Denon AVR-X6700H Home Theater AVR Review

[Anterantz]

[QUOTE = "peng, publicación: 478343, miembro: 7644"] Si tiene el AVR-X4700H, es el botón número 5 en el siguiente diagrama:

View attachment 77070[/CITAR]

If you have the AVR-X4700H, it is button No.5 in the diagram below:

View attachment 77070

My avr is the 8500h but it is true in music that button indicates you on the screen info of the song and the kbs etc. Thank you

 

[Anterantz]

[QUOTE = "peng, publicación: 478359, miembro: 7644"] En el manual del propietario, las especificaciones de SNR del x6700H son:
Las mediciones de Amir fueron para ancho de banda completo, no ponderadas IHF-A que se filtran. Entonces, basado en los 103.76 / 101.66 dB medidos para Ch1 / Ch2 22.5 kHz de ancho de banda a plena potencia, diría que excede la especificación de Denon de 102 dB IHF-A ponderado. Denon no especificó el nivel de salida para 102 dB S / N, por lo que lo más probable es que se base en una salida de potencia nominal completa.

View attachment 77071[/CITAR]
[url = https: //ibb.co/tKxqSrS]

 

[Anterantz]

[QUOTE = "peng, publicación: 478359, miembro: 7644"] En el manual del propietario, las especificaciones de SNR del x6700H son:
Las mediciones de Amir fueron para ancho de banda completo, no ponderadas IHF-A que se filtran. Entonces, basado en los 103.76 / 101.66 dB medidos para Ch1 / Ch2 22.5 kHz de ancho de banda a plena potencia, diría que excede la especificación de Denon de 102 dB IHF-A ponderado. Denon no especificó el nivel de salida para 102 dB S / N, por lo que lo más probable es que se base en una salida de potencia nominal completa.

View attachment 77071[/CITAR]
[url = https: //ibb.co/tKxqSrS]

these are the measurements of the av8805 as it has higher sinad and then measured by amir is worse?

 

[peng]

these are the measurements of the av8805 as it has higher sinad and then measured by amir is worse?

What is your point? The AV8805's specifications say THD for digital DAC is 0.008%, Amir measured 0.0027% THD+N, so it measured better than spec!

SNR also measured better than spec.

 

[Anterantz]

What is your point? The AV8805's specifications say THD for digital DAC is 0.008%, Amir measured 0.0027% THD+N, so it measured better than spec!

SNR also measured better than spec.

So why is it said that it has a sinad worse than a 3600 denon and that the pre / pro do not contribute anything?

 

[peng]

So why is it said that it has a sinad worse than a 3600 denon and that the pre / pro do not contribute anything?

As far as I can remember, I have not seen any post that said "the pre/pro do not contribute anything..." Of course the pre/pro has features that the AVRs don't, such as unbalanced connections for all channels, much better build, more robust power supplies, among other things..

As for SINAD, the AV8805 in fact was worse than the AVR-X3600H, though not that far behind. You can easily see the difference in the chart below:
Not there the AVR-X3600H's measured SINAD at 2 V pre-out was 99 dB vs the AV8805's 92 dB, at the same pre-out level. (It was 4 V for the Marantz because balanced connections were used, that would be equivalent to 2 V if unbalanced connections were used).

If you prefer to compare in THD+N %, it would be 0.001058% vs 0.002728%, comparing using Ch1's numbers in Amir's review/measurements. So the AV8805 has more than 2 times the THD+N, though 0.002728 % is pretty good too in my opinion.

Your AVR-X8500H should measure about the same, within 2-3 dB I would guess, as the AVR-X4700H but nothing can be sure until we see the results so you are going to have to wait.

I hope this answers you questions on the AV8805 vs AVR-X3600H SINAD. It's not really my answer, as the ASR measurements speak for itself, I am only quoting the results from the two reviews.

 

[Anterantz]

As far as I can remember, I have not seen any post that said "the pre/pro do not contribute anything..." Of course the pre/pro has features that the AVRs don't, such as unbalanced connections for all channels, much better build, more robust power supplies, among other things..

As for SINAD, the AV8805 in fact was worse than the AVR-X3600H, though not that far behind. You can easily see the difference in the chart below:
Not there the AVR-X3600H's measured SINAD at 2 V pre-out was 99 dB vs the AV8805's 92 dB, at the same pre-out level. (It was 4 V for the Marantz because balanced connections were used, that would be equivalent to 2 V if unbalanced connections were used).

If you prefer to compare in THD+N %, it would be 0.001058% vs 0.002728%, comparing using Ch1's numbers in Amir's review/measurements. So the AV8805 has more than 2 times the THD+N, though 0.002728 % is pretty good too in my opinion.

Your AVR-X8500H should measure about the same, within 2-3 dB I would guess, as the AVR-X4700H but nothing can be sure until we see the results so you are going to have to wait.

I hope this answers you questions on the AV8805 vs AVR-X3600H SINAD. It's not really my answer, as the ASR measurements speak for itself, I am only quoting the results from the two reviews.

View attachment 77129

I still think that a 3600 vs 8805 can't sound the same and I don't think the user pays 3k for balanced tickets .. greetings peng

 

[bobopich]

I still think that a 3600 vs 8805 can't sound the same and I don't think the user pays 3k for balanced tickets .. greetings peng

No they do not sound the same, 3600 sounds better

 

[DrewMcG]

My box looked new; I bought from Crutchfield 7/1. I did not notice "Vietnam." I actually thought it was manufactured in Malasysia, but this could be wrong . . . . Don't feel like crawling up in the attic to investigate!

 

[Bello]

Ah, OK. Let me test the new unit so that I have that information to communicate with them as well.

H Amirm-

I've had my 4700H for 7 days now. During my internal / external Pre-amp Mode testing. The internal amp did not perform as well as the 6700H beginning w/ my SVS Ultra Towers in 2 channel. It was also all-around warmer / hotter (unexpected) during pre-amp MODE. I believe due to the Op-panel ribbon cable? poor design, sitting across / over the heat sink. Holding heat dissipation down. Ribbon cable / bracket covering 25% of top of the heat sink, see below. In addition to a non mono block type power amp design as in the 6700/8500.

In line w/ (X3700H ~ X4700H) ----------- (X6700H ~ X8500Ha) component configuration similarities.

Question- At what point does an audio signal get affected by heat ~ noise modulation - THD?

I know as it relates to power, molecules vibrate as heat increases. In large system environments, high heat is detrimental. Resulting in system crashes or unexplained errors . Have you made measurements while a system is at or entering critical a heat state? 170-210 degrees. I'm not an audio engineer but have a great understand as it related to signal modulation. Your input / response would be greatly appropriated.

At this point, I know for a fact the X6700H is the more overall, ultimate performer here. But it sickens me to think, I may or may not have off-spec Caps in the Pre-amp stage. If you could please get additional information from your Denon contacts, I seriously will want to know. Denon's second, non-compliant response is unfair / unacceptable in my book. I need answers, I want to keep my 6700H but I'm running of time for a refund return. If you need my S/N, I will send it to you. This X6700H, the box was shipped Out / inside in pristine condition. Unlike the 4700H, as I previously commented, works like and looks like, it was dragged through jungle of Vietnam. Seriously!

I believe someone a while back on ASR reported an incident w/ the rear output posts all bent down? Wasn't that a 4700H?

In comparison w/ the 6700H component layout. I think it has better a more upscale design. From our back and forth discussion regarding heat. I ran the X4700H in Pre-Amp MODE, all amps off but continued to feel a hot area front right (as you stated, full power amps in pre-amp Mode, understood) Previously, I had no comparison when testing my 6700H. Except for what you were reporting. Well, I was baffled as to the less power 4700H being hotter then my 6700H. I played music and then after movies continuous. Mostly mid to high output w/ the 4700H, while in pre-amp MODE exterally w/ my Emotiva. I had my Infinity fans running full. I then swapped systems, cabled my 6700H. I played music high wattage then a couple of hours of 7.1 movie play. To my amazement, 6700H was running COOL, yes COOL! Again, I was baffled. I then turned off my Infinity fans about 1 hour into my 6700H test. Two hours later, in a closed cabinet w/ my Spectrum cable box w/heat sitting just above the 6700H. To my amazement, it was still running COOL, slightly warm w /out a the infinity fan on. This amazed me for several reasons as described, outstanding!

In conclusion- I believe the 6700H is hands down the all around better performer, cost vs performance. That said, I read multiple professional review's as it related to the 6700H. This system review was compared to the the X8500H (understandably) w/ Real sound performance, better internal components, h/w implementation and features vs cost X6700H @ $2,499 and X8500Ha? maybe $4,499? $2K difference w/ similar hardware implementation. If you can swing the cost, a no brainier. I believe, as I mentioned before. The cost savings from the 8500Ha, 6700H ~ Emotiva addition XPA-GEN3 -7 @ full powered amp has been my best buy, implementation. I am seriously impressed w/ the all around sound and performance. And to Include an overall cool running system which adds to my Best buy list!

In an earlier thread, I mentioned corks in the 4700H switching, front display freezing. And now, issues w/ HDMI pass through signal while system is off. No sound at times, had to turn on/off 4700. And or my TV would display 480 letter box resolution. Again, no way around it. Needed to turn the 4700 on/off. I'm not certain if this is related to a software glitch or a H/W issue. And can someone please chime in. Does anyone know if they're running the same software version on all X systems? Difference in versions code between the 6700H / 4700H?

X6700H above

X8500H above. Almost similar H/W component configuration mono block amp layout as the 6700H. The 6700H fraction of the cost win/ win.

 

[jomark911]

Sorry to disappoint you , but there is no comparison between the two .
8500H is a much better design. The confiq is completely different. Apples to oranges.

 

[Anterantz]

Sorry to disappoint you , but there is no comparison between the two .
8500H is a much better design. The confiq is completely different. Apples to oranges.

Exactly the comparison is unfair, there is no color between both avr and their difference of 9kg proves it! All these measurements, data and values that amir does is very good but the opinion of listening to amir in each avr would also help us a lot, I imagine that he will not have the necessary time but spending an afternoon listening to each avr in music / cinema could have a more real appreciation of what sounds good and what sounds better ..

Why can you say guys the 3600/3700 has a sinad, etc .. much better than "x" model but at the moment of truth it is noticeable that this brand or model "x" sounds much better.

There will be people who are guided by data and numbers and others by what they hear and in that, Amir can help a lot!

 

[Bello]

Sorry to disappoint you , but there is no comparison between the two .
8500H is a much better design. The confiq is completely different. Apples to oranges.

No disappointment, I was clearly comparing component level across X systems. No doubt the 8500H is in a class of it's own. In other words, I was categorizing the 3700H 4700H system component design vs 6700H w/ 8500H. Case in point, Internal Mono block power amp construction found in both 6700 / 8500 ONLY. They are Not completely different as you noted. In that one sense, similar. If compared to the 4700, you would be correct with your statement. Maybe- Apples to - The Best Apple juice money can buy.

 

[lashto]

They have these but not atmos.

TrueHD or DTSHD should both be enough to activate most of the DSP functions in an AVR. And a much more interesting test than simple stereo.

 

[Fillius]

In the Owner's manual, the x6700H's SNR specs are:
Amir's measurements were for full bandwidth, not IHF-A weighted that is filtered. So based the measured 103.76/101.66 dB for Ch1/Ch2 22.5 kHz bandwidth @ full power, I would say it exceeds Denon's spec of 102 dB IHF-A weighted. Denon did not specify the output level for the 102 dB S/N so it most likely is based on at full rated power output.

View attachment 77071

Thanks peng, I had been trying to figure out how to compare the measurements, but IHF-A weighted seems to be outdated and overly permissive due to the filtering.

I've still had no reply from Denon since my message on Thursday. I need to make a decision on if I'm keeping the device as soon as possible.

I have been having lots of problems with distorted voices which I've been trying to isolate to find the cause. The sources have mostly been from streaming services e.g. Netflix and Prime, but I have also noticed it on some UHD Blu-Rays.

The distortion is somewhere in the 500Hz - 1KHz region as far as I can tell. But I haven't found a way to measure it yet. I will try tonight to see if REW picks it up with a test sweep, but it's not representative of a voice.

I never had this issue with my Onkyo, but it's too difficult with my setup to swap it all out to re-test to confirm.

 

[peng]

Thanks peng, I had been trying to figure out how to compare the measurements, but IHF-A weighted seems to be outdated and overly permissive due to the filtering.

I've still had no reply from Denon since my message on Thursday. I need to make a decision on if I'm keeping the device as soon as possible.

I have been having lots of problems with distorted voices which I've been trying to isolate to find the cause. The sources have mostly been from streaming services e.g. Netflix and Prime, but I have also noticed it on some UHD Blu-Rays.

The distortion is somewhere in the 500Hz - 1KHz region as far as I can tell. But I haven't found a way to measure it yet. I will try tonight to see if REW picks it up with a test sweep, but it's not representative of a voice.

I never had this issue with my Onkyo, but it's too difficult with my setup to swap it all out to re-test to confirm.

Can you not just return it for a full refund anyway, to error on the safe side?

 

[DrewMcG]

I've had my 4700H for 7 days now. During my internal / external Pre-amp Mode testing. The internal amp did not perform as well as the 6700H beginning w/ my SVS Ultra Towers in 2 channel.

Care to elaborate on "did not perform as well"--most of the rest of your post discusses heat/"design" issues only.

When you say "in two channel," do you mean listing to a stereo source using L/R front speakers only? Or did you create a separate profile with only the L/R speakers (your SVS towers) designated? As "large" or "small" speakers? Audessey 32 correction? Reference or flat?

You do say later in your post: "In an earlier thread, I mentioned corks in the 4700H switching, front display freezing. And now, issues w/ HDMI pass through signal while system is off. No sound at times, had to turn on/off 4700. And or my TV would display 480 letter box resolution. Again, no way around it. Needed to turn the 4700 on/off. I'm not certain if this is related to a software glitch or a H/W issue. And can someone please chime in."

I have not experienced any of these issues with my x4700h (though I'm not exactly sure what "corking" is). In my room, the x4700h runs cool when listening to stereo t.v. or YouTube content upmixed to Auro 2d, even for hours. If I watch a TrueHD/Atmos surround movie, it gets hot.

Do you have Eco mode set to "auto," "on," or "off"? Mine is on "auto."

Assuming your x4700H is not defective (which it might be, based on your description of the package and performance), my guess is that the different heat result you're finding has nothing to do with the arrangement of the heat sinks or ribbon cables. Instead, you may have both systems Eco mode set to "auto," and you're running the x6700H just under the threshold for powering the amps full bore; and the x4700H just over that threshold. This would explain why the x4700H runs hot and the x6700H does not. Just my speculation, but worth checking out.

If you have Eco mode "off" on both units, and ran the same test material/time/volume on both units, that would seem to be a neutral basis for comparison.

I've ordered the $20 pair of USB-powered 120m 5v fans to place on top front of the unit that Peng linked, just for peace of mind. I have a fair amount of space over the unit as it is, and this will draw the hot air from the top of the case up and away from the components, drawing cooler air in from the bottom/sides. It will also have the ancillary advantage of discouraging anyone for putting anything on top of the case, blocking the air vents.

Good luck. If you keep the x6700H (or return and then buy one later to be sure you get the better capacitors), then I'll be jealous of the extra two channels of power/unpowered channels you'll have. Let us know if you ever find a use for DTS:X-Pro, or whether you see a big upside to using those extra channels to power a high center/VOG channel for Auro 3d and/or IMAX: Enhanced. Good luck.

 

[DrewMcG]

Case in point, Internal Mono block power amp construction found in both 6700 / 8500 ONLY

Are you referring to the "monolithic amplifier design" of these two models? I see no reference by Denon to "mono block power amp construction." Please clarify. I'm no engineer, but I think "mono block power amp" is something different.

 

[jomark911]

No disappointment, I was clearly comparing component level across X systems. No doubt the 8500H is in a class of it's own. In other words, I was categorizing the 3700H 4700H system component design vs 6700H w/ 8500H. Case in point, Internal Mono block power amp construction found in both 6700 / 8500 ONLY. They are Not completely different as you noted. In that one sense, similar. If compared to the 4700, you would be correct with your statement. Maybe- Apples to - The Best Apple juice money can buy.

Ok obviously you don't get it. Do you?
Take a further look , on the lay out of both amps , the driver boards and the heatsinks and tellme what you see.
If you see the same plant , ok forget it. Obviously it's not the same thing. You can't oversee this .

 

[Bello]

Care to elaborate on "did not perform as well"--most of the rest of your post discusses heat/"design" issues only.

When you say "in two channel," do you mean listing to a stereo source using L/R front speakers only? Or did you create a separate profile with only the L/R speakers (your SVS towers) designated? As "large" or "small" speakers? Audessey 32 correction? Reference or flat?

You do say later in your post: "In an earlier thread, I mentioned corks in the 4700H switching, front display freezing. And now, issues w/ HDMI pass through signal while system is off. No sound at times, had to turn on/off 4700. And or my TV would display 480 letter box resolution. Again, no way around it. Needed to turn the 4700 on/off. I'm not certain if this is related to a software glitch or a H/W issue. And can someone please chime in."

I have not experienced any of these issues with my x4700h (though I'm not exactly sure what "corking" is). In my room, the x4700h runs cool when listening to stereo t.v. or YouTube content upmixed to Auro 2d, even for hours. If I watch a TrueHD/Atmos surround movie, it gets hot.

Do you have Eco mode set to "auto," "on," or "off"? Mine is on "auto."

Assuming your x4700H is not defective (which it might be, based on your description of the package and performance), my guess is that the different heat result you're finding has nothing to do with the arrangement of the heat sinks or ribbon cables. Instead, you may have both systems Eco mode set to "auto," and you're running the x6700H just under the threshold for powering the amps full bore; and the x4700H just over that threshold. This would explain why the x4700H runs hot and the x6700H does not. Just my speculation, but worth checking out.

If you have Eco mode "off" on both units, and ran the same test material/time/volume on both units, that would seem to be a neutral basis for comparison.

I've ordered the $20 pair of USB-powered 120m 5v fans to place on top front of the unit that Peng linked, just for peace of mind. I have a fair amount of space over the unit as it is, and this will draw the hot air from the top of the case up and away from the components, drawing cooler air in from the bottom/sides. It will also have the ancillary advantage of discouraging anyone for putting anything on top of the case, blocking the air vents.

Good luck. If you keep the x6700H (or return and then buy one later to be sure you get the better capacitors), then I'll be jealous of the extra two channels of power/unpowered channels you'll have. Let us know if you ever find a use for DTS:X-Pro, or whether you see a big upside to using those extra channels to power a high center/VOG channel for Auro 3d and/or IMAX: Enhanced. Good luck.

Based on my findings, and from what Amirm initially mentioned w/ his earlier review of the 4700H. Concerning amp heat, internal fans. At that time, I only had the 6700H to test. I also experienced a hot area (front rt side) while using my internal (9 amp) 3 hour test run. That said, I was not surprised as to high temp area from my research prior to my purchase. During my external amp testing, with all channels set (Emotiva attached) in Pre-amp MODE. The 6700H was just slightly warm with my infinity fans off / cool across the system top. Unlike the 4700H as very warm to hot (mostly in one spot just under the ribbon cable / bracket as seen in my previous pics) this was all while in Pre-amp MODE w/ fans at high. Night and day, completely surprised me. My impression on this, primary differences top view from the system internal pics, amp design mono block layout / heat sink, no bracket ribbon cable over the top of the amps. Compare the internal pics, see the difference between systems. Of cause the 8500H as having the best component, cooling design layout.

Past weeks, I read reviews from different 4700H forums w/ people complaints of source switching, audio video pass through as bit buggy / issues from time to time. The 6700H, I yet to experience a real bug issue, so far 6 weeks. Unless you count the Cap issue which I will resolve in due time.

Someone also mentioned, having the same chip set on all the X systems? I'm beginning to question that response.

Also, what I meant by software corks = bugs

As far as your system, just keep running it hard and long as possible. Switching around sources, utilizing all feature options. And yes, two channel stereo is just LR w/ all others turned off. Ultra's Towers are completely insane at beginning @ 130 watts per (sweet spot starting line? ) or there about. Especially for the low end drivers (2) 8 inch woofers in each Tower. I tested them set to small / large both settings had impressive lows . I did not have my 2000 Pro sub on during 2 channel play / sound test. That is how good the whole 6700H and SVS had proven to be. But of cause, I went a step further (method-to-my-madness) with the Emotiva GEN-3 7 At X2 channel @ 300W per... At X 7 @ 275W per. I really did stretch the Ultra's legs and boy do they stretch! For the love of God, simply incredible!
These past weeks, I have been mesmerized. With Spotify music quality very high, upgrade.

The 6700H stand point, regarding little-to-no heat in Pre-amp Mode, totally impressed me. I physically swapped 4700/6700 systems twice just to see the differences between the two. In power capabilities, sound performance and of cause the high heat situation. Once again, I'm running in Pre-amp MODE. If you're running the systems internal amps, I'd keep the front area as cool as possible.

Well I hope that helps, Good luck!