Denon AVR-X4800H AVR Review

[siggen]

That is a bummer. I was planning on using an external DAC like the SMSL SU 1, then analog in to this AVR, and either use the internal amps, or just use it as a pre+room eq, and add external amps for L+R.

 

[dlaloum]

This is the test I am referring to -

It's a bit academic - threshold of audibility for THD tends to be down around 40db, and for noise, between 60db and 70db (depending on frequency).

So once your noise and distortion are all below 70db the rest is academic.

But yes, it is disappointing that they didn't do better, especially given that they have already demonstrated that they could do better on past very similar models

 

[dave999z]

Sorry it took this long, but I had abdominal surgery when you posted. Just feeling good enough now to have tried.

17" with a sharp bend in the power cord. I'd want at least 17.5-18".

Yikes, hope you're doing ok! And thank you! (I hope measuring the AVR didn't involve moving it at all.) Only if it isn't any trouble, if you could let me know the measurement not including the power cord, so just from front of volume knob to back of speaker terminals, that would be super helpful.

I have a proper right angle power cord I bought for my Outlaw RR2160 that saves a ton of space compared to bending a straight power cord (those things don't like to bend). On my Outlaw, the right angle power cord protrudes about exactly as far as the speaker terminals.

 

[tesseractASR]

Yikes, hope you're doing ok! And thank you! (I hope measuring the AVR didn't involve moving it at all.) Only if it isn't any trouble, if you could let me know the measurement not including the power cord, so just from front of volume knob to back of speaker terminals, that would be super helpful.

I have a proper right angle power cord I bought for my Outlaw RR2160 that saves a ton of space compared to bending a straight power cord (those things don't like to bend). On my Outlaw, the right angle power cord protrudes about exactly as far as the speaker terminals.

Thanks. I returned to work today. No worries, I just popped the tape measure next to it. Eye-balling it, I got between 14.5-14.75" from front volume knob to the end of the speaker terminals.

 

[dave999z]

Thanks. I returned to work today. No worries, I just popped the tape measure next to it. Eye-balling it, I got between 14.5-14.75" from front volume knob to the end of the speaker terminals.

Thank you, I really appreciate it.

Excellent. I do believe it will work in my cabinet.

Incidentally, I don't understand why they put such a huge (deep) volume knob on an already space challenged piece of kit.

 

[Tanquen]

I find that I'm using AURO-3D (upmix) with my Atmos movies. The channels are much more active than with Atmos and I'm hearing more detail in the movies. Is there a way to quantify how much more activity there is in the channels and how much power is being used when playing back the upmix?

Atmos for me has been a bit of a disappointment. I went with four dedicated in ceiling speakers and the vast majority of the time, you're just not going to hear anything. When you're using up mixing, it's sending audio to channels that didn't have any discrete information for it to go to those channels. It also may be playing with the volume levels. There's a number of people that up the volume levels of their atmos speaker so they can hear sounds coming from them. Whatever makes you happy, but those sounds weren't necessarily intended to come from overhead speakers at a volume that makes you turn your head and go wow it's coming from that speaker. How often do you detect a sound from your rear center for rear left and right that jumps out at you, that's not just ambient noise from the movie or the scene? For me it's always been more room filling ambiance kind of thing that I can tell is happening but rarely ever anything discreetly coming from the rear left corner and so on.

Unfortunately, very little of what I watch is atmos encoded and what little is, often isn't encoded very well, and even if it is, there's not that much content directed specifically at the atmos speakers. Like 90% of what you're watching is largely driven by the center and the front left and right. Dolby atmos is just gilding the already gilded Lily of surround sound. I have heard a few things and there's been a few nice effects but that's very rare. More than a few times I felt like they were being used and I thought something was coming from overhead. I've stood on the couch and gotten up next to the speaker and it was just the regular surrounds gave that same sensation, even though nothing was coming from the dedicated in ceiling speakers.

 

[deejaystu]

Factory refurbs were on sale for $1599 direct from Denon until their 20% off code expired yesterday. Best deal I see right now is factory refurbs for $1799 with 3-yr warranty. If I didn't want to try out FW support at some point, I would have picked one up myself at these prices.

Unreal... I can't believe I missed that. I've been waiting for them to go on sale and I had no idea you could apply the 20% off to the refurbs.

 

[rvsixer]

Unfortunately, very little of what I watch is atmos encoded and what little is, often isn't encoded very well, and even if it is, there's not that much content directed specifically at the atmos speakers. Like 90% of what you're watching is largely driven by the center and the front left and right. Dolby atmos is just gilding the already gilded Lily of surround sound. I have heard a few things and there's been a few nice effects but that's very rare. More than a few times I felt like they were being used and I thought something was coming from overhead. I've stood on the couch and gotten up next to the speaker and it was just the regular surrounds gave that same sensation, even though nothing was coming from the dedicated in ceiling speakers.

So, you watch non-Atmos content, or poorly mixed Atmos content, and you get hardly any sound from the overheads...and that makes it an Atmos issue (aka GIGO)? Personally, I'd check your setup (are the overheads low like around 30 deg elevation if so they need at least 45 degrees separation from the surrounds, are you actually decoding actual Atmos content, did you perform output tests and level matching on each channel, etc.). Then play some genuine Dolby Atmos test content.

 

[rvsixer]

The electronics do not care whether a front, surround, ... speaker leads to overload. According to Denon, the impedance must not fall below 3.2ohms. And this is not unusual for a normal 4ohms speaker, if you include the phase. The least that happens is a deterioration of the MTBF. Pre-damage is also not excluded up to an premature failure.

3.2 ohms is not that unusual for an "8 ohm" rated speaker (since the majority of "8 ohm" speakers are actually 4-6 ohms nominal, see time ~21:10-21:42 love the 8 ohm fantasy reference):

 

[EWL5]

So, you watch non-Atmos content, or poorly mixed Atmos content, and you get hardly any sound from the overheads...and that makes it an Atmos issue (aka GIGO)? Personally, I'd check your setup (are the overheads low like around 30 deg elevation if so they need at least 45 degrees separation from the surrounds, are you actually decoding actual Atmos content, did you perform output tests and level matching on each channel, etc.). Then play some genuine Dolby Atmos test content.

Are there any calibration disks similar to Avia in the old days that may have Atmos tracks or could you recommend certain BD's that have great use of Atmos for testing?

 

[rvsixer]

Are there any calibration disks similar to Avia in the old days that may have Atmos tracks or could you recommend certain BD's that have great use of Atmos for testing?

I'd still go with "play some genuine Dolby Atmos test content."

 

[peng]

It goes without saying that the electronics don’t care whether the speakers are front or surround. The point I’m making is that there is not much coming out of the surround speakers as compared to the front. And even less if they are set as small with the crossover at 80 or 100 hz. Turn off your fronts and take a listen.

Keep in mind it may not be possible to convience Mr. Damping factor aka pogo, who seems to get fixated on one point, and... Others have tried...

 

[peng]

But the question remains - is it capable of driving the amp to its peak output of 425W @ 8ohm (58.3V)?

The Denon can output more than 3V for sure. Amir's 1.4 V is not the limit, but at the point before SINAD would start to drop gradually at a higher rate. He insisted to call it the clipping point, I would disagree, and I am sure others would too. It is debatable, to some extent.

 

[PeteXian]

Atmos for me has been a bit of a disappointment. I went with four dedicated in ceiling speakers and the vast majority of the time, you're just not going to hear anything. When you're using up mixing, it's sending audio to channels that didn't have any discrete information for it to go to those channels. It also may be playing with the volume levels. There's a number of people that up the volume levels of their atmos speaker so they can hear sounds coming from them. Whatever makes you happy, but those sounds weren't necessarily intended to come from overhead speakers at a volume that makes you turn your head and go wow it's coming from that speaker. How often do you detect a sound from your rear center for rear left and right that jumps out at you, that's not just ambient noise from the movie or the scene? For me it's always been more room filling ambiance kind of thing that I can tell is happening but rarely ever anything discreetly coming from the rear left corner and so on.

Unfortunately, very little of what I watch is atmos encoded and what little is, often isn't encoded very well, and even if it is, there's not that much content directed specifically at the atmos speakers. Like 90% of what you're watching is largely driven by the center and the front left and right. Dolby atmos is just gilding the already gilded Lily of surround sound. I have heard a few things and there's been a few nice effects but that's very rare. More than a few times I felt like they were being used and I thought something was coming from overhead. I've stood on the couch and gotten up next to the speaker and it was just the regular surrounds gave that same sensation, even though nothing was coming from the dedicated in ceiling speakers.

I hear sound from back surrounds pretty often. More often than atmos. I’m also hearing sounds from my right and left surround more often too. I vocal is also clearer. Height speakers are also active, much more active than with atmos. I feel like I’m finally getting effects and sound from my speakers that I was always expecting. Atmos has been disappointing

 

[Tanquen]

So, you watch non-Atmos content, or poorly mixed Atmos content, and you get hardly any sound from the overheads...and that makes it an Atmos issue (aka GIGO)? Personally, I'd check your setup (are the overheads low like around 30 deg elevation if so they need at least 45 degrees separation from the surrounds, are you actually decoding actual Atmos content, did you perform output tests and level matching on each channel, etc.). Then play some genuine Dolby Atmos test content.

I don't know why that's your takeaway? Maybe if you ignore some of what I said and interpret it in a different way than what was presented. I'm not sure what folks are expecting it to do. Netflix has soap operas with Dolby Atmos so yeah, even in the limited pool of what's available a big chunk of it's not doing anything with.

They put Atmos labeling on cell phones and laptops and upfiring speakers and sound bars that are going to bounce the sound around the room but even doing the research and installing in ceiling dedicated speakers, the vast majority of what you watch is not going to do much with them. That's why you have some people bumping up the volume level of their Atmos speakers because they paid for them and set them up and they want to hear something out of them. But most of the time, it's just going to be ambient noises just like your center rear channel or your left and right rear channel. You need to identical setups with an AB switch and maybe then you might notice your ceiling speakers doing something but even then is it something directional? Mostly it's just a little bits and pieces of ambient sound that you wouldn't be able to distinguish from your rear channels. Even with action movie Blockbusters on a 4K UHD disc with uncompressed HD audio, it's rare to notice anything happening out of the ceiling speakers.

Maybe average home theater environments are just too small to pull off the effects in a more noticeable way. As I said, I have noticed it a few times and actually stopped the movie and played it back a couple of times and stood next to speakers and what not. But it's rare to notice anything happening from the ceiling speakers. Just like I've never actively noticed anything happening from my rear center channel, but if I go stand next to it, there are ambient noises coming out of it on the few films that support it.

It just ends up being like four channel stereo. There's nothing really necessarily directional happening, but it does give the room a little bit more of a fuller sound.

 

[Tanquen]

I hear sound from back surrounds pretty often. More often than atmos. I’m also hearing sounds from my right and left surround more often too. I vocal is also clearer. Height speakers are also active, much more active than with atmos. I feel like I’m finally getting effects and sound from my speakers that I was always expecting. Atmos has been disappointing

Yeah, it's a nice idea but it's just there's not much for folks to really do with it. Most movies and TV shows just want to put the Atmos label on there but it's not like they're spending 20% of the budget, trying to figure out cool effects to come out of the ceiling speakers that dovetail nicely into the story. I definitely notice ambient sounds in the rear channels but it's really rare while watching a film to just feel like something's happening behind you. Like somebody talking or something happening. It's more just ambient environmental noises and music. Again, it has happened like an explosion or a gunshot or something but it's just rare and I think it's just even more so for speakers in the ceiling. They can maybe add to a more fuller enveloped sound environment. There was one Netflix show that did something like that but it can't remember what it was. Some cheesy werewolf Hogwarts combo. There was some ethereal type voice speaking and it came from the speakers in the ceiling. But it's pretty rare and I've often been bamboozled into thinking they were doing something when it was just the normal surrounds.

 

[Descartes]

ATMOS or DTS:X Pro are great for action, sci-fi, horror movies and music concerts.

I also enjoy it with multichannel music but of course the most important are the three front channels.

Other than that all the series with a lot of bla bla barely use any speakers outside of the center channel!

 

[PeteXian]

Yeah, it's a nice idea but it's just there's not much for folks to really do with it. Most movies and TV shows just want to put the Atmos label on there but it's not like they're spending 20% of the budget, trying to figure out cool effects to come out of the ceiling speakers that dovetail nicely into the story. I definitely notice ambient sounds in the rear channels but it's really rare while watching a film to just feel like something's happening behind you. Like somebody talking or something happening. It's more just ambient environmental noises and music. Again, it has happened like an explosion or a gunshot or something but it's just rare and I think it's just even more so for speakers in the ceiling. They can maybe add to a more fuller enveloped sound environment. There was one Netflix show that did something like that but it can't remember what it was. Some cheesy werewolf Hogwarts combo. There was some ethereal type voice speaking and it came from the speakers in the ceiling. But it's pretty rare and I've often been bamboozled into thinking they were doing something when it was just the normal surrounds.

Let me know if you try Auro-3D

 

[NIN]

425W @ 8ohm is around 58V

Given a 26db gain, the input V required for an output of 58V is around 3V
so yes... before buying an AVR it's best to check the power amp matching...

I'm getting a used AVR-X3600 so I think it will do.

 

[deejaystu]

Yeah, it's a nice idea but it's just there's not much for folks to really do with it. Most movies and TV shows just want to put the Atmos label on there but it's not like they're spending 20% of the budget, trying to figure out cool effects to come out of the ceiling speakers that dovetail nicely into the story. I definitely notice ambient sounds in the rear channels but it's really rare while watching a film to just feel like something's happening behind you. Like somebody talking or something happening. It's more just ambient environmental noises and music. Again, it has happened like an explosion or a gunshot or something but it's just rare and I think it's just even more so for speakers in the ceiling. They can maybe add to a more fuller enveloped sound environment. There was one Netflix show that did something like that but it can't remember what it was. Some cheesy werewolf Hogwarts combo. There was some ethereal type voice speaking and it came from the speakers in the ceiling. But it's pretty rare and I've often been bamboozled into thinking they were doing something when it was just the normal surrounds.

This is precisely the reason why I never bothered cutting holes in my ceiling. You can get a beautiful Atmos envelope with a simple 7.x.2 with a majority of the objects running through your 7.x.x surrounds. You'll typically get more active usage of the Atmos layers in action/war movies. Have you tried "All Quiet on the Western Front", or "Tomorrow War", or "Dune"? Try those out and see if it changes your opinion at all. Also maybe something is off in your AVR settings, which room calibration are you using? Have you checked levels, distance (<-- especially this) , compression, etc? Sorry you're not happy with it