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DIRAC AND ROOM TREATMENT

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Apr 3, 2021
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#1
Hello guys,

I have ls50 meta paired with Hegel h190.

my room is open on the right side and the speakers do not sound as good.(I attach a photo)

The bass in certain frequencies is boomy and the treble can be fatiguing. The center image is good but not very precise.

I received advise from GIK acoustics (UK) to place 2 corner tri traps (on back corners) and get 3 diffusers/absorbers for the back wall again.

The price is rather high but i dont know if this will work - have no prior experience with treatment.

looking into this I found Dirac. could i use that rather than go full treatment or would it alter - reduce the quality of the sound? ( I see that eq software is mainly used for home cinema and not for stereo)

Also can i use dirac on my mac using to stream music to the hegel via audirvana?

I dont have a lot of experience in hifi and your advice would be really helpful :)


1617465921176.jpeg
 

Hephaestus

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Joined
Jun 2, 2019
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Rapture
#2
Hello guys,

I have ls50 meta paired with Hegel h190.

my room is open on the right side and the speakers do not sound as good.(I attach a photo)

The bass in certain frequencies is boomy and the treble can be fatiguing. The center image is good but not very precise.

I received advise from GIK acoustics (UK) to place 2 corner tri traps (on back corners) and get 3 diffusers/absorbers for the back wall again.

The price is rather high but i dont know if this will work - have no prior experience with treatment.

looking into this I found Dirac. could i use that rather than go full treatment or would it alter - reduce the quality of the sound? ( I see that eq software is mainly used for home cinema and not for stereo)

Also can i use dirac on my mac using to stream music to the hegel via audirvana?

I dont have a lot of experience in hifi and your advice would be really helpful :)


View attachment 121776
Hello and welcome to ASR!

Dirac or any decent room eq is the most sensible solution in a domestic setup like yours to get rid of the boominess. In my experience Dirac improves stereo image as well.

That naked back wall just behind listening seat worries me. You need there something to control reflections. Diffusors wont work that close.

My advice is to read Dr. Toole’s Sound reproduction book (3rd edition) and to get UMIK-1 and REW before investing more money into your system.
 

Eetu

Senior Member
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Location
Helsinki
#4
Hello guys,

I have ls50 meta paired with Hegel h190.

my room is open on the right side and the speakers do not sound as good.(I attach a photo)

The bass in certain frequencies is boomy and the treble can be fatiguing. The center image is good but not very precise.

I received advise from GIK acoustics (UK) to place 2 corner tri traps (on back corners) and get 3 diffusers/absorbers for the back wall again.

The price is rather high but i dont know if this will work - have no prior experience with treatment.

looking into this I found Dirac. could i use that rather than go full treatment or would it alter - reduce the quality of the sound? ( I see that eq software is mainly used for home cinema and not for stereo)

Also can i use dirac on my mac using to stream music to the hegel via audirvana?

I dont have a lot of experience in hifi and your advice would be really helpful :)


View attachment 121776
Hi,

Looking at your placement would it be possible to pull the whole setup closer to the TV? So the sofa off the back wall and the Metas closer to the front wall. This would help with reflections from the back wall a bit and the Metas would get some boundary gain/headroom for room correction.

And since you have a strong 1st reflection from the L speaker (and the right side is open) maybe you could get a freestanding panel from GIK. You could place it next to the window only when critical listening/watching a movie.

And as Hephaestus said, I wouldn't use diffusion such a short distance from listening position. Use absorption on the back wall.

And as far as room correction for stereo only?.. hell yeah! I don't know how well the Mac/PC Dirac standalone version works, but one option is adding MiniDSP SHD or DDRC-24 to the chain.
 
OP
G
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Thread Starter #5
Hello guys and thank you both.
i do not own a microphone but i will purchase that now... :p
I could use free trial i suppose :)

once i get the microphone i will do a test and post the results here.

What is Rew?
 
OP
G
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Thread Starter #6
Hi,

Looking at your placement would it be possible to pull the whole setup closer to the TV? So the sofa off the back wall and the Metas closer to the front wall. This would help with reflections from the back wall a bit and the Metas would get some boundary gain/headroom for room correction.

And since you have a strong 1st reflection from the L speaker (and the right side is open) maybe you could get a freestanding panel from GIK. You could place it next to the window only when critical listening/watching a movie.

And as Hephaestus said, I wouldn't use diffusion such a short distance from listening position. Use absorption on the back wall.

And as far as room correction for stereo only?.. hell yeah! I don't know how well the Mac/PC Dirac standalone version works, but one option is adding MiniDSP SHD or DDRC-24 to the chain.
Many thanks for your advice as well!
Actually i pulled the couch further - closer to the metas. Now the back wall is 50cm away - metas are 80cm from the front wall - and listening position is 2.1 meters from the center of the speakers

i cant get the metas back as it makes the bass too boomy.

the panel you mentioned should be placed next to the speaker or in the corner behind it?
 

jerome

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#7
Hello guys and thank you both.
i do not own a microphone but i will purchase that now... :p
I could use free trial i suppose :)

once i get the microphone i will do a test and post the results here.

What is Rew?
Hi,
with REW you can do the measurements and create filters, similarly to Dirac.

Creation of filters in Dirac is a simpler and more straightforward procedure for unexperienced users.
 

abdo123

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#9
Dirac is a good first step before you do physical changes to your living space.

i think the speakers were measured here on this forum, use any filters Amir or Maiky posted + Dirac on top and you should get really close to a reference system.

the problem with EQ is that it optimizes only for a small spot, not for everyone in the room.

be careful with room treatments, you might fuck things up more than fixing them.
 

Eetu

Senior Member
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#10
See this video for a quick guide:

I wouldn't buy any treatment before taking 'baseline' measurements and trying out Dirac. After Dirac it could be that the 'bass traps' are not worth it (from a cost/effectiveness/aesthetics POV).
 
OP
G
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Thread Starter #11
Dirac is a good first step before you do physical changes to your living space.

i think the speakers were measured here on this forum, use any filters Amir or Maiky posted + Dirac on top and you should get really close to a reference system.

the problem with EQ is that it optimizes only for a small spot, not for everyone in the room.

be careful with room treatments, you might fuck things up more than fixing them.
oh okay - am glad that i reached out first before pulling the trigger...

Has Amir tested the metas? How to use his measurements?
Btw i had a BW formation bar and it also sounded awful in this spot - if this is something to consider
 
OP
G
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Thread Starter #12
See this video for a quick guide:

I wouldn't buy any treatment before taking 'baseline' measurements and trying out Dirac. After Dirac it could be that the 'bass traps' are not worth it (from a cost/effectiveness/aesthetics POV).
Many thanks!!!

i will watch it !

i have ordered the microphone. It should be here early next week
 
OP
G
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Thread Starter #14
Great! Try not to EQ anything above 200-300 Hz unless you have a very good reason to.
I will post the base line here and consult you first before doing anything.. :p

I dont want to mess things up or damage anything
 

jerome

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#15
oh okay - am glad that i reached out first before pulling the trigger...

Has Amir tested the metas? How to use his measurements?
Btw i had a BW formation bar and it also sounded awful in this spot - if this is something to consider
Hi,
Once you receive the mic, perform your own measurements at listening position(s).
You do not have to use other measurements.
 

Jim Matthews

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#16
Before applying any treatments to the room, a few experiments in positioning might help. I find the coaxial driver design emphatic in the upper reach of human voices.

Do you have a shorter stand that would allow you to get closer to the room boundaries? I suspect the hard surfaces are selectively reflective of higher frequencies.

If you point each speaker so they "cross" in front of your listening position, can you still get a stable image?

If you plug the LS50 port (a rolled sock or "pool noodle" will do) does the bass balance still seem acceptable?

*****

You have a nice room with a clean look. I would be cautious about any treatments that A) Can't be returned or B) Have an obvious color scheme.

I have several simple panels from ATS. They're probably just pillow stuffing on a plywood backing board with a stretched muslin cover. I can't recall what they cost, but they were mail order and I'm cheap.

https://www.atsacoustics.com/
 
Joined
Feb 19, 2021
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#17
Have you tried placing the speakers closer together and toed in so as to create more of an equilateral triangle? I think you can get a better response by tweaking the speaker position. This will not get you all of the way there, but you might be satisfied. Reflections from the coffee table, non-symmetrical space, etc, are always going to restrict getting an ideal but you have to work with what you’ve got. I’d agree that ideally you could do with some dampening on the wall behind the sofa to stop reflections. Room correction software will probably be your best bet in the long run and will resolve some, but not all, of your issues.
 
Last edited:
OP
G
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Thread Starter #18
Before applying any treatments to the room, a few experiments in positioning might help. I find the coaxial driver design emphatic in the upper reach of human voices.

Do you have a shorter stand that would allow you to get closer to the room boundaries? I suspect the hard surfaces are selectively reflective of higher frequencies.

If you point each speaker so they "cross" in front of your listening position, can you still get a stable image?

If you plug the LS50 port (a rolled sock or "pool noodle" will do) does the bass balance still seem acceptable?

*****

You have a nice room with a clean look. I would be cautious about any treatments that A) Can't be returned or B) Have an obvious color scheme.

I have several simple panels from ATS. They're probably just pillow stuffing on a plywood backing board with a stretched muslin cover. I can't recall what they cost, but they were mail order and I'm cheap.

https://www.atsacoustics.com/
I have the s2 stands of kef but if i place the speakers near the front wall, the bass will be unbearable..

I tried experimenting with positioning but its difficult because i cant place it near the window and neither to far into the room because of the tv :S

If a cross them I get better definition of the soundstage but its harsh on the treble...

I have the left speaker plugged with the foam only and it helps but there is still boomy bass in certain frequencies... if i go behind the speaker and into the corner the sound is bloated in comparison to the right speaker (open plan)

Thanks :) I took that into account but if there is nothing else that I can do I will have at least to treat the corners...
 
OP
G
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Thread Starter #19
Have you tried placing the speakers closer together and toed in so as to create more of an equilateral triangle? I think you can get a better response by tweaking the speaker position. This will not get you all of the way there, but you might be satisfied. Reflections from the coffee table, non-symmetrical space, etc, are always going to restrict getting an ideal but you have to work with what you’ve got. I’d agree that ideally you could do with some dampening on the wall behind the sofa to stop reflections. Room correction software will probably be your best bet in the long run and will resolve some, but not all, of your issues.
if i keep them closer the soundstage is reduced and i dont prefer that :S it feels small :p
If a toe in a lot its better in terms of definition but it harsh sounding..

the wall or would it be better to treat the corners of the back wall first?
 

Eetu

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#20
i cant get the metas back as it makes the bass too boomy.

the panel you mentioned should be placed next to the speaker or in the corner behind it?
This was what I was referring to with 'headroom for room correction'. If you place the speakers, say 10cm from the front wall you get boomy bass but you can also use this to your advantage. Once you let REW/Dirac handle the bass peaks above your target curve, you benefit from a few dBs of 'free' headroom and bass extension. When you get Dirac, you can try whether this method or your current placement works best.

Re: the left speaker, I meant the first reflection point. Check this video how to find it. Since you have a strong L side wall reflection and 'missing' R reflection this should help balance the soundstage.

In any case, if I could treat only one spot I would add absorption panels behind the listening position. Since the wall is so close behind (even at 50cm) to me it seems to be the most harmful.
 
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