Denon AVR-X6700H Home Theater AVR Review

[Bello]

@amirm

Also, Denon support has Not been able to get me a master list or any information (due 8/5 per Denon to ASR email) for the 6700H Capacitor issue. Would it be possible, you call the engineering group directly? requesting an update... You worked with engineering back when you were trouble shooting 4700H, further commending the engineering group for there professionalism / forwardness. Please help us get through this dilemma, quickly. , You're the best! Thank you!

 

[Archaea]

This took an odd turn - so what accounts for the poorer measurements then, if not the capacitors Denon originally said were at fault?

 

[Bello]

I raised a support request with Denon yesterday about my X6700 regarding the capacitor issue.

Today I have received a response, to say that I'm dissapointed would be an understatement:



I have replied stating that I'm not happy and asking for clarification. If they refuse to replace the unit despite confirming the issue then I will have to initiate a return with my dealer and I won't be considering a Denon device in future.

Fillus- an hour ago, I had the same conversation with a level 3 support person. When questioned, I was put on hold as he (most likely Skype'ing) level 2. He gave the same response as to no degraded performance, I replied NO, per ASR test results. I further explained to him in layman terms, and to relay my message. "If I purchased a Ferrari, and the manufacture ran out of the tested, fitted Pirelli tires due to COVID.... Instead, they were fitted w/Cooper tires". "Later, unknowingly, a test driver named (Amirm) During his first test run around the race track, he hit the wall rounding turn 1 due to degraded tires". His response, well, well, choke, cough, its not the same.

This system will be heading back for a full refund if I don't receive a reasonable timely response to my inquiry.

 

[hmt]

Well, the product fulfills the advertised specs. I do not see a legal basis for complaint.

 

[Urgo]

Well, the product fulfills the advertised specs. I do not see a legal basis for complaint.

This is at least relative, if they justified the poor results of ASR to the replacement of the capacitors they usually use by others that they themselves catalogued as insufficient.

Read the first page of this thread:
"The initial results ASR shared were surprising and prompted an investigation, which resulted in Denon engineering identifying measurement irregularities caused by a particular capacitor used in the initial production run to mitigate a supply issue caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. The latest production units have the capacitor Denon typically uses, which does not show the same measurement results".

 

[Bello]

This is at least relative, if they justified the poor results of ASR to the replacement of the capacitors they usually use by others that they themselves catalogued as insufficient.

Read the first page of this thread:
"The initial results ASR shared were surprising and prompted an investigation, which resulted in Denon engineering identifying measurement irregularities caused by a particular capacitor used in the initial production run to mitigate a supply issue caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. The latest production units have the capacitor Denon typically uses, which does not show the same measurement results".

Case in Point.

Thank you...

 

[amirm]

@amirm Does the capacitor issue only affect pre-amp output? Or any time the DAC is used? I just purchased a 6700 to use primarily for Atmos and movie playback from HDMI sources. I don’t use the pre-out, but if this issue impacts all digital > analog conversion I’m concerned it would impact my primary use case :-/ Thanks for the thorough analysis!

My guess is that it affects everything or Denon would have told me this is specific to pre-out. Pre-out is a tap in the middle of the pipeline you are using so unless it has its own buffer stage and that is where the problem is, I say it impacts everything.

 

[amirm]

In principle, a 24/192 test signal in an Atmos envelope should be the best. It will activate the whole DSP glory: Atmos decoding, downsample to 48kHZ, room correction, DAC (re)upsample-filters, etc.

For atmos decoding to turn on, the stream needs to be atmos encoded. I don't have any such source signal. I searched quickly and it doesn't look like Audio Precision has one either. One would need an encoder for that. So no, it is not practical to turn this option on.

 

[amirm]

@amirm

Also, Denon support has Not been able to get me a master list or any information (due 8/5 per Denon to ASR email) for the 6700H Capacitor issue. Would it be possible, you call the engineering group directly? requesting an update... You worked with engineering back when you were trouble shooting 4700H, further commending the engineering group for there professionalism / forwardness. Please help us get through this dilemma, quickly. , You're the best! Thank you!

I am sorry I don't understand your question. What update would I ask for?

FYI the unit they sent me just got here. But I can't test it this minute as there are other pressing reviews to get out.

 

[Bello]

The Cap issue is in the Pre-Amp stage. No way around it, as Amirm posted w/ his findings a couple of times. All channels will be affected.

 

[peng]

I am sorry I don't understand your question. What update would I ask for?

FYI the unit they sent me just got here. But I can't test it this minute as there are other pressing reviews to get out.

I thought you said they were to send you another 3600, so did you mean they sent you a 6700? One that has the right cap?

 

[voodooless]

I’d be inclined to wager that the “improved” version will not have a much better SINAD at all..

 

[peng]

I’d be inclined to wager that the “improved” version will not have a much better SINAD at all..

If what they said about the substituted cap was true, then there is little reason to believe one that has the originally specified cap would not have much better SINAD. It should be within a couple dB from the 3700/4700, you would think..

 

[Bello]

I am sorry I don't understand your question. What update would I ask for?

FYI the unit they sent me just got here. But I can't test it this minute as there are other pressing reviews to get out.

What I understood was that Denon would have a list of affected units. We were advised to call the support line on 8/5 to find out if your s/n had the bad caps installed.

I was asking if you could drop them a line and find out what there plans are in resolving / means of communicating the said bad cap units in question.

Thanks...

 

[amirm]

I thought you said they were to send you another 3600, so did you mean they sent you a 6700? One that has the right cap?

I got both. The 3600 arrived and yes, I had requested a 6700 with cap fix and that is what just came.

 

[amirm]

What I understood was that Denon would have a list of affected units. We were advised to call the support line on 8/5 to find out if your s/n had the bad caps installed.

I was asking if you could drop them a line and find out what there plans are in resolving / means of communicating the said bad cap units in question.

Thanks...

Ah, OK. Let me test the new unit so that I have that information to communicate with them as well.

 

[voodooless]

If what they said about the substituted cap was true, then there is little reason to believe one that has the originally specified cap would not have much better SINAD. It should be within a couple dB from the 3700/4700, you would think..

I’ll believe it when I see it..they also said that they would substitute customers receivers..

And I’ll say it once more since nobody seems to care: there is also still the mystery of the stopband attenuation.. no cap will fix that.

Why does the manual not mention D.D.S.C. or AL32 in any way? When is it active? When not? What does it actually do?

 

[bigguyca]

I’ll believe it when I see it..they also said that they would substitute customers receivers..

And I’ll say it once more since nobody seems to care: there is also still the mystery of the stopband attenuation.. no cap will fix that.

Why does the manual not mention D.D.S.C. or AL32 in any way? When is it active? When not? What does it actually do?

Based on lots of Internet searches the answers so far are:

1) No idea

2) Nothing, pure marketing fluff. This is a good answer. The components in the Denon products are capable of excellent performance (not that they always achieve it) without some added magic.

Marantz's marketing adds HDAM's and non-standard reconstruction filters that appear to negatively affect performance.

 

[Pepperjack]

Yikes...been following this and am really surprised toSee the decision not to replace them now...sounds like somebody probably got in trouble if that’s the case...

also, as to the issue with multi-channel and stereo via hdmi...how can one determine if the signal it is sending is multi channel...I use amazon music via fire stick and so was unclear if it would have that problem or not.

 

[Anterantz]

This is at least relative, if they justified the poor results of ASR to the replacement of the capacitors they usually use by others that they themselves catalogued as insufficient.

Read the first page of this thread:
"The initial results ASR shared were surprising and prompted an investigation, which resulted in Denon engineering identifying measurement irregularities caused by a particular capacitor used in the initial production run to mitigate a supply issue caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. The latest production units have the capacitor Denon typically uses, which does not show the same measurement results".

come on guys denon said his measurements had changed but not that the final sound was crap!

You should not want to replace all the units since first thing they said that their engineers had given the go-ahead.

You give it too many laps, one thing is that you return it because it gets too hot or that it protects itself when you turn it on but for 10db of less sinad?

58db from sinad has the nad t758 v3 and I don't see anyone complaining at nad and asking for a replacement.

would anyone of you bet on a blind test that avr sounds worse if a 3700/6700?