Do Audio Speakers Break-in?

[antcollinet]

Yes - sounds like forming, not break in.

 

[Spocko]

As humans we crave to simplify and make things we don't quite comprehend into a black and white turf war. This is no different than blind faith.

Yes, tribalism creates an illusion of community and predictability in a chaotic environment, and as nothing is more chaotic than the internet, well tribalism is a near necessity for those that are unable to navigate its trolls and zealots. How easy is it to just say "break-in must work, all my friends say so, I've done it, no harm no foul, and now I'm part of a special club!"

 

[Deleted member 48726]

Yes, tribalism creates an illusion of community and predictability in a chaotic environment, and as nothing is more chaotic than the internet, well tribalism is a near necessity for those that are unable to navigate its trolls and zealots. How easy is it to just say "break-in must work, all my friends say so, I've done it, no harm no foul, and now I'm part of a special club!"

The world is not just true or false. I think there's a lot more evidence to speaker driver break in than not. I think it looks a bit funny, that people hang their hat on the opinion that "it doesn't exist, you silly goat, look at this one test. -You're imagining things" -And just choose to look the other way when provided with contrary documentation. It doesn't provoke me the slightest, I just find it a bit puzzling taking into account that one of the three words in the forums' name is "Science".

 

[cavedriver]

I feel like this is a great thread to hang out in on weeks when Amir doesn't have any interesting new reviews to study and everyone's bored

 

[egellings]

Maybe the engineer can design for a target performance; if he can predict the change in performance due to suspension component break-in, then he designs for that final result, knowing that at first, until the driver breaks in, it won't meet those specs. In time, the driver will drift into those specs as the suspension components settle into their final performance and stay there after break-in.

...either that, or how about burn-in before the driver is sold?

 

[fpitas]

...either that, or how about burn-in before the driver is sold?

Some driver manufacturers do just that. Ken Kantor once showed me the data he took breaking in a bunch of Peerless woofers. But as somebody noted (I hope), in reality the changing T/S parameters tend to cancel when in use, so the end user won't see much change.

 

[Andretti60]

If “burn-in” changes the parameters of a component, how come does it always do for the better? I never heard anyone complaining that after 201 hours, 32 minutes and 52 seconds of burn-in a speaker was sounding bad.

 

[RichB]

If “burn-in” changes the parameters of a component, how come does it always do for the better? I never heard anyone complaining that after 201 hours, 32 minutes and 52 seconds of burn-in a speaker was sounding bad.

A cynic would say: because it discourages returns, but I do think that people break-in to how their system sounds.

- Rich

 

[thecheapseats]

A cynic would say: because it discourages returns, but I do think that people break-in to how their system sounds.

- Rich

yes... people are rather malleable after they spend money...

 

[mhardy6647]

If “burn-in” changes the parameters of a component, how come does it always do for the better? I never heard anyone complaining that after 201 hours, 32 minutes and 52 seconds of burn-in a speaker was sounding bad.

I think it happens, but when it does, they call it burn out.

An example of loudspeaker crossover burn-in that did not go as expected.

 

[YSC]

Or I’ll put it this way, the theoretical burn in mainly says the spider needs the run into shape, it’s more or less like shoes, the first few minutes you wear it and walk, the bottom material gets first flexed enough on the point of deformation are more or less done in softening it up on true required location and it’s done “burning in”, same for the soft rubber used in speakers, any speaker sound (frequency) changes are done running in in the QC phase of the manufacturing process and should not require further burn in for user or even the speaker designer.

And as the running into shape process is continuous and not “ah I reached final” situation, it’s unrealistic if a driver performs to spec needing a few dozen and hundreds of hours, with dramatic sound change compared to right out of factory would suddenly stay just that and not dramatically change another 200 hrs of use

 

[Deleted member 48726]

If “burn-in” changes the parameters of a component, how come does it always do for the better? I never heard anyone complaining that after 201 hours, 32 minutes and 52 seconds of burn-in a speaker was sounding bad.

You may want to read the thread a bit more careful if that's what you got from it. -Unless you are just here for cheap internet points from people sharing your opinion and making fun, then carry on your wayward, son.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

A cynic would say: because it discourages returns, but I do think that people break-in to how their system sounds.

- Rich

Of course, that's not the point being discussed. This is about mechanical break in and whether or not it's audible and understanding when.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

...either that, or how about burn-in before the driver is sold?

Money.

Some do it, some don't. Because of money. SB Acoustics I have linked break in procedure before T&S measurements obviously don't do it.

 

[Deleted member 48726]

I feel like this is a great thread to hang out in on weeks when Amir doesn't have any interesting new reviews to study and everyone's bored

I'm sure there are many other ways that keep you better occupied than following a thread that doesn't interest you?

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

Maybe for some drivers, maybe not for others. It will logically vary depending on the used materials and the design IMO.
Edit: it would be helpful if some manufacturer has published their process in this regard. I will try to look into this driver I have linked to before.

An example of a speaker manufacturer showing "green" and burn in changes and detailing the process is here:

https://www.wavecor.com/html/wf182bd03_04_07_08.html

Other manufacturers have similar "pre-conditioning" stated in their customer approval specifications, including for hf drivers. I had occasion to review many such sheets as I commissioned and co-designed a number of drivers.

Thor

 

[Thorsten Loesch]

Yes, tribalism creates an illusion of community and predictability in a chaotic environment, and as nothing is more chaotic than the internet, well tribalism is a near necessity for those that are unable to navigate its trolls and zealots. How easy is it to just say "break-in must work, all my friends say so, I've done it, no harm no foul, and now I'm part of a special club!"

Actually, "burn in" that is change of characteristics with time and use towards design center parsmeters, including operational ones, are well documented for almost all electronic, electric and electromechanical (and mechanical) components.

So I really cannot understand the debate. Burn in is an established fact. Deal with it. If that puts your world view into question, maybe your world view required correction (and rectification)?

V.I.T.R.I.O.L. - "Visita Interiora Terræ Rectificando Invenies Occultum Lapidem"

So if there is any tribalism and self deception it obviously goes like this: "break-in must NEVER EVER work, all my friends say so, I've done it, no harm no foul, and now I'm part of a special club!"

How audible such changes may be can be debated. Their existence cannot.

But there is little agreement on what is reliably audible and what is reliably inaudible and what are edge cases, and what scientific research is admissiable the to the debate that any debate resembles that of a cargo-cultitist berating a witchdoctor on a pacific island for being unscientific.

Thor

 

[solderdude]

Other manufacturers have similar "pre-conditioning" stated in their customer approval specifications, including for hf drivers. I had occasion to review many such sheets as I commissioned and co-designed a number of drivers.

Does this break-in (would not call it burn-in which is a different thing in my mind) that minutes, hours, days, weeks, months, years or decades ?
What would be the average time before one can use it. (The linked data sheet states 2 hours and 10 hours 'rest')
That would be a far cry from the years some make it out to be.

Comparing 2 speakers that were both manufactured around the same time and checked for performance, one was used 'normally' and the other was stored in ideal condition and then later on (say a year or so) where measured again would reveal difference due to 'usage'

A question would be would headphone drivers be affected in a similar way ? Very different construction, materials, scale, mass, 'beating' it has gotten.
I have measured new headphones, for instance, right out of the box (without listening to it first), played with them, measured them again and even measured them years later again (same fixture, same everything) and found no real differences that could not be explained by differences in positioning, pad wear.

Speakers... I am sure there is break-in. But how long does it take is the biggest question. I mean, how can one tune a bass port if the speaker resonance point keeps on changing?

Other than anecdotal (mine is obvious also anecdotal) do you have any official documentation you can share, say a now obsolete product, which would not be under an NDA ?

 

[Beave]

Actually, "burn in" that is change of characteristics with time and use towards design center parsmeters, including operational ones, are well documented for almost all electronic, electric and electromechanical (and mechanical) components.

...

I don't remember seeing anything in data sheets for "burn in" of electronic or electric components. Not resistors, not caps, not inductors, not transistors, not rectifiers, not op amps, not DAC ICs, not microprocessors, not memory ICs..

But maybe I just missed it.

 

[thewas]

The problem is that the compliance change of elastomers like a woofers surround or spider is also a function of temperature / warming up and even partially reversible after some time so there is not just change into one direction but the system should be optimised to be robust enough for a wide range operating conditions. The good thing though is that with good design those changes vary the frequency response so little that it is usually not audible. By the way the heating up of the voice coil also introduces a change in the loudspeakers behaviour which is usually not compensated https://www.tonmeister.ca/wordpress/2014/01/16/bo-tech-thermal-compression-compensation/