DonR
Major Contributor
My son designs battery management hardware in the marine industry. They can't find enough EEs. Maybe the pendulum is swinging in the other direction.
I think this is super-important and I wish it would happen. A new kind of 21st century apprenticeships, dressed up so they are sought after and competed for. Plus smart companies could really deep-dive into how these kids thought, how they did things, so they could get a glimpse into what is needed next.You would learn far more from working in a design group/under a senior design engineer than any schooling ... I think the industry needs to go to high-school and directly recruit smart and interested kids and teach them what they need in the company.
Has more to do with what you’ll read in Sir John Glubb’s Fate of Empires than with Technology per se.Technology gets more and more distant from being controlled …
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Flight delays in U.S. after FAA computer outage
Just before 7 a.m. Eastern, there were nearly 1,200 delayed flights within, into or out of the United States, according to the flight tracking website FlightAware.www.politico.com
The problem is college/University system. So hard to get into the degree program. And then get hit with a ton of theory/math. Interest and knowledge of electronics gets you very little in acquiring a degree. As the article notes, broad set of topics are covered no matter what the job market/interest of the applicant. Very little of that theory is needed in today's design work. You would learn far more from working in a design group/under a senior design engineer than any schooling.
Related is what I was told years ago. That the engineering school in many universities is under or married to the Math department. As such, a ton of advance math is required even though little of it is really needed. And much of it forgotten after school. The whole system is designed to keep universities in business than serving what is needed.
I would say only 10% of what I learned in University was useful to me. The other 90% came from learning myself from my brother who taught me electronics.
The hobby side is also hit hard as someone mentioned with advent of surface mount technology. It is just hard to dig into such designs, repair, mod, etc.
FYI there has been incredible surge of interest in engineering due to youtube and marker movement as noted in the article. I suspect however many smart kids can't get into the front door of any engineering company because they lack the above degree, and existing work history.
I think the industry needs to go to high-school and directly recruit smart and interested kids and teach them what they need in the company. Waiting for colleges to spit them out is a big mistake. Ditto for computer science.
It’s the way education has gone, lowering of standards so more students look like they are achieving. Course work is a bad joke with educators under pressure to show achievement. Assessing course work takes time and in many cases has become a tick box exercise. Used to take me a day and a half to assess a student’s end of course portfolio, had a colleague who could do it in just over an hour. When he left and I took over his students none of the students’ portfolios met the minimum criteria so they went back and had to be done again.Was talking to an acquaintance who teaches EE at a major state university. He's young (PhD from a world famous New England tech-oriented university), in his third year of teaching. Came to the game enthused. But is already frustrated, and thinking of getting another gig. Why? For him it's the university's 'extra-curricular' program that impinges upon his teaching ability. He thinks it's setting both him and his department up for, if not failure, at least not excellence.
He told me that before each new year, the department meets with a 'diversity' counselor. A woman with a 'degree' in something he's never heard of asks him why his department doesn't have the expected student make-up, which means women, and certain minorities. He tells me that half his students could be considered 'minority', but that those students are not the ones she is talking about. He tells her that he'd love to have a classroom with more women and other 'non-represented' groups, but what is he supposed to do? He says the woman's attitude is as if the class makeup is his fault. That he (meaning the department) should be doing 'more' to fix a problem he didn't even know was a problem.
Then, faculty is asked about the department's plan to structure course material to include current social topics--topics that will foster 'inclusion' and be relevant to disadvantaged students? He tells her that he teaches a lot of math. He asks her how he is supposed to merge social problems with circuit design theory?
He tells her that he treats all his students equally, with respect and understanding. He never yells or talks down to them. He doesn't make jokes as he is afraid of unintentionally 'offending' someone. An hour later he comes away from the meeting thinking that in diversity counselor's eyes, he's some kind of trouble maker. Next year he promises to keep his mouth shut during meetings.
However, he's worried that the push for 'inclusiveness' will lead to the department accepting students who are unable to master the coursework, and that he will be held personally responsible for giving a failing grade if they botch the test. I tell him that's just the way it is, and it's the same everywhere, anymore. Besides, I say it's not like he's going to get a job at Bell Labs, where everyone wears white Oxford button down shirts with a pocket protector, and matching skinny black tie, like in the '50s. What can I say? What can anyone say? I'm happy to be retired and happy to be out of it. I want to offer him a drink, but he t-totals. That will probably change after a few more years in the work force.
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Engineering technology for social justice
ece.osu.edu
When I started working in the early 1970s, large companies like Marconi and Pye had their own training colleges, as did the BBC and The Post Office (British Telecom). These colleges took in school-leavers that for whatever reason didn't want to / couldn't go to University and provided practical engineering training without the heavy academic theory which Universities taught.I think this is super-important and I wish it would happen. A new kind of 21st century apprenticeships, dressed up so they are sought after and competed for. Plus smart companies could really deep-dive into how these kids thought, how they did things, so they could get a glimpse into what is needed next.
My first job on leaving school meant I was 1 of 120 apprentices attending a training centre for the first 9 months. We made a complete set of tools, nothing bought in. We had to use a range of machine tools be able to weld and forge. Like the places you mention long since gone. With regards to restarting engineering courses, there aren’t enough qualified and experienced people to pass on the knowledge. A college not too far from you stripped out all the equipment needed to teach engineering practical skills, saw machine tools, electronic control equipment thrown into skips. What do you expect when the Head of FE was appointed for reasons of inclusion, her work experience had been as a Pub Cook.When I started working in the early 1970s, large companies like Marconi and Pye had their own training colleges, as did the BBC and The Post Office (British Telecom). These colleges took in school-leavers that for whatever reason didn't want to / couldn't go to University and provided practical engineering training without the heavy academic theory which Universities taught.
Sadly, by the end of the century, these colleges had either closed, or been sold off as uneconomic, not helped by the fact that engineers expensively trained by the BBC or Pye, got better paying jobs with their competitors a year or two after qualifying.
There are now attempts to increase the number of practical Engineering courses, but there's still a stigma against Engineers that don't actually have the magic bit of paper with a University degree. And of course, as we've been discussing, hardware engineering is nothing like as popular as software engineering, which can be done from anywhere in the World with an Internet connection.
S.
Actually...yeah. Let's see. Do I fix toasters? Or TVs? And then there's the quintessential convesation:You were only asked that once!?
Very true but also a modern device is so much IT in it and so much integrated & miniaturised that the standard EE knowledge is no longer valuable in the design.I think that is part of it. Among EE's I know, they keep getting shoved into management positions. Engineers would rather engineer than be a manager. I think it is a leverage effect. Electronics can be produced in great numbers so one engineer can be valuable for so many products sold it sort of doesn't take as many as it once did.
But isn't that how it is supposed to be? University is not meant to teach you a job (with the only two exceptions of law & medicine). As the name means it is to teach you a 'universum' of knowledge (latin: all in one, relating to all, all things). Once you have such breath of knowledge, you can teach yourself further.I would say only 10% of what I learned in University was useful to me. The other 90% came from learning myself from my brother who taught me electronics.
I'm confused. Why would you disagree with the top part of my post while the bottom part (below) says exactly what you say.I would suggest with traditional power generation being at the forefront of global warming issues, electrical engineers are now needed in larger numbers to develop renewable energy systems and more efficient electrical devices that reduce energy usage.
JSmith
Electrical Engineers are still widely employed as not much has changed in power generation, transmission and to a certain level motors.
But isn't that how it is supposed to be? University is not meant to teach you a job (with the only two exceptions of law & medicine). As the name means it is to teach you a 'universum' of knowledge (latin: all in one, relating to all, all things). Once you have such breath of knowledge, you can teach yourself further.
If you want to learn a job, one must go to a tech college. However, you will not be able to re-teach yourself through another subject life. You need to go to another college or take another course for that new job.
On his last class our professor at Imperial College, London told us: "I have bad new and good news. The courses on programming using punch-cards will be useless in a few years as computers with keyboards are around the corner. The slide-ruler that we often barred in exams will be replaced with calculators that you will enter the formula in directly and will be so small that you will sneak them into the class unseen. Almost every practical knowledge you now have will be useless in a decade. However, the most important thing we taught you is how to learn. The basics we impregnated you with should be sufficient to allow you re-learn throughout your professional life." How true was that.
That was in 1973. Less than ten years later IBM PC arrived and computing changed for ever. And my professor was right again; within ten years there was indeed watch calculators on the market that can solve scientific formulae.
I was able to re-teach myself ever, and ever. The basics that I learned at university allowed me to become a speaker designer because I could read Richard Small's PH.D. thesis, design a complex passive-crossover (LR4) and program a computer to optimise the component values. (Dr. Small wrote his thesis only a year before I was graduated.)
Worked on generation, transmission and distributor systems in the Oil Industry for 9 years up to 2001, so if things have changed please don’t take it personally. Most of the equipment used in these areas were supplied by GE from the US and was so out of date it was unreal. Seemingly it hadn’t been developed since the 1930s, we tried to integrate some modern Siemens protection equipment into the transmission network virtually impossible. The technology was so far advanced compared to the GE equipment it was embarrassing and those horrible air blast circuit breakers unbelievable! The product of a trade protection system that meant there was no need to develop and manufacture new technologies.The thing is what would an EE (Electronics Engineer) work on, today? Is there any device category left that employs EEs in vast numbers who work on design, develop or repair?
Electrical Engineers are still widely employed as not much has changed in power generation, transmission and to a certain level motors.