DIRAC AND ROOM TREATMENT

[abdo123]

Trapping low frequencies takes a lot of volume and mass. Nothing effective will physically fit in your room.

he can fairly easily manage frequencies above 100 Hz with acoustic panels, and his measurments show no downward tilting so he obviously lacks absorption there too.

 

[Georgeadv]

Abdo you mentioned gik diffusion/absorption panels for the back wall. Isnt my couch too close for diffusion?

 

[txbdan]

he can fairly easily manage frequencies above 100 Hz with acoustic panels, and his measurments show no downward tilting so he obviously lacks absorption there too.

Yeh, but he can easily shape the room response with full range correction. Absorption certainly won't hurt, but if you're already correcting, you might as well go all the way and not have weird panels all over the living room.

 

[abdo123]

Abdo you mentioned gik diffusion/absorption panels for the back wall. Isnt my couch too close for diffusion?

I picked these because they absorp well and look pretty. not really because of the diffusion plate. it's what I would buy.

 

[Georgeadv]

I picked these because they absorp well and look pretty. not really because of the diffusion plate. it's what I would buy.

Yes but would i have an issue with the difussion being close to the wall?

 

[abdo123]

Yeh, but he can easily shape the room response with full range correction. Absorption certainly won't hurt, but if you're already correcting, you might as well go all the way and not have weird panels all over the living room.

He has over 10 dB error rate above 100 Hz due to proximity to the walls, full range correction will never ever be able to fix that.

I mean sure he can run some REW filters and call it a day but since he payed ~5000$ for that setup I personally would not pass that performance as 'good enough' for that sort of money.

 

[abdo123]

Yes but would i have an issue with the difussion being close to the wall?

I don't think so, feel free to get one of their regular panels that 'absorbs everything' with just a fabric finish if you don't mind it aesthetically. Just make sure to target the location behind your head, the corners, and not to cover more than 20% of the wall with panels.

 

[youngho]

Rule of thumb is to expect to treat at least 20-25% of a boundary, so the overall amount of surface area proposed for treatment seems reasonable to me. They did put some thought into treating the adjacent space, which is likely to to beneficial. I believe that the Vicoustic products overall are more expensive relative to performance, compared with GiK, but I do like the cosmetics of a number of them. The one product you might still consider purchasing from Vicoustic, even if you are happy with GiK, is the Multifuser DC2. Depending on where you live, Thomann may provide competitive pricing to your local dealer. Thomann also carries other diffusion products like t.akustik and Adelsklang, which may be worth considering.

 

[Georgeadv]

He has over 10 dB error rate above 100 Hz due to proximity to the walls, full range correction will never ever be able to fix that.

I mean sure he can run some REW filters and call it a day but since he payed ~5000$ for that setup I personally would not pass that performance as 'good enough' for that sort of money.

Exactly, I am willing to pay more to fix the room because of the initial investment and i would like to use the less eq possible

 

[Georgeadv]

I don't think so, feel free to get one of their regular panels that 'absorbs everything' with just a fabric finish if you don't mind it aesthetically. Just make sure to target the location behind your head, the corners, and not to cover more than 20% of the wall with panels.

I will try to do that

 

[Georgeadv]

Rule of thumb is to expect to treat at least 20-25% of a boundary, so the overall amount of surface area proposed for treatment seems reasonable to me. They did put some thought into treating the adjacent space, which is likely to to beneficial. I believe that the Vicoustic products overall are more expensive relative to performance, compared with GiK, but I do like the cosmetics of a number of them. The one product you might still consider purchasing from Vicoustic, even if you are happy with GiK, is the Multifuser DC2. Depending on where you live, Thomann may provide competitive pricing to your local dealer. Thomann also carries other diffusion products like t.akustik and Adelsklang, which may be worth considering.

Is the diffusor worth it? It will be 2.80 cm distance from LP

 

[youngho]

Yes but would i have an issue with the difussion being close to the wall?

Is the diffusor worth it? It will be 2.80 cm distance from LP

It's probably worth differentiating between types of diffusion. True broadband diffusion requires some distance from the listening position, but the combined absorption/"diffusion" products are not that (here's some commentary that may be illustrative: https://www.realacoustixllc.com/blog-3/2016/12/1/the-gud-the-bad-and-the-fast). Even the DC2 isn't that deep, so not really broadband, but it's relatively inexpensive, lightweight so easy to mount on the ceiling, and reasonably attractive.

I would do thicker absorption directly behind the listening position, preferably 6-8" (15-20 cm) deep, maybe combined absorption/"diffusion" to the sides behind, definitely not just absorption on the wall behind the speakers. The setup is so asymmetric that you're only going to get so far.

 

[Georgeadv]

It's probably worth differentiating between types of diffusion. True broadband diffusion requires some distance from the listening position, but the combined absorption/"diffusion" products are not that (here's some commentary that may be illustrative: https://www.realacoustixllc.com/blog-3/2016/12/1/the-gud-the-bad-and-the-fast). Even the DC2 isn't that deep, so not really broadband, but it's relatively inexpensive, lightweight so easy to mount on the ceiling, and reasonably attractive.

I would do thicker absorption directly behind the listening position, preferably 6-8" (15-20 cm) deep, maybe combined absorption/"diffusion" to the sides behind, definitely not just absorption on the wall behind the speakers. The setup is so asymmetric that you're only going to get so far.

Thanks for clarifying that!

I will use 15cm absorption/diffusion GIK behind the LP and monster traps with limiter behind the speakers and probably the dc2 since is relatively inexpensive

I will do what I can but i cannot buy another apartment

 

[Georgeadv]

Hello to all!

I am trying to eq my lower freq (up to 150hz)

Is there any difference to the eq provided by dirac vs rew for such freq?

Also my left speaker has significantly more nulls and peaks (broadband) than the left… is that due to reflections or is it something else going on ? ( the right speaker is on the open side of the room)

One last question! If I have room gain and room mode how adding subs can help address this ? Wouldnt that amplify it?

Thanks!

Thanks!

 

[oursmagenta]

I will do what I can but i cannot buy another apartment

Or another wife .
WAF limit has been reached at 8 panels (13cm thick).
The limit may depend on your model though (wife and panel included).

PS: dear love if by any chance you read this, I thank you so much for allowing me to destroy our living room asethetic for the sake of the greater (audio) good.

PPS: @Georgeadv, I managed to smooth out the room response, but to be honest the biggest improvement was on the RT60, or the reverb. Going from 450ms-500ms to 300-350ms (I will have to recheck my measurements) was like night and day. Also the RT60 graph is now smoother, but I don't known if that is also helping or not.

 

[abdo123]

One last question! If I have room gain and room mode how adding subs can help address this ? Wouldnt that amplify it?

Thanks!

Thanks!

the best place to put a speaker in a room is usually the worst place to reproduce subbass from, so when you get a subwoofer you get to choose where to place it and you can place it in a way that neutralizes the modes.

 

[Eetu]

One last question! If I have room gain and room mode how adding subs can help address this ? Wouldnt that amplify it?

Taken from Toole's bible:

In short: subwoofers act as active bass traps when placed optimally.

 

[Georgeadv]

Or another wife .
WAF limit has been reached at 8 panels (13cm thick).
The limit may depend on your model though (wife and panel included).

PS: dear love if by any chance you read this, I thank you so much for allowing me to destroy our living room asethetic for the sake of the greater (audio) good.

PPS: @Georgeadv, I managed to smooth out the room response, but to be honest the biggest improvement was on the RT60, or the reverb. Going from 450ms-500ms to 300-350ms (I will have to recheck my measurements) was like night and day. Also the RT60 graph is now smoother, but I don't known if that is also helping or not.

Thats great to hear!

I have no wife so happy life! (Joking)

 

[Georgeadv]

the best place to put a speaker in a room is usually the worst place to reproduce subbass from, so when you get a subwoofer you get to choose where to place it and you can place it in a way that neutralizes the modes.

Yes but my speakers will be still producing that bass - they will be working full range

 

[Georgeadv]

Taken from Toole's bible:
View attachment 131085
In short: subwoofers act as active bass traps when placed optimally.

Thanks i will review…

This book was suggested but I am afraid it is too advanced - technical for my understanding