stax. I've been on the fence for 20 years. I already have the Koss 95x, I am in the process of ordering a Stax SRM-T1S and going from there, curious how the Koss will sound out of it, I know the Koss energizer filters <200hz and the Stax don't
I was very close to ordering s $2,300 customized Stax amp but figured I should start cheap and only if I can't hear a difference upgrade.
I was very close to ordering s $2,300 customized Stax amp but figured I should start cheap and only if I can't hear a difference upgrade.
solderdude
Grand Contributor
The chance of hearing audible differences between energizers is much bigger than between headphone amps.
Making a good energizer is much more difficult (challenging) than a regular headphone amp.
Making a good energizer is much more difficult (challenging) than a regular headphone amp.
Svperstar
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2018
- Messages
- 377
- Likes
- 234
I'm not really comfortable dropping $7,000 on like a Blue Hawaii or something. I heard the X9000 out of a Blue Hawaii at a meetup and it sounded good but I didn't hear anything worth that much money coming out of them. I got a good starter estat amp coming in the mail so I have something to compare and contrast if/when I do get something more expensive.
The T1S is probably not a bad choice, assuming you're not getting one of the hard to drive headphones. If it's not good enough, a CCS mod might improve things, and you can switch to different tube types using adapters. See e.g. here for some options for tuning tube based Stax amplifiers.
Svperstar
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2018
- Messages
- 377
- Likes
- 234
If its too quiet I can max out the output on the RME ADI-2, the gain goes pretty high.
The gain doesn't help if the amp starts to distort or completely runs out of current.
Similar threads
