Does the DAC chip or it's specs matter if it feeds the speakers via AES/EBU???

[MFE222]

I hope I could ask the question right.

Because the signal will transfer to the speakers digitally via AES/EBU, it seems we don't use the DAC as a real converter device but only as a transporter, I mean it's just directing the digital signal loaded in the computer, without touching or converting it, doing nothing right? So does it matter if it's a high end DAC, or just a device only having AES/EBU I/O ??

This is a big question confusing me a lot, so I'd like to learn from you more experienced users here about the issue.

Best.

 

[DVDdoug]

it seems we don't use the DAC

Correct. A DAC has analog output.

...So we don't know what kind of DAC (or device) you have or anything about your setup.

But usually nothing the digital domain degrades, or accidentally alters, the sound quality unless you've got data dropouts or something gross like that.

 

[solderdude]

I hope I could ask the question right.

Because the signal will transfer to the speakers digitally via AES/EBU, it seems we don't use the DAC as a real converter device but only as a transporter, I mean it's just directing the digital signal loaded in the computer, without touching or converting it, doing nothing right? So does it matter if it's a high end DAC, or just a device only having AES/EBU I/O ??

This is a big question confusing me a lot, so I'd like to learn from you more experienced users here about the issue.

Best.

You will be using the DAC (chip) inside the speakers in this case (the speakers that have AES/EBU or USB in) and would have to use digital attenuation on the source side.
So you cannot use an external DAC in that case.

 

[Vincent Kars]

it's just directing the digital signal loaded in the computer, without touching or converting it, doing nothing right?

Depends.
The protocol it self (AES/EBU) of course won't alter a single bit.
The computer might do, e.g. volume control, EQ or simply mix and dither in the process.
As others pointed out, AES/EBU is a digital protocol so if you send this to speakers, the DAC of the source is not involved at all.

 

[MCH]

Well, there are DAC chips with spdif outputs, so technically... yes, they might be involved. I even see some potential advantages, as i.e. have a sub connected to the analog outputs of the DAC and your mains via AES clock synced out of the very same DAC chip

 

[Greenman]

If you have digital audio you need a DAC somewhere to convert it to analogue, that might be in a CD player, streamer, stand-alone DAC, built into an amp or built into speakers. Whatever protocol is used to get the digital data to the Dac doesn’t really matter as long as it arrives such that it can be decoded with no bit loses and minimal jitter Etc.

 

[MFE222]

...So we don't know what kind of DAC (or device) you have or anything about your setup.

Well I have a Dangerous Music Source DAC which has an AES/ EBU on it and I want to get a pair of Genelec 8351's .

All I want is

...So we don't know what kind of DAC (or device) you have or anything about your setup.

Well I have an RME ADI/2 DAC . I now want to buy Genelec 8351's and connect them with AES/EBU.

 

[MFE222]

@Greenman @MCH @Vincent Kars @solderdude @DVDdoug

Thank you for the input Sirs!

So according to your posts, even it has enourmus specs and superb converter chips an external DAC is useless when you have an active speaker that has its's own built-in DAC. For my sceneario, it seems I don't need my RME ADI2 DAC anymore. All I need is something like USB to AES converter, and Genelec's own volume controller like this:

YELLOWTEC PUC2 LITE USB AUDIO CONVERTER AES3 I/O

95-838 | YELLOWTEC PUC2 USB AUDIO INTERFACES - Analogue and AES audio | Yellowtec PUC2 series are USB-powered, outboard sound cards, for use with PC or MAC computers. Applications include as a PC interface to professional audio systems and as an interface to digital and…

www.canford.co.uk

9310B Wired Volume Controller - Genelec.com

The Genelec 9310B Volume Controller provides stylish wired volume control for all SAM studio monitors connected to the GLM Network Adapter.

www.genelec.com

The point is, why everyone having this kind of speakers buy expensive DAC's to run them? On every forum or web page I just read people using very high end DAC's to feed Genelec's Kii's or Dutch & Dutch etc... Doesn't really consumers know they can run speakers via AES/EBU digitally with only this kind of more accessible devices? Assuming we don't include the built in headphone amp on the DAC to the formula, is there any benefit else the listeners missing?

 

[soundwave76]

It pains me to see people buy top of the line Genelecs with built-in DSP and DAC and they feed them analog signal via their audiophile DACs and don't understand what they are doing. Happens quite often for example in the Genelec Community facebook group.

 

[soundwave76]

^^ Yes, USB-AES converter in enough. What kind of a setup are you planning? Workstation, living room, studio etc? There are different 'best practices' for volume control.

 

[BDWoody]

The point is, why everyone having this kind of speakers buy expensive DAC's to run them?

Generally because of a lack of understanding.

To add to the silliness, even if you feed it an analog signal through a super special DAC, the analog input will still be digitally sampled before going through the internal DAC anyway.

 

[MFE222]

It pains me to see people buy top of the line Genelecs with built-in DSP and DAC and they feed them analog signal via their audiophile DACs and don't understand what they are doing. Happens quite often for example in the Genelec Community facebook group.

That's the exact thing I wanted to say!

I've also became a member of that community too and all I see is people having more and more high end converters. I now see they don't understand what's going under the hood of these speakers.

^^ Yes, USB-AES converter in enough. What kind of a setup are you planning? Workstation, living room, studio etc? There are different 'best practices' for volume control.

I want to use them for my new mix & mastering studio

 

[solderdude]

All I need is something like USB to AES converter,

Or when the source has an optical or electrical SPDIF output an SPDIF to AES/EBU converter.
AES/EBU is the same digital format as SPDIF but balanced, different levels and using better connectors.

 

[AnalogSteph]

AES/EBU is the same digital format as SPDIF(*) but balanced and using better connectors.

*) Well, mostly. They're close enough that supporting both is not a major stretch but do differ slightly.

Interfacing AES3 and S/PDIF

Two serial interfaces exist: AES3 for professionals and S/PDIF for consumers. Passive conversion between them is possible, with caution.

www.ranecommercial.com

 

[amirm]

The hassle with digital input to an active speaker is figuring out how you are going to implement a volume control. There are not that many obvious choices for this.

 

[soundwave76]

I want to use them for my new mix & mastering studio

You will probably be fine with just the GLM software and your mouse wheel for volume control. Try that first and buy the separate volume knob later if needed.

 

[Music1969]

The hassle with digital input to an active speaker is figuring out how you are going to implement a volume control. There are not that many obvious choices for this.

IR remote control seems easy?

Like KEF include with their DSP active LS50W and LS60

what's difficult?

 

[deep_blue_fisher]

The hassle with digital input to an active speaker is figuring out how you are going to implement a volume control. There are not that many obvious choices for this.

I am about to get Genelec 8330a, and trying not to screw up the details. Could you recommend a volume control solution? (even if it means some DAC device). I will be driving the Genelec from a Windows PC, reluctantly with that cheapo-looking ebay USB->AES converter. Is this a reasonable plan? Thanks in advance for any reply.

 

[unpluggged]

I am about to get Genelec 8330a, and trying not to screw up the details. Could you recommend a volume control solution? (even if it means some DAC device). I will be driving the Genelec from a Windows PC, reluctantly with that cheapo-looking ebay USB->AES converter. Is this a reasonable plan? Thanks in advance for any reply.

1) If you just want a simple means to control the volume, get the GLM volume controller.
2) If you want something more versatile and functional, use an audio interface with digital output that can be assigned to "Main out", such as RME ADI-2 Pro/ADI-2/4 Pro SE or RME UCX II/UFX II/UFX III/UFX+. My personal experience with controlling digital monitors with the ADI-2 Pro is very positive, especially with its dynamic loudness feature.

Controlling volume via the OS software mixer can lead to some very unpleasant experiences (although your speakers will most probably survive it).

 

[MFE222]

I am about to get Genelec 8330a, and trying not to screw up the details. Could you recommend a volume control solution? (even if it means some DAC device). I will be driving the Genelec from a Windows PC, reluctantly with that cheapo-looking ebay USB->AES converter. Is this a reasonable plan? Thanks in advance for any reply.

1) If you just want a simple means to control the volume, get the GLM volume controller.
2) If you want something more versatile and functional, use an audio interface with digital output that can be assigned to "Main out", such as RME ADI-2 Pro/ADI-2/4 Pro SE or RME UCX II/UFX II/UFX III/UFX+. My personal experience with controlling digital monitors with the ADI-2 Pro is very positive, especially with its dynamic loudness feature.

Controlling volume via the OS software mixer can lead to some very unpleasant experiences (although your speakers will most probably survive it).

I have new things learned and happy to share with you;

1) If you're running your speakers digitally, the sound source must send the signal to the speakers at 'full' level ! This means if you're running your DSP speakers like Genelec the One's or etc. via AES, your audio interface's volume knob must be at %100 level, full throttle! That's because; the room correction settings applied on the speakers do work best on the same level that feed the speakers during measurement process, algorithmics do work best on this level. Think you've done the measurement and room correction when your audio interfaces volume knob at half, then you want to listen your speakers at more lower or higher volumes so when you turn the volume knob to a different position, your measured settings and filters etc do not work best like what it was before. For this reason Genelec has a volume controller, which you use with your GLM calibration & controler set that's "9310" . You send the AES signal from your interface to the speakers at full level -> Crossover ->DSP does it's correction @ full volume level -> DA convertion -> Genelec 9310 volume controller reduces volume without any degredation.

2) Genelec announced a new DA converter & speaker controller that's called 9320...It has a built in headphone amplifier, DA converter to send line level audio to your speaker system, and an AES/EBU output to feed AES featured speakers digitally, A volume controller that works exactly what I've mentioned above, you can switch between digital and analog speakers, make mono listening, DIM the volume level, and control the bass management if you have a Genelec DSP sub...Overall I'm very impressed with the unit. It seems it was the missing part of their chain and they've finally complete it. It's actually the pyhsical controller of their GLM software + DA converter+ a headphone amp.

Unio Audio Monitoring Platform 9320A SAM Reference Controller - Genelec.com

Revolutionary Smart Monitoring Device: Elevate Your Listening Experience with Seamless Integration of Reference Quality Loudspeakers and Headphones

www.genelec.com