Denon AVR-X4700 AVR Review (Updated)

[rccarguy]

If this was ever a concern, the addition of a single stereo power amp, used for the front L & R channels, would
then free the power supply to take over for the other 3. This would be a situation where the full 125 would be available
at all times, if not more.

Three for LCR would be better most demanding channels

 

[Beershaun]

Also, adding a subwoofer and crossing over your speakers around 80hz removes a lot of the power hungry low end from your main AVRs load. I believe audiohaulics tests Denons claim of 80% of rated power in 5 channels.

 

[popej]

I believe audiohaulics tests Denons claim of 80% of rated power in 5 channels.

Rated power is measured with sinusoidal signal. If it is measured at 1kHz, LFE crossover doesn't change anything.

If claim is to reach 80% of rated power when playing music, then it would mean heavy clipped output. Even compressed music maintain peak to average power ratio in range 6-10dB. Which means, that you can safety play music at no more than 10-25% of rated power. Probably not that difficult for an AVR. Cutting off LF doesn't change much, since there is not much power for music below 80Hz.

Maybe they mean, that peaks of reproduced music reach 80% of rated power? I think an AVR can do more, regardless if crossover is activated or not.

 

[Akary]

for a film there are no power problems since the speakers do not work in a fixed way for a concert it is different especially if it uses the central channel since for the fronts I have a dedicated stereo amplifier however my AV amplifier has to make 7 speakers which if used are demanding and the 125 watts per channel I find it tough.

 

[Akary]

this is why in my opinion an amplifier dedicated to the center channel makes sense if the system is also used for concerts

 

[Gringoaudio1]

Where in the menu structure is the option to shut down various amps in the receiver? The manual looks an awful lot like my Marantz manual in the table of contents but I am not sure where to look. If I can find it in the Denon maybe I similarly shut down internal amps on my Marantz SR-7005? I use a SimAudio Celeste for my front LR and have an Outlaw 5000 power amp that I can use for the rest of the channels.

 

[rccarguy]

Where in the menu structure is the option to shut down various amps in the receiver? The manual looks an awful lot like my Marantz manual in the table of contents but I am not sure where to look. If I can find it in the Denon maybe I similarly shut down internal amps on my Marantz SR-7005? I use a SimAudio Celeste for my front LR and have an Outlaw 5000 power amp that I can use for the rest of the channels.

It doesn't shut amps down, it just disconnects the signal from the pre to power section. The amps stay powered, they're just idling.

Denon/Marantz models have a "pre amp mode" as I understand it on models 3600 are newer.

Marantz 7005 is too old, doesn't have it

 

[dlaloum]

And could we consider that since the chances of all channels running at full power at the same time are remote, the full 125 should be available all the time? Also, do newer amp power supplies have much dynamic headroom available?

The issue with all the AVR's in this market segment, is that they cannot provide enough current from the power supplies, to cater for speakers with low impedances....

In the D&M range you need to go up to the AV10 or A1H to get high current power, in the PiOnkIo range the RZ70/LX805/DRX8.4

However, if you are running 8ohm - then the specs can tell you all you need to know about Headroom - they have plenty!

 

[tjcinnamon]

The issue with all the AVR's in this market segment, is that they cannot provide enough current from the power supplies, to cater for speakers with low impedances....

In the D&M range you need to go up to the AV10 or A1H to get high current power, in the PiOnkIo range the RZ70/LX805/DRX8.4

However, if you are running 8ohm - then the specs can tell you all you need to know about Headroom - they have plenty!

True. Quick point of clarification. The AV10 is a pre-pro. You’d need an external amp

 

[dlaloum]

Three for LCR would be better most demanding channels

Although it is not the same AVR or brand... using the baby DRX 3.4 Integra, taking the load of the front L&R off the AVR, allowed the center, surrounds and heights to all work as they should without any constraints or sound degradation... (according to my personal ears...) - and this was with a much lower powered AVR, with substantially lower current power supply. (the speakers drop down the 1.6 ohm and the tweeter is a capacitive load... so they can be quite difficult for many amps)

Having said that, I do run L, C, R on external power....

 

[dlaloum]

True. Quick point of clarification. The AV10 is a pre-pro. You’d need an external amp

Sorry, quite right, I had the matching external power amp in mind!

 

[brettjv]

Update on the 4700 I bought in October 2020...

1. About 4 weeks ago, it started randomly emitting loud popping sounds, then switching to Audyssey setup. Several sources claim this is due to debris in the mic port, which switches calibration on. Other sources claim it is a firmware issue. I tried vacuuming the mic port with a shop vac, blowing it out with canned air, plugging and unplugging the mic several times, performing a reset, and restoring the original factory firmware. None of this had any impact. Many hours wasted.

2. Last week, the AVR started randomly going into protection mode. Sometimes it would work for an hour or two, and sometimes it would go directly into protection. Eventually, it would not turn on at all. I was traveling for work and could not stop the family from using it, so they used it until it was well and truly dead. When I got home, I thought there might be something wrong with a speaker or wiring and disconnected them all and measured nominal resistance of each speaker with its wiring at the banana plugs. All measured > 4.5 Ohms. (These are all easy-to-drive Polk in-wall and in-ceiling speakers plus a Revel C25 center.) With everything unplugged, the unit still will not turn on; the indicator LED just blinks red.

I called Denon Support and found out I had 6 days (!) left on my warranty, and they issued a shipping carton and label to send it to a service center. The agent did not say how long it would take to have it repaired, but he did say, "...quite a long lead time..." This prompted me to buy a new 4800 to have something to use. I found one on sale from an authorized reseller and ordered it. It actually just showed up at my door a few minutes ago. The 4700 will probably end up in the living room when I get it back, assuming it works correctly after repair.

This is all very unfortunate, because I have had Sony and Yamaha AVRs last more than 20 years. Indeed, I purchased a Sony ES model in 2001 and gave it to my son in 2018, where it is still in use. He is also using another Sony I bought in 2008. The living room AVR is a Yamaha from 2003. So far, my record for a Denon is only 3 years. Hopefully the 4800 fares better.

Interesting ... my purchased in October 2020 X4700H developed these EXACT same problems (and tried the same troubleshooting steps to no avail) ... only mine was just days OUT of warranty It did not however quite degrade to the point your did ... sometimes it would still work okay for hours. Other times it'd glitch every two minutes.

Took me a while on the test bench to figure out solid 'steps to reproduce' so I could pass them along to the repair center. I chose United Radio in NY even though they're like the furthest from me, based on quality CS of the person on the phone, a flat $200 to fix (+ parts), and the fact they charge nothing for diagnosis.

It's currently en route. When you received your X4700H back, had they repaired it or just replaced it? And if the former, did they, by chance, inform you as to what exactly they DID to fix it? I'd love to pass that along to United cause, well ... sooner I get it back, and working ... the better.

I discovered that the glitch is most likely to occur quickly if you try to operate the unit immediately after plugging it in.

Also very disappointed in Denon on this one, I have LOTS of pieces of Denon gear from the 90's and 2000's and they all still work flawlessly since the day I bought them.

 

[Everett T]

Interesting ... my purchased in October 2020 X4700H developed these EXACT same problems (and tried the same troubleshooting steps to no avail) ... only mine was just days OUT of warranty It did not however quite degrade to the point your did ... sometimes it would still work okay for hours. Other times it'd glitch every two minutes.

Took me a while on the test bench to figure out solid 'steps to reproduce' so I could pass them along to the repair center. I chose United Radio in NY even though they're like the furthest from me, based on quality CS of the person on the phone, a flat $200 to fix (+ parts), and the fact they charge nothing for diagnosis.

It's currently en route. When you received your X4700H back, had they repaired it or just replaced it? And if the former, did they, by chance, inform you as to what exactly they DID to fix it? I'd love to pass that along to United cause, well ... sooner I get it back, and working ... the better.

I discovered that the glitch is most likely to occur quickly if you try to operate the unit immediately after plugging it in.

Also very disappointed in Denon on this one, I have LOTS of pieces of Denon gear from the 90's and 2000's and they all still work flawlessly since the day I bought them.

As a percentage of sales I'd put their rate of failure at somewhere around a half of a percent, likely less, FWIW.

This is where a good relationship with a brick and mortar store comes in handy as I've known them to loan floor models as to not inconvenience good customers. Back in the early 2000s a dealer loaned me a sub when I was waiting on Velodyne to ship me a replacement amp and I hadn't bought the sub from them, just other stuff...

 

[rvsixer]

As a percentage of sales I'd put their rate of failure at somewhere around a half of a percent, likely less, FWIW.

Supporting data please...

 

[Everett T]

Supporting data please...

Just years involved with manufacturing as you note the"I'd put". Given their warranty and the total number of units shipped, I'd only expect it to be higher with boutique manufacturing or a defective OEM.

 

[Steve Dallas]

Interesting ... my purchased in October 2020 X4700H developed these EXACT same problems (and tried the same troubleshooting steps to no avail) ... only mine was just days OUT of warranty It did not however quite degrade to the point your did ... sometimes it would still work okay for hours. Other times it'd glitch every two minutes.

Took me a while on the test bench to figure out solid 'steps to reproduce' so I could pass them along to the repair center. I chose United Radio in NY even though they're like the furthest from me, based on quality CS of the person on the phone, a flat $200 to fix (+ parts), and the fact they charge nothing for diagnosis.

It's currently en route. When you received your X4700H back, had they repaired it or just replaced it? And if the former, did they, by chance, inform you as to what exactly they DID to fix it? I'd love to pass that along to United cause, well ... sooner I get it back, and working ... the better.

I discovered that the glitch is most likely to occur quickly if you try to operate the unit immediately after plugging it in.

Also very disappointed in Denon on this one, I have LOTS of pieces of Denon gear from the 90's and 2000's and they all still work flawlessly since the day I bought them.

I have not received mine back yet. It will go up for sale immediately when I do.

 

[Sal1950]

This is where a good relationship with a brick and mortar store comes in handy as I've known them to loan floor models as to not inconvenience good customers. Back in the early 2000s a dealer loaned me a sub when I was waiting on Velodyne to ship me a replacement amp and I hadn't bought the sub from them, just other stuff...

How true, that type of "customer service" is the first thing to go with the loss of a real dealer.
In my last 50 years of the of buying and selling gear, that type of close dealer relationship is one that I very much miss.
I've got a lot of those type stories that warm both the heart and wallet when needed.

 

[brettjv]

I have not received mine back yet. It will go up for sale immediately when I do.

Wow, really? How long has it been gone at this point? Do you recall which repair center it was sent to? I sure as heck hope mine's not gone for months.

We are FAR from the only ones I've seen online mention this exact same issue with their X700 line Denon, and even in some other lines. I would hope at this point the techs would be like ... yup, we know what this problem is, and just knock out a fix. Guessing it's a bad board. But a problem might be getting replacement if enough of these are bad in the same way they might not have made enough replacements, and everyone moving forward is SOL cause they're not making more. Could be why yours is held up so long, just a guess.

 

[amper42]

Wow, really? How long has it been gone at this point? Do you recall which repair center it was sent to? I sure as heck hope mine's not gone for months.

We are FAR from the only ones I've seen online mention this exact same issue with their X700 line Denon, and even in some other lines. I would hope at this point the techs would be like ... yup, we know what this problem is, and just knock out a fix. Guessing it's a bad board. But a problem might be getting replacement if enough of these are bad in the same way they might not have made enough replacements, and everyone moving forward is SOL cause they're not making more. Could be why yours is held up so long, just a guess.

Denon is the absolute worst at taking care of warranty service in a timely manner. 2-3 month waits for repair are not uncommon. That's what I experienced too. Not only that but when it came back my pristine case was all scratched up and had new issues. That's when Denon waits another 2-3 weeks to send you a refurb after you call and complain. It's crazy poor service.

 

[brettjv]

Denon is the absolute worst at taking care of warranty service in a timely manner. 2-3 month waits for repair are not uncommon. That's what I experienced too. Not only that but when it came back my pristine case was all scratched up and had new issues. That's when Denon waits another 2-3 weeks to send you a refurb after you call and complain. It's crazy poor service.

Huh. That's a huge drag. Mine is off to an Authorized Service Center (United Radio) and I'm paying for the repair, so maybe I'll have better luck since they'll want their $$$ sooner rather than later, or at least I'd assume. I'll let y'all know how it goes. Thanks for the input