Elac Uni-Fi 2.0 Review (bookshelf speaker)

[BN1]

@MrPeabody, I have the speakers. I've made a very strong effort to recreate the sound any way I can. I know at least one other person in this thread has as well, because I responded to them, but I believe there were others. So I'm not talking out my ass. I believe Amir heard what he heard, but its not worth turning your back on the speakers because one guy got an anomaly. I am, however, in that camp of thought that Amir acted very unprofessionally in the way he reviewed these speakers.

For the record, in case it can be argued that I'm biased in some way because I own the speakers, I'll share that I'm likely going to return them, but not because of any weird peaks or anything; I'm testing them side by with some KEFs, so I can very clearly hear the different between good separation(ELAC) and good clarity (KEF) and I've decided I likely want to invest a little more money into something that balances those really well.

I'd be interested in more comments about the Elac's and KEF's and how they compare/contrast. The Uni-Fi is a relatively inexpensive concentric speaker compared to a similar design KEF. What does the additional $$ buy for the consumer ?

 

[NumberOfTheBeats]

I'd be interested in more comments about the Elac's and KEF's and how they compare/contrast. The Uni-Fi is a relatively inexpensive concentric speaker compared to a similar design KEF. What does the additional $$ buy for the consumer ?

You can get the "concentric" part out of a KEF Q150, which often goes for $300, new. If I had more space to keep multiple speakers around, I'd definitely just keep those and call them my clarity speakers, and switch back and forth on speakers based on my mood. They're very good. The lack of separation of sounds in the upper-middle frequencies just became too apparent when A/B'ing them with the UB52. So I switched those for LS50 Metas, which are definitely a bit better, but still aren't separating the sounds as much as I'd like.

One cool thing that the KEFs have demonstrated to me with their clarity, is you can crank the sound in one room, and it can still sound surprisingly good and clear down the hall/in another room. You won't quite get that to the same extent out of the UB52, but you probably shouldn't base speaker buying decisions off how they sound down the hall, so that doesnt really matter.

However, I assume you're probably more interested in a comparable 3-way design that also has concentric drivers, like the KEF R3. Unfortunately I haven't tried those out yet, so I don't think I can really answer your question. I hope to try it out really soon though.

 

[Thomas savage]

@MrPeabody, I appreciate anyone who is so passionate about the scientific method, so thank you for your responses. I appologize that I don't have time to address every point you bring up; I will likely rethink jumping into a discussion again until I'm willing to start writing essays on the subject. But I do have a clarifying questions for you, if you don't mind.

I do understand that reversing the polarity and testing the speakers are a good way to isolate certain variables, but are you implying the Amir may have reversed the polarity, accidentally or otherwise, and not noted it in his review before prematurely ending it and panning the speakers?

Also, my relationship with @Thomas savage, or his relationship with Amir is immaterial in my feelings that he made a good point that I agree with. I'm not sure what point you were trying to make about that, but I assure you it was the height of irrelevance.

Well we are all here to talk about it , moan like I did or take the information apart in as reasonable and thorough way as possible.

Big picture is theres the power to investigate and now the platform to hold manufacturers to account. Thats a huge force for the good of all audio consumers even those that might dislike ASR or never even heard of the place .

I for one am looking forward to the results of Andrew Jones own investigation, I just wish he'd been bought into the discussion by a means that might of encouraged future participation and shown us in a better light. Own goal lol

If there was a mechanical issue relating to this resonance it would be encouraging to see it rectified ( assuming its a shipping issue rather than bad design or build ) and this speaker sent back to amirm for another run . I think Elac and Mr Jones deserve that courtesy given their record of good work with their speakers ( already shown by ASR) and professionalism in this very thread .

 

[BN1]

You're correct, I was mostly thinking about the R3 when I responded to your comment. I'm mostly interested in center channel performance for dialog improvement and due to space limitations it is difficult to find a 3-way that fits my need (<8"). Surprisingly, KEF centers are not 3-way until you get to the R3 (actually the R2c) which is something like 3x the price of a Elac Uni-Fi 2.0 and I am curious about what benefits in sound quality that I would receive for the extra $ (admittedly the KEF has an aesthetic advantage).

 

[981CS]

In order for your take on the matter to be reasonable, you would need to have very good reason to be confident that your setup recreates all the conditions that are necessary in order for the anomaly that Amir experienced to occur. You could not possibly be certain of this. You most likely do not even know whether you wired the speaker using the same polarity that Amir used. This is inarguably part of the necessary conditions, given that Amir reported that the anomalous behavior occurred in conjunction with the woofer's coil+diaphragm assembly having been driven far to the rear and held there. I discussed this, but you ignored it and responded by effectively asserting that if it were possible under any circumstances for what Amir experienced to occur similarly with your speaker, it would have happened and you would have heard it. This is what you are asserting, in essence, and you have no justification for this. There is no possible way that you could be certain that you have duplicated all the circumstances that are required for the anomalous behavior to occur. As such, there is no possible way for you to know whether your speaker would behave the same as the one Amir measured, if he were to measure your speaker the same as he did the other one. This is simply the truth, and all you are doing is ignoring the truth, the reasons for which are of little relevance.

What Amir experienced he reported it and gave a "review" with a broken panther. No one else has been able to duplicate that to any degree whatsoever and no further testing was done (by Amir) to see if the problem was indeed with the speaker itself or if all of them are like this. Again, not very scientific when no control is being used or even an attempt to duplicate results on an identical speaker. Although this seems to be status quo for one reason or another on most tests.

As well, this is like an argument with someone who "saw" a bigfoot. They swear they saw it, but somehow no one else in the area did and no one can find any evidence that it even existed. Was it real, was it a bear, was it a tree? Right now, no one knows. But what we do know is that, at present, only one person has "seen" one and they are the ones who wrote the review...

I did not suggest that anyone should turn their back on the speakers. In fact, my sense is presently that it is likely a very good speaker so long as it isn't expected to play very loudly.

What's "very loudly"? Please define. They aren't PA speakers. And my loud could be completely different from your loud.

The plausible explanation that I discussed is sufficiently plausible such that no one should dismiss it out of hand, without having a very good reason to do so. Your having not heard what Amir heard is NOT a good reason to dismiss that plausible explanation out of hand. You would need at least to offer evidence that you and the few others had all made certain to wire your speakers with the same polarity that Amir had used. And even if you did that, this would not be a good enough reason to dismiss that plausible explanation out of hand.

aka "Prove that I didn't see a Bigfoot".

 

[amirm]

What Amir experienced he reported it and gave a "review" with a broken panther. No one else has been able to duplicate that to any degree whatsoever and no further testing was done (by Amir) to see if the problem was indeed with the speaker itself or if all of them are like this.

I offered to do more tests with other samples. No one would offer one including the people who owned the speaker. I offered to test the other sample the owner had and then return it for him but he had bought it in person and that would not work.

I am not here to put infinite resources on troubleshooting a speaker. If it is that important for you that this happens, then you should have bought a sample and sent it to me for testing. Or one of you who owns it should have sent one to me. It is still not too late if you want to send me a speaker to test. What is not helpful or useful is continued complaining.

Again, not very scientific when no control is being used or even an attempt to duplicate results on an identical speaker. Although this seems to be status quo for one reason or another on most tests.

Please.... This is no scientific experiment. As I keep saying, I am just testing products. No tester goes home everyday saying they are making science. I test products on behalf of owners and tell them if they perform well, or something is wrong with them. The latter was the case here. It is up to you all to gather other data points if you want. It is not like I have a million dollar research grant to go and test 100 speakers for you.

As well, this is like an argument with someone who "saw" a bigfoot. They swear they saw it, but somehow no one else in the area did and no one can find any evidence that it even existed. Was it real, was it a bear, was it a tree? Right now, no one knows. But what we do know is that, at present, only one person has "seen" one and they are the ones who wrote the review...

What do you mean nobody knows? I know. I tested the product in my hand and clearly heard the issue. I even made a recording of it and others heard it as well. It is you all who want to rely on negative logic of "well, no one else has heard it so problem must not be there."

 

[More Dynamics Please]

The review clearly did not state a final conclusion but offered two different possibilities -- a design issue or an individual unit issue. The disagreement is whether or not the choice of wording overemphasized the possibility of a design issue to the effect of minimizing the possibility of an individual unit issue.

 

[MrPeabody]

I do understand that reversing the polarity and testing the speakers are a good way to isolate certain variables, but are you implying the Amir may have reversed the polarity, accidentally or otherwise, and not noted it in his review before prematurely ending it and panning the speakers?

You did a very good job there of making it plainly apparent that your intentions here are, shall we say, compromised.

I made two points about the speaker polarity, neither of which insinuated anything remotely similar to your phony, patently dishonest question. The points I made were:

1. Since the anomalous behavior evidently occurred in association with the coil/diaphragm assembly being driven far in one direction and held there by a strong DC component, it would have been useful, for the purpose of gaining more information, for Amir to have reversed the polarity, to see whether and how this affected the anomalous behavior.

2. The fact that you had not so much as reversed the polarity on your speakers reveals plainly and indisputably that you made no good effort to determine whether your speakers might be like the one he examined, and this alone is sufficient reason to dismiss your ridiculous assertion that the anomalous behavior that Amir discovered is unique to the one unit he examined. You have no understanding of what would be required in order for that assertion of yours to not be ridiculous. How could you possibly think that you have anything remotely similar to proof that other units of the same model wouldn't exhibit the same anomalous behavior under the identical circumstances? The assertion is every bit as ridiculous as the opposite assertion would be, had anyone asserted that all units of that model exhibit that same anomalous behavior. Either assertion is patently ridiculous, not the least bit deserving of being taken seriously.

Also, my relationship with @Thomas savage, or his relationship with Amir is immaterial in my feelings that he made a good point that I agree with. I'm not sure what point you were trying to make about that, but I assure you it was the height of irrelevance.

The height of irrelevance? It is not my place to convey to Thomas Savage that he should have conveyed those sentiments to Amir privately, and it most certainly is not your place to sign up as a participant to this forum and waste no time seizing the first opportunity to say, "Me too," which is not substantively different from your having written that commentary yourself. You don't need to respond by saying anything more to reveal that you have no understanding of matters of decorum.

 

[Spocko]

He was. I put Andrew in touch with him and he says he has already shipped the speakers to him.

Clearly this issue will resolve itself once Andrew returns with his findings.

 

[dmilller]

I'd be interested in more comments about the Elac's and KEF's and how they compare/contrast. The Uni-Fi is a relatively inexpensive concentric speaker compared to a similar design KEF. What does the additional $$ buy for the consumer ?

KEF LS50 would be comparable to higher end ELAC, like Carina and Vela. The higher end ELAC have a downward pointing port, which I like. These speakers also have matching center channel, which the LS50 does not.

 

[MrPeabody]

... No one else has been able to duplicate that to any degree whatsoever and no further testing was done (by Amir) to see if the problem was indeed with the speaker itself or if all of them are like this. Again, not very scientific when no control is being used or even an attempt to duplicate results on an identical speaker. Although this seems to be status quo for one reason or another on most tests.

As well, this is like an argument with someone who "saw" a bigfoot. They swear they saw it, but somehow no one else in the area did and no one can find any evidence that it even existed. Was it real, was it a bear, was it a tree? Right now, no one knows. But what we do know is that, at present, only one person has "seen" one and they are the ones who wrote the review...

aka "Prove that I didn't see a Bigfoot".

Amir already wrote a good reply to this, but I just wanted to say, in addition, that the Sasquatch analogy is, well, it's silly. Amir has a very solid background in doing this kind of work, and has invested something in the neighborhood of a hundred grand in order to be able to do this stuff. But you're going to compare him to someone who makes up a story about having seen a Sasquatch?

The question of whether Amir should passively insinuate that his findings apply to other units of the same model is a fundamentally difficult question. I would not want to begin discussing that unless I were prepared to write a couple of pages, which of course no one would read. But you have reduced something that is not simple to a comical status, by comparing Amir to someone who falsely reports having seen Sasquatch.

If I make an effort to extract something meaningful from what you wrote, it would be that you're saying that nothing that Amir discovers is of any value unless he confirms that the discoveries, whatever they are, are evident in at least two different units of the same model. This would apply to the more ordinary measurements just as it does to the discovery of some unusual anomaly. Whether this is or is not reasonable depends on a lot of things. I will point out that what Amir does isn't different in this respect from what everyone else who examines audio equipment does, including Stereophile, just to give one example. There have been times in the past when Stereophile discovered something very unexpected and very concerning when examining some piece of equipment. When so, they have not made any apology, to the best of my knowledge, for not having confirmed that the anomaly they discovered was present in at least two units of that model. So, are you wanting to hold Amir to a higher standard, or do you mean to be making a critical comment about everyone who does the kind of thing that Amir does?

What's "very loudly"? Please define. They aren't PA speakers. And my loud could be completely different from your loud.

I was actually confused by this and unsure what you're getting at. I suppose you're objecting to my implying that you can't play this speaker as loud as you would most other speakers, without suffering audible distortion. As I think about it, I shouldn't have done that, because I don't know with any certainty that the high distortion that Amir discovered would be present in other units of the same model. At the time I wrote that, I was merely responding to having been accused of saying that no one ought to buy these speakers. I had not said anything of that sort, and all I was trying to do was to say that I hadn't said that and that as far as I was concerned they are a very good speaker with the caveat that there is reason to be concerned that if played as loudly as many people would want to play them, that the distortion would be bothersome. Should I have completely ignored Amir's findings and said that the speakers are simply perfect in every way? That would be the only way that I could have responded to that phony accusation without incurring something like this from someone like you.

 

[amirm]

Hi all, as the thread seems to have cooled-down but I wouldn’t want to see it die completely, I wondered if someone with the proper software and experience would mind producing the horizontal and vertical directionality heat maps of this speaker based on Amir measurements, despite the issue with the speaker?

I added them just now to the review:

 

[jmillar]

Thats correct however its somewhat inflammatory and if one has a interest in progressive discussion unwise to condemn a product like amirm did here . I actually think given the platform we have here its irresponsible to use the language he did in his conclusion to the ' review ' .

It creates noise , noise interested parties have to trawl through , it also makes the site look unprofessional. The review was a drive by , conclusions drawn where questions should of been ask instead .

The language in the review was not helpful and caused a huge mess when we could of all profited by a different approach.

I guess it makes a splash and brings traffic, ultimately Andrew popped by as a result. Still its a great example of why audio forums are often so inane and depressing and more importantly from ASRs pov and all of you , why industry types and the likes often only take part begrudgingly if at all.

Its not what I wanted to see ASR being , and I'm a bit sad if however resigned to this reality.

A speaker arrived, was duly tested, peculiar sounds ensued. Veredict was pronounced. I think that it must have created a stir, not just among ASR participants but at Elac itself. It is reasonable to think that they studied the case to get to the bottom of things before issuing a premature reply. Goods shipped around the country don't always receive kid glove handling. Occasional 'out of spec' drivers sometimes show up. I think ASR reported on what it saw. Another speaker on test would have ended the issue. I think it's time to move on. There is no pandemic of 'unwell' speakers. I expect to enjoy them for years and eventually give them to my growing grandaughter.

 

[decoRyder]

I bought the ELAC DBR62's after reading Amir's review, and found them to be fantastic. Based on this review, I'll skip the Uni-Fi 2.0's, and I think I made an informed decision. My sincere thanks to Amir for enabling us all to make such informed decisions.

 

[More Dynamics Please]

The review concluded that there was either a design issue or a single unit issue and further testing is underway to definitively determine which so it's premature to assume one or the other. @amirm said he couldn't recommend this speaker "for now" but that could change pending final test results.

 

[realdb]

FYI: Andrew Jones is active from time to time in the ELAC Owners group on Facebook. I assume if someone posts the review there, maybe an official answer could be given.

Can you pls share the link to the group or dm me. I am unable to find it

 

[Abe_W]

If photographs and video clips of the speaker measurement setup/room/etc that went into generating these graphs were posted, it would add more credibility to this review.....Otherwise, credibility is a li'l lacking....It is hard to assume that every dude out there with a Klippel these days knows how to use it.....

 

[boselover61]

If photographs and video clips of the speaker measurement setup/room/etc that went into generating these graphs were posted, it would add more credibility to this review.....Otherwise, credibility is a li'l lacking....It is hard to assume that every dude out there with a Klippel these days knows how to use it.....

They finally unbanned you?

 

[Abe_W]

They finally unbanned you?

Did my comment threaten your peace of mind? If a reviewer has no fear of the scrutinizing eye and certain of his technical aptitude, there shouldn't be any problems posting some photographs and clip outlining his measurement process, i'd think.....

 

[infinitesymphony]

Did my comment threaten your peace of mind? If a reviewer has no fear of the scrutinizing eye and certain of his technical aptitude, there shouldn't be any problems posting some photographs and clip outlining his measurement process, i'd think.....

There's a thread about this process:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ncement-asr-will-be-measuring-speakers.10725/

Improvements have been made along the way, like modifying the microphone protection cage, taking the ambient temperature into account, and accounting for room gain with ported speaker design.