Denon AVR-X6700H Home Theater AVR Review

[lashto]

You have to be more specific than this. I did test streaming performance and effect of bass management which should be representative of all other processing on frequency response.

Room EQ testing in this context is very difficult so I can't go there.

well, you are the expert

In principle, a 24/192 test signal in an Atmos envelope should be the best. It will activate the whole DSP glory: Atmos decoding, downsample to 48kHZ, room correction, DAC (re)upsample-filters, etc.
No idea if such a signal exists or if it's possible to generate one without paying Dolby fees. It may be possible to generate losless 7.1 Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master-HD, at least there are some open source tools for those. Or at a minimum, a 7.1 multichannel PCM at 24/192 is surely possible to generate.
Also no idea how will such a signal work with your test setup but IIRC Roon can play all the above.

As for the output tests:

• test DAC/pre outputs. Ideally all of them and at minimum: one of the left/right mains, center, subwoofer and one of the surrounds.
• test Amp outputs. Same as above (except SW)

And yes, I do know that I am asking a giant lot. That is however what we are hearing from an AVR, what is advertised/sold and what we all pay for. Somebody else already put it very well in a diff thread: testing/using an AVR in two-channel DAC mode is like testing/using a 4K TV in black&white mode.

 

[lashto]

It's good to learn that the all the HDMI ports support VESA DSC 1.2a. That's great to hear. It hasn't been mentioned anywhere. Thanks for the update. With compression the negative effects of slightly lower raw speeds are potentially greatly reduced.

are you sure about that VESA compression? On the fly compression of such huge bitrates sounds quite expensive. SU complained that even 2.1 matrix switches were too expensive and those need much less processing power.
Also VESA compression on the AVR side is useless if the TV/beamer does not support it. Haven't heard of any of those either.

If you have some examples of clear/specified DSC 1.2a compression support, highly welcome!

 

[KC-Narnia]

Elaborate please...

First of all, I think the 6700 is getting way too hot compared to the 8500 (even after short time usage and low volume). It is of course very individual with sound and these are just my observations.
I think it has a better (warmer, more detailed and deeper) sound when playing / listening to CDs, streaming (Bluesound, Tidal and HEOS), vinyl records, UHD blu-ray and Netflix / Amazon etc. I know it's a more expensive amplifier, but did not expect it to be that much better.
It also has a better image than the 6700 when both upscaling analog and digital media / files. But also when playing UHD blu-rays and other 4K material.
Just my thoughts on the subject.

 

[bigguyca]

are you sure about that VESA compression? On the fly compression of such huge bitrates sounds quite expensive. SU complained that even 2.1 matrix switches were too expensive and those need much less processing power.
Also VESA compression on the AVR side is useless if the TV/beamer does not support it. Haven't heard of any of those either.

If you have some examples of clear/specified DSC 1.2a compression support, highly welcome!

Compression is part of the HDMI 2.1 standard.

A quote from your previous post: all other HDMI ports are capable of the HDMI 2.1 functions outside of the 4K/120Hz or 8K/60HZ

You are the one who is claiming that compression is included in the Denon products since you are not excluding it in your statement.

Since the HDMI 2.1 standard includes compression your statement above means that you claiming that compression is included. Were you mistaken? Why are you asking me for examples to support your claim?

 

[lashto]

Compression is part of the HDMI 2.1 standard.

A quote from your previous post: all other HDMI ports are capable of the HDMI 2.1 functions outside of the 4K/120Hz or 8K/60HZ

You are the one who is claiming that compression is included in the Denon products since you are not excluding it in your statement.

Since the HDMI 2.1 standard includes compression your statement above means that you claiming that compression is included. Were you mistaken? Why are you asking me for examples to support your claim?

sounds like a misunderstanding.
Yes compression is part of the 2.1 standard but I do not know of any TV/AVR/etc that actually provides it. I just thought you did, my bad.

 

[Bello]

First of all, I think the 6700 is getting way too hot compared to the 8500 (even after short time usage and low volume). It is of course very individual with sound and these are just my observations.
I think it has a better (warmer, more detailed and deeper) sound when playing / listening to CDs, streaming (Bluesound, Tidal and HEOS), vinyl records, UHD blu-ray and Netflix / Amazon etc. I know it's a more expensive amplifier, but did not expect it to be that much better.
It also has a better image than the 6700 when both upscaling analog and digital media / files. But also when playing UHD blu-rays and other 4K material.
Just my thoughts on the subject.

I had the same thoughts concerning heat prior /and while testing the 6700H. After investigating the issue, and also pulling down physical Pic's of the internal chassis of the 4700H, 6700H and 8500H. The 8500H has better heat management just by the size / foot print of the unit. Along with the Amplifiers on larger heat sinks. You have two sizable heat sinks in your unit which are separated from each other / split AMPS vs 6700H Only One large heat sink w/ 11 amps running across it in series. The heat emanating from 6700H from the front right side indicates Main channels LCR which are always active. From music to movies, more power ~ more heat generated in that area of the heat sink amp. Remember, those amplifiers are in series, in one line. One after another or in the case of the 4700H two smaller heat sinks sandwiched together. A bit lesser heat due to 9 amp spec vs 11 on the 6700H. My thoughts on all the heat issues. I did consider the 8500H w/ 150W (2) channel or get either the 4700H / 6700H and spend the savings on a great Emotiva AMP. I spec'd out the Emotiva with 7 channel 275W per channel, constant power. No shell games here like Denon processing / distributing power across all channels. After all said and done you have a small fraction of the power per channel for even the 8500H.

Emotiva XPA-7 GEN 3 7 amp. I believe is the better implementation cost vs value and performance. It has 275W on each channel constant. No shell games here, pure clean power sitting, waiting for a signal to be fed. The Emotiva stays cool because of the great design amp layout. Now my Denon also stays cool all the time due to the Pre-amp Mode. All amps OFF. I spent a lot time planning investigating this alone. Took heat into equation, especially when you factor in the Graphics back end (GPU). You will have a real oven when everything is running at the same time. After testing the 6700H, I called Denon regarding the heat / fan issue which did not turn on. I was advised that the fans will not turn on unless AMPS reach a critical state of 160 - 210 degrees Fahrenheit. The reason for the fans not turning on prior, I believe, is to not introduce additional electrical noise, distortion + dust.

Hope that helps anyone...

 

[Mustangtexas]

You get DTS:X-Pro (eventually), of which I can find no reviews/applause anywhere on the web ....

From what I have learned, all that does is add more channels of Atmos (like thirty something)... I do not plan to do that in my 17x22 theater room.

 

[MASKINEN]

Nice! I fired mine up last night and ran a quick Audyssey calibration.

I didn't take time to do measurements with the X4200W prior to pulling it, loud kids!, but the 3700 sounds much better in terms of dynamics and the speakers have really come alive with the new unit, both use XT32. Not very science based, I know, and may be perception bias but I'm pleased so far. Ran it in the Eco-Auto mode at -20 for a few hours and no heat issues.

So from your point of view, the X3700 sounds better than the X4200? Would be interesting having the X4200 tested

 

[bigguyca]

- Omitted -

Emotiva XPA-7 GEN 3 7 amp. I believe is the better implementation cost vs value and performance. It has 275W on each channel constant. No shell games here, pure clean power sitting, waiting for a signal to be fed. The Emotiva stays cool because of the great design amp layout. Now my Denon also stays cool all the time due to the Pre-amp Mode. All amps OFF. I spent a lot time planning investigating this alone. Took heat into equation, especially when you factor in the Graphics back end (GPU). You will have a real oven when everything is running at the same time. After testing the 6700H, I called Denon regarding the heat / fan issue which did not turn on. I was advised that the fans will not turn on unless AMPS reach a critical state of 160 - 210 degrees Fahrenheit. The reason for the fans not turning on prior, I believe, is to not introduce additional electrical noise, distortion + dust.

Hope that helps anyone...

You may want to consider the these measurements when evaluating the XPA Gen 3:

The following are measurements for an XPA-2 Gen 3 from Stereophile. In many cases the XPA-2 didn't meet its specifications with THD+N of over 1% (-40dB) in the high frequencies (Fig. 6), and for noise, as examples. It appears that Emotiva doesn't rate the XPA-2 for IM distortion (Fig's. 9-11), which is a particular unpleasant form of distortion or for channel separation (4th paragraph), but the measurements are also not great. The subjective portion of the review (Via page 1 link at bottom of link below) is unusually negative for Stereophile.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/emotiva-xpa-gen3-two-channel-power-amplifier-measurements

A minor annoyance with the XPA Gen3 series is the wiring of the XLR inputs that is the reverse of adopted, worldwide standards (U.S. EU. Asia, etc.). It's hard to understand this unforced error. On occasion owners still note being tripped-up by this error.

A more interesting question involves the unbalanced (RCA) input impedance of the amplifier at described in paragraph 2 of the measurements. At 9.5k to 14.5k ohms the input impedance to the XPA Gen3 it is unusually low. 30k to 50k ohms would be better and is easily achieved, usually at little added cost, with no increase in noise.

This low RCA input impedance is a potential issue with the RCA outputs from many AVR's. Denon AVR's for example, have what appears to be a less than 30k ohm input impedance to each power amplifier channel in their AVR's. This 30k ohms is the impedance that the output from each channel of the volume control drives, since the output of the volume control directly drives the input to the power amplifier, except for the X4500H (and likely the X4700H) which has an IC opamp buffer (NJM8080) for the L/R channels only. This volume control is a CMOS IC unit with build-in, low power opamp/resister gain circuits that provide the volume control function and drives the output. The specifications are based on the volume control driving 47k ohm impedances, never-the-less this volume control should have no problem driving 30k ohms where the volume control will likely provide rated performance.

When the RCA outputs of the AVR described above are used, the input impedance of the RCA load is effectively in parallel with the input impedance of the power amplifier section, even if the power amplifier section is not connected to a loudspeaker. This means that the volume control output is driving an effective load of much less than 10k ohms. This is approximately 7.2k ohms to 9.8k ohms, which is a heavy load for the outputs of the volume control and will likely not provide optimum performance. Even the basic RCA input impedance of the XPA-3 without the parallel load is lower than desired.

 

[Bello]

Much appreciate your expertise / response on the matter.

That said, I read through the stereofile.com write-up. Following the comments / view from the audio file gallery. Interesting write-up, not all that bad of an amp except for the upper frequency band testing. Also, testing can be subjective to some, not all. I firmly believe, , Emotiva to be is a very good middle ground amp. I did look into other amps, more costly, and higher spec end amps. I believe the best bang for the buck was the Emotiva. I'm not an audio file but I do have a good understanding, education of audio / video and high end technology as a whole. An Audio file will find / problems at any given point / area of audio. Be it pre-amp, post amp and or output sound of a speaker type issue. They all factor into the equation. I believe, I have many of my bases covered to win the game of performance vs $ spent. At the end, I'm only hearing incredible sound w/ my SVS set up. Mind you, I have a full spectrum of music taste, too. I first began testing / listening to the output of X6700H, tested for weeks w/ Denon's internal amps, after connected Emotiva. Incredible sound! Now the X4700H both internal / external. I've now listened to both similar environments. The Emotiva is hands down the best bang for the buck. As to some of the audio file comment's based on the review agreed. I believe, I'm with the subjective crowd of listeners. Basing performance by listening to the sound of music, not just graphs. Although they do make a good argument on paper. But let it be told, my ears rule at the end of the day, period...

All in all, I'm extremely happy with my Emotiva purchase, considering my accomplishments. Reducing high heat w/ increased performance beyond my intentions.

 

[Mustangtexas]

Much appreciate your expertise / response on the matter.

That said, I read through the stereofile.com write-up. Following the comments / view from the audio file gallery. Interesting write-up, not all that bad of an amp except for the upper frequency band testing. Also, testing can be subjective to some, not all. I firmly believe, , Emotiva to be is a very good middle ground amp. I did look into other amps, more costly, and higher spec end amps. I believe the best bang for the buck was the Emotiva. I'm not an audio file but I do have a good understanding, education of audio / video and high end technology as a whole. An Audio file will find / problems at any given point / area of audio. Be it pre-amp, post amp and or output sound of a speaker type issue. They all factor into the equation. I believe, I have many of my bases covered to win the game of performance vs $ spent. At the end, I'm only hearing incredible sound w/ my SVS set up. Mind you, I have a full spectrum of music taste, too. I first began testing / listening to the output of X6700H, tested for weeks w/ Denon's internal amps, after connected Emotiva. Incredible sound! Now the X4700H both internal / external. I've now listened to both similar environments. The Emotiva is hands down the best bang for the buck. As to some of the audio file comment's based on the review agreed. I believe, I'm with the subjective crowd of listeners. Basing performance by listening to the sound of music, not just graphs. Although they do make a good argument on paper. But let it be told, my ears rule at the end of the day, period...

All in all, I'm extremely happy with my Emotiva purchase, considering my accomplishments. Reducing high heat w/ increased performance beyond my intentions.

Did you notice a difference in sound quality between the 6700 and 4700? I am trying to decide between those 2 units right now.

 

[hmt]

Why should there be any diffeence in SQ? Their amplifiers are almost the same, the 6700 just has 11 of them.

 

[Mustangtexas]

Why should there be any diffeence in SQ? Their amplifiers are almost the same, the 6700 just has 11 of them.

The 6700 has a "monolithic" amp design and the 4700 doesn't. I don't know what that means or if it makes an appreciable difference, hence my question about SQ.

 

[hmt]

It did actually maesure a bit (but inaudibly) worse than the 4700. So no, there will be no difference in SQ.

 

[Bello]

Did you notice a difference in sound quality between the 6700 and 4700? I am trying to decide between those 2 units right now.

So let see, based on the SVS Ultra Towers / LCR front stage + surround, Ht elevation for movie play. 2 channel music, internal amp of the 6700H blew away the 4700H on the low end freq band. The 20 watts made all the difference? tightness for my 8 ohm SVS Ultra Towers. The two towers just came alive vs 4700H. Two days later, I added the Emotiva. All bets were off, 4700H shined like the North Star. Serious heart throbbing extreme lows ~ highs. The 6700H performed as well w/ Emotiva. I ran a series of high quality audio CD tracks from Spotify. Melody of BASS, Mids, tweeter sound tests were simply outstanding. One issue I experienced w/ 4700H. Every so often the system front display would hang, freeze. Unable to get around it but to do a system POR. On the other hand, 6700H had a few switching corks but only on my TV display. Seems like the HDMI would get confused if I switch around source. If I went back to the pre-set button #4, Spotify, it was fine after. Or I just turned my TV off/on. I'm sure a patch update should fix that 6700H issue once Denon catches up.

At this point, I'm waiting for a response from Denon as to the 6700H Cap issue. Which they acknowledged to Amirm via email, as to the faulty / out of spec component issue. I called it in to Denon yesterday (A day early) I was told I would receive a response back 24/48 hrs concerning the master recall list, And that I would Not accept a verbal good / bad based on my s/n # . I have requested a with the affected systems.

Lastly- I purchased both systems from Crutchfield. Great company to do business. The two system issues are not there problem but are working with me to resolve w/ new replacements. After receiving my 4700H, I quickly noticed a dirty worn out box and the internal packaging not completely fresh as I had w/ the 6700H. In fact, when I put the boxes side by side. The 6700H which came from Japan looked brand new w/out a blemish. The 4700H which came from Vietnam looked via horse back, tossed around in the jungle by a gorilla. The box was beat-up, semi crushed re taped bottom edges, On the top middle edge crushed through, also middle edge Styrofoam was cracked inside but no noticeable system damage. I complained to Cruchfield about that and questioned them, if the unit was returned / shipped to multiple customers. He said, it was possible but also noted it was graded as New before it came to me. I highly doubt this was a brand new shipment just by the condition of the box. Unless it was shipped from Vietnam via different, cheaper jungle route to the mainland. All of these system outer boxes have system dual label which corresponds with the system origin / S/N.

Question- Anyone one out there with a 4700H, does your box look damaged or worn dirty from a long bad shipment? As I said, 6700H from Japan looked perfect as if I picked it up from Japan.

 

[Mustangtexas]

So let see, based on the SVS Ultra Towers / LCR front stage + surround, Ht elevation for movie play. 2 channel music, internal amp of the 6700H blew away the 4700H on the low end freq band. The 20 watts made all the difference? tightness for my 8 ohm SVS Ultra Towers. The two towers just came alive vs 4700H. Two days later, I added the Emotiva. All bets were off, 4700H shined like the North Star. Serious heart throbbing extreme lows ~ highs. The 6700H performed as well w/ Emotiva. I ran a series of high quality audio CD tracks from Spotify. Melody of BASS, Mids, tweeter sound tests were simply outstanding. One issue I experienced w/ 4700H. Every so often the system front display would hang, freeze. Unable to get around it but to do a system POR. On the other hand, 6700H had a few switching corks but only on my TV display. Seems like the HDMI would get confused if I switch around source. If I went back to the pre-set button #4, Spotify, it was fine after. Or I just turned my TV off/on. I'm sure a patch update should fix that 6700H issue once Denon catches up.

At this point, I'm waiting for a response from Denon as to the 6700H Cap issue. Which they acknowledged to Amirm via email, as to the faulty / out of spec component issue. I called it in to Denon yesterday (A day early) I was told I would receive a response back 24/48 hrs concerning the master recall list, And that I would Not accept a verbal good / bad based on my s/n # . I have requested a with the affected systems.

Lastly- I purchased both systems from Crutchfield. Great company to do business. The two system issues are not there problem but are working with me to resolve w/ new replacements. After receiving my 4700H, I quickly noticed a dirty worn out box and the internal packaging not completely fresh as I had w/ the 6700H. In fact, when I put the boxes side by side. The 6700H which came from Japan looked brand new w/out a blemish. The 4700H which came from Vietnam looked via horse back, tossed around in the jungle by a gorilla. The box was beat-up, semi crushed re taped bottom edges, On the top middle edge crushed through, also middle edge Styrofoam was cracked inside but no noticeable system damage. I complained to Cruchfield about that and questioned them, if the unit was returned / shipped to multiple customers. He said, it was possible but also noted it was graded as New before it came to me. I highly doubt this was a brand new shipment just by the condition of the box. Unless it was shipped from Vietnam via different, cheaper jungle route to the mainland. All of these system outer boxes have system dual label which corresponds with the system origin / S/N.

Question- Anyone one out there with a 4700H, does your box look damaged or worn dirty from a long bad shipment? As I said, 6700H from Japan looked perfect as if I picked it up from Japan.

Jungle route... LOL!

I appreciate the response. I also have SVS Ultra Towers along with an Ultra Center and Ultra Surrounds. Your experience is very helpful. I am planning to run an Outlaw 7000x amp with whichever unit I decide to go with.

 

[Obiden]

What if you don't want to use the pre-outs which most ppl don't?.

 

[Archaea]

Does anyone know the url or process to verify if our x6700h serial number was affected by the lesser tolerance capacitors?

It is now August 6. IIRC that was supposed to be available August 5.

 

[Bello]

@amirm

Do you have a timeline for the re-test on the 6700H? Are we 2- 4- 6 weeks out? Ball park? Tkx

 

[Fillius]

I raised a support request with Denon yesterday about my X6700 regarding the capacitor issue.

Today I have received a response, to say that I'm dissapointed would be an understatement:

Dear Customer,

Thank you for contacting us.

We understand your concern about the capacitors. We would like to inform you that the capacitors have been tested by our DENON sound masters, and it has been confirmed that there are no negative impact on the sound quality.

Your AVC-X6700H is not deemed as faulty and poses no disadvantage from using it.

Should you require further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact us.

Best regards,

Sound United Support

I have replied stating that I'm not happy and asking for clarification. If they refuse to replace the unit despite confirming the issue then I will have to initiate a return with my dealer and I won't be considering a Denon device in future.