[Electrical] Engineers on the brink of extinction threaten entire tech ecosystems

[DonH56]

@Amir "You would learn far more from working in a design group/under a senior design engineer"
After 4 successful years at school, in France, it is mandatory to finish the 5th year of the curses working in a company under the tutoring of a senior EE.

Hmmm... True for far too many, and doesn't stop then.

 

[fpitas]

It is tough to find young RF engineers these days. Most schools don't have courses; and frankly I think it has the "black magic" reputation going against it.

 

[DonH56]

It is tough to find young RF engineers these days. Most schools don't have courses; and frankly I think it has the "black magic" reputation going against it.

It's getting harder to find old ones, too...

 

[fpitas]

It's getting harder to find old ones, too...

Lol yes. True enough. Although my area around DC has a lot of RF based companies.

 

[boXem]

Bah, at some point engineers will be replaced by IAI, like factory workers have been replaced by machines in the past. Same thing for lawyers, and other "intellectual" professions. There is already a lot of cheating in universities with students using AI to do their work.
Sometimes my pessimistic part is wondering if it wouldn't be better to teach our kids how to grow chickens and vegetables to feed themselves instead of law, art or science...

 

[fpitas]

Bah, at some point engineers will be replaced by IAI, like factory workers have been replaced by machines in the past. Same thing for lawyers, and other "intellectual" professions. There is already a lot of cheating in universities with students using AI to do their work.
Sometimes my pessimistic part is wondering if it wouldn't be better to teach our kids how to grow chickens and vegetables to feed themselves instead of law, art or science...

Sometimes I suspect I am an AI.

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

It is tough to find young RF engineers these days. Most schools don't have courses; and frankly I think it has the "black magic" reputation going against it.

It goes a bit deeper if you look at the curriculum over here and it’s centred towards the humanities. Anything that has a defined output isn’t wanted. Engineering and construction are traditional male employment routes seen as sexist and not inclusive enough.

 

[hex168]

It is tough to find young RF engineers these days. Most schools don't have courses; and frankly I think it has the "black magic" reputation going against it.

RF is black magic. I was an EE, though not specializing in RF. Once you get into the hundreds of MHz, wiring does strange things. I have no idea how people manage to design high-frequency circuit boards; kudos to them.

 

[fpitas]

RF is black magic. I was an EE, though not specializing in RF. Once you get into the hundreds of MHz, wiring does strange things. I have no idea how people manage to design high-frequency circuit boards; kudos to them.

We're all warlocks. It's the dirty little secret of RF

 

[fpitas]

It goes a bit deeper if you look at the curriculum over here and it’s centred towards the humanities. Anything that has a defined output isn’t wanted. Engineering and construction are traditional male employment routes seen as sexist and not inclusive enough.

That happens too. But even if they go into EE of some sort they're pointed towards FPGAs etc. as a more mainstream thing,.

 

[MCH]

Sometimes my pessimistic part is wondering if it wouldn't be better to teach our kids how to grow chickens and vegetables to feed themselves instead of law, art or science...

Fred, leave the chicken to the farmers and go back to your integrated, with proper bass management!! si'l vous plait

 

[Multicore]

The problem is college/University system. So hard to get into the degree program. And then get hit with a ton of theory/math. Interest and knowledge of electronics gets you very little in acquiring a degree. As the article notes, broad set of topics are covered no matter what the job market/interest of the applicant. Very little of that theory is needed in today's design work. You would learn far more from working in a design group/under a senior design engineer than any schooling.

Related is what I was told years ago. That the engineering school in many universities is under or married to the Math department. As such, a ton of advance math is required even though little of it is really needed. And much of it forgotten after school. The whole system is designed to keep universities in business than serving what is needed.

I would say only 10% of what I learned in University was useful to me. The other 90% came from learning myself from my brother who taught me electronics.

The hobby side is also hit hard as someone mentioned with advent of surface mount technology. It is just hard to dig into such designs, repair, mod, etc.

FYI there has been incredible surge of interest in engineering due to youtube and marker movement as noted in the article. I suspect however many smart kids can't get into the front door of any engineering company because they lack the above degree, and existing work history.

I think the industry needs to go to high-school and directly recruit smart and interested kids and teach them what they need in the company. Waiting for colleges to spit them out is a big mistake. Ditto for computer science.

Abolish the universities. They evolved into a crummy way of producing the specialists we need and we'd be better of going back to guilds.

 

[fpitas]

Abolish the universities. They evolved into a crummy way of producing the specialists we need and we'd be better of going back to guilds.

That is about the situation, frankly. You can't really teach design.

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

The problem is college/University system. So hard to get into the degree program. And then get hit with a ton of theory/math. Interest and knowledge of electronics gets you very little in acquiring a degree. As the article notes, broad set of topics are covered no matter what the job market/interest of the applicant. Very little of that theory is needed in today's design work. You would learn far more from working in a design group/under a senior design engineer than any schooling.

Related is what I was told years ago. That the engineering school in many universities is under or married to the Math department. As such, a ton of advance math is required even though little of it is really needed. And much of it forgotten after school. The whole system is designed to keep universities in business than serving what is needed.

I would say only 10% of what I learned in University was useful to me. The other 90% came from learning myself from my brother who taught me electronics.

The hobby side is also hit hard as someone mentioned with advent of surface mount technology. It is just hard to dig into such designs, repair, mod, etc.

FYI there has been incredible surge of interest in engineering due to youtube and marker movement as noted in the article. I suspect however many smart kids can't get into the front door of any engineering company because they lack the above degree, and existing work history.

I think the industry needs to go to high-school and directly recruit smart and interested kids and teach them what they need in the company. Waiting for colleges to spit them out is a big mistake. Ditto for computer science.

Liverpool up to the UKs adoption of comprehensive education had a focused selective education system. At the age of 11, 13 or 15 you could take an examination for entrance to a Grammar, Technical, Commercial or Catering school. The core subjects were the same. In the technical school I attended we studied practically and theoretically metalwork and woodwork. All swept away in the move to inclusivity, so much for progress.

 

[boXem]

Fred, leave the chicken to the farmers and go back to your integrated, with proper bass management!! si'l vous plait

I spent the entire day making amplifier harnesses. Kind of day when the arrival of the UPS and DHL drivers was the best moment Wondering if watching chickens lay eggs would not have been more interesting...

 

[DonH56]

I spent the entire day making amplifier harnesses. Kind of day when the arrival of the UPS and DHL drivers was the best moment Wondering if watching chickens lay eggs would not have been more interesting...

Maybe, but less productive... And the cartoons showing roosters crowing at dawn are by folk who've never lived on a farm; they crow 24/7 at every little thing. And they stink.

 

[fpitas]

Maybe, but less productive... And the cartoons showing roosters crowing at dawn are by folk who've never lived on a farm; they crow 24/7 at every little thing. And they stink.

I "inherited" a rooster when I bought my house. For months he crowed under my bedroom window at 4:30AM. Until the fox got him.

But yes, I hear the various neighborhood roosters all day and night.

 

[mhardy6647]

Actually...yeah. Let's see. Do I fix toasters? Or TVs? And then there's the quintessential convesation:

"So...what do you do again?" "I design RF stuff" "R...F...what's that" You know, amplifiers, mixers..." Where do you work? I mean, what do they do there?" "We make software defined radios, mostly" "Radios? Really? They still make those?'

This is why we can't have nice things

See? That's what was nice about my line of work.
Folks ask me those questions and, when I'm not in a mood to expound at length*, I'll just say, "I make drugs."

______________
* Yes, a rare event, but it has happened now and again.

 

[RickS]

The problem is college/University system. So hard to get into the degree program. And then get hit with a ton of theory/math. Interest and knowledge of electronics gets you very little in acquiring a degree. As the article notes, broad set of topics are covered no matter what the job market/interest of the applicant. Very little of that theory is needed in today's design work. You would learn far more from working in a design group/under a senior design engineer than any schooling.

Related is what I was told years ago. That the engineering school in many universities is under or married to the Math department. As such, a ton of advance math is required even though little of it is really needed. And much of it forgotten after school. The whole system is designed to keep universities in business than serving what is needed.

I would say only 10% of what I learned in University was useful to me. The other 90% came from learning myself from my brother who taught me electronics.

The hobby side is also hit hard as someone mentioned with advent of surface mount technology. It is just hard to dig into such designs, repair, mod, etc.

FYI there has been incredible surge of interest in engineering due to youtube and marker movement as noted in the article. I suspect however many smart kids can't get into the front door of any engineering company because they lack the above degree, and existing work history.

I think the industry needs to go to high-school and directly recruit smart and interested kids and teach them what they need in the company. Waiting for colleges to spit them out is a big mistake. Ditto for computer science.

While 40 years ago now, this was almost my exact experience. Started at a university in engineering physics (under math department). The math classes were all theory and no application and so decided to get into computer science (also in math department). In sophomore year, I transferred out of that school and found a more established program. Ended up working for the department lab mainly as a sys admin. Was the smartest thing I did educationally. I was a B student but with that experience, I barely had to interview and was hired right out of school.

As a side note, I did about 2 years of embedded systems development work and then moved into applications engineering. Was another smart move as it gave me more insight into what customers did with our products. It was an experience that I think every engineer should have. I did not stay in engineering, but know if I had, I would have been a better one after working with our customers.

 

[sergeauckland]

Sounds great. I want to see photos.

Here's a pic of my desktop system with the newly built 912+ and repaired QuadII amps. 'speakers are JR149s on another wall.