Denon AVR-X4700 AVR Review (Updated)

[red_kk]

Might double check me on this, but Apple TV doesn’t do MQA so you’re still limiting yourself using that versus something like a Bluesound Node 2/2i. I believe Apple will do 24 bit but is limited to 48 kHz too. I use a Node via coax (since analog gets digitized anyway if you’re using Audyssey) and it works very well with Tidal.

Correct i just checked it doesn’t do MQA, limited to 24bit/48Khz however i think one advantage still is that it uses better DAC via the hdmi route.

Also for MQA instead of going via coax(analog) and then AD and DA conversions better bet should be using Nvidia shield for $200. it is much more advanced with plenty of features, good interface and supports 4k and MQA. We can rely on the DACs of Denon to do their job assuming they are good. Please comment if spending more on external streamer with DAC makes sense. Personally i want to keep as few devices as possible.

 

[amper42]

Personally, I like using Audirvana with the Denon 4700. It allows me to play music from Qobuz, Tidal or my CD's all in one application on my computer. It uses DLNA which doesn't use any compression. The raw data from the source is sent directly to the Denon. This reduces the amount of electronics required.

The sound quality is amazing and my computer is set to hold over an hour of Qobuz buffering should the internet go down. The ability to select all my music whether CD or Qobuz from one screen is convenient, album cover art and the song listing are shown on the TV and it's the easiest interface I have used. I can't imagine wanting to use another device for sending music to the Denon 4700.

 

[red_kk]

Personally, I like using Audirvana with the Denon 4700. It allows me to play music from Qobuz, Tidal or my CD's all in one application on my computer. It uses DLNA which doesn't use any compression. The raw data from the source is sent directly to the Denon. This reduces the amount of electronics required.

The sound quality is amazing and my computer is set to hold over an hour of Qobuz buffering should the internet go down. The ability to select all my music whether CD or Qobuz from one screen is convenient, album cover art and the song listing are shown on the TV and it's the easiest interface I have used. I can't imagine wanting to use another device for sending music to the Denon 4700.

Thanks @amper42 This is something that might work really well for me and even preferred. I'm always doing something on my laptop while listening to music.

 

[tparm]

Correct i just checked it doesn’t do MQA, limited to 24bit/48Khz however i think one advantage still is that it uses better DAC via the hdmi route.

Also for MQA instead of going via coax(analog) and then AD and DA conversions better bet should be using Nvidia shield for $200. it is much more advanced with plenty of features, good interface and supports 4k and MQA. We can rely on the DACs of Denon to do their job assuming they are good. Please comment if spending more on external streamer with DAC makes sense. Personally i want to keep as few devices as possible.

Lots of good options here. The DAC in the ATV is irrelevant if using HDMI. And in the source if using coax, the Denon does all the work. It all depends if you choose to unfold MQA since you are using Tidal, that’s why I like the Node as it unfolds MQA and then passes digital signal to Denon so you are using the AKMs. And it’s just easy, especially with Tidal Connect now!

 

[frpr]

Hello

I'm a little lost. I have a Denon 4700 that gives me a lot of satisfaction with my klipsch (RF63, RC62, RS52 and 2 Klipsch atmos).
I have an opportunity to acquire an RC64 center speaker.
I'm not sure that my amp can drive all this.
I know I can put a power amplifier on my front speakers.
On the other hand can I put one with the future rc64.
I understand that it would have a voltage (sinad) problem if you put preouts only on some outputs (you can either put only the front speakers, or all the speakers).

Can you confirm that I can put a power amplifier only with my control unit?
I'm looking for an amplifier in the 400 euros range.
Is it better to put an amplifier on the front speakers?
Which amplifier do you recommend me with my RF63 front speakers and the RC64 center speaker, in these prices and which respect the voltage problem that I confess not to have integrated these notions too much.
What should I check if I buy a power amplifier?
A big thank you to you

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

[peng]

Hello

I'm a little lost. I have a Denon 4700 that gives me a lot of satisfaction with my klipsch (RF63, RC62, RS52 and 2 Klipsch atmos).
I have an opportunity to acquire an RC64 center speaker.
I'm not sure that my amp can drive all this.
I know I can put a power amplifier on my front speakers.
On the other hand can I put one with the future rc64.
I understand that it would have a voltage (sinad) problem if you put preouts only on some outputs (you can either put only the front speakers, or all the speakers).

Can you confirm that I can put a power amplifier only with my control unit?
I'm looking for an amplifier in the 400 euros range.
Is it better to put an amplifier on the front speakers?
Which amplifier do you recommend me with my RF63 front speakers and the RC64 center speaker, in these prices and which respect the voltage problem that I confess not to have integrated these notions too much.
What should I check if I buy a power amplifier?
A big thank you to you

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

It depends on your distance from the speakers and how loud you listen. It is very likely your AVR-X4700H can drive all your speakers without the help of any external amps.

If you want to be sure, you can use an online calculator to get a good estimate of your actual power need. Or if you don't know how to use such calculators, just post your distance from those Klipsch speakers and your desired SPL (sound pressure level) and one of us would likely do the calculations/estimates for you.

Sound pressure level of 85 dB with peaks up to 105 dB would be what you likely hear in a good movie cinema watching actions movies.

Here's a couple of simple calculators, again, if in doubt just tell us your distance and desired SPL.

Peak SPL Calculator (homestead.com)

Crown Audio - Professional Power Amplifiers

Note that the Crown Audio one does not allow for room gain that you typically should get 3 dB or a little more but it only apply to the bass range.

 

[frpr]

Thank you very much Peng
In fact in the first calculator I can't get the sensitivity in!
My front and center speakers are about 4 meters away, the surrounds at 2.5 meters and the atmos at 2 meters and the subwoofer at 5 meters.
My speakers have a sensitivity of 99db.
For the Denon 4700 amplifier I don't know what power to take:
125 watts per channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz to 20 kHz, THD 0.05%, 2 channels on load)
- 165 watts per channel (6 ohms, 1 kHz, THD 0.7%, 2 channels on load)
- 200 watts per channel (6 ohms, 1 kHz, THD 1%, 1 channel on load)

in principle I listen to 60db (volume from 0 to 99db)

I don't know what the desired SPL level is?

Thank you for this precious help

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

 

[peng]

Thank you very much Peng
In fact in the first calculator I can't get the sensitivity in!
My front and center speakers are about 4 meters away, the surrounds at 2.5 meters and the atmos at 2 meters and the subwoofer at 5 meters.
My speakers have a sensitivity of 99db.
For the Denon 4700 amplifier I don't know what power to take:
125 watts per channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz to 20 kHz, THD 0.05%, 2 channels on load)
- 165 watts per channel (6 ohms, 1 kHz, THD 0.7%, 2 channels on load)
- 200 watts per channel (6 ohms, 1 kHz, THD 1%, 1 channel on load)

in principle I listen to 60db (volume from 0 to 99db)

I don't know what the desired SPL level is?

Thank you for this precious help

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

SPL is sound pressure level:

Okay, with the information you provided, I would still make some assumptions as follow:

1) Your speaker specs say sensitivity is 99 dB, but I am going to assume they exaggerated it and that it is actually more like 93 dB.
2) Assume you speakers are placed near a wall (within 2 to 4 feet).

You can see that 125 W could get you 105 dB peak (that is the so called reference level), that should be about as loud as you would hear in a good movie cinema and that's very loud!!

Now, since you said you listened with volume at 60, that means you very likely listen to about -20 dB below reference, that is 85 dB peak. If that's the case then your AVR would be outputting only about 1.25 W during the peaks, and 0.125 W on average, if only one speaker is playing/making sound.

So I would say you absolutely have enough power without any external power amplifiers. If you suddenly want to listen 10 dB louder, the required power would increase 10X.

For every 3 dB increase in SPL, you need 2X the power, it goes as follow:

3 dB SPL increase .................................. 2X power needed
6 dB SPL increase .................................. 4X power needed
9 dB SPL increase .................................. 8X power needed
10 dB SPL increase ................................ 10X power needed

Again, you don't need an amp, but there is nothing wrong getting one either, its just money. The AVR-X4700H's pre-out performed quite well at 2 V or even higher, so it can match well with many good quality power amps.

 

[frpr]

Merci beaucoup

Dans la calculatrice, vous ne mettez qu'un seul haut-parleur? En home cinéma, j'ai 7 enceintes au total et le gain serait inférieur à 21db?
J'ai du mal à comprendre la phrase:
Il semble que l'enceinte centrale RC64 ait besoin d'alimentation pour fonctionner correctement; c'est pour ça que j'étais inquiet mais tu m'as rassuré.

"votre AVR ne produirait qu'environ 1,25 W pendant la crête et 0,125 W en moyenne, si un seul haut-parleur lit / produit du son." C'est très bas!

Je vais regarder ces résultats pour comprendre.

Une dernière question. Si j'ajoute une ampli de puissance uniquement sur l'enceinte centrale, est-ce possible avec le Denon 4700 ou est-ce mieux sur les enceintes avant? Ce n'est pas un problème par rapport à ce qu'Amirm avait rapporté?

 

[red_kk]

I used to connect my apple TV directly to my LG OLED but yesterday I started using Denon X4700H for HDMI switching. I started noticing different video altogether brightness, clarity, color etc can't put a finger on it. My wife also said why is the video quality so good?
Is the Denon doing any processing on the video? I thought AVRs just do the hdmi switching. Whatever it is the video is brilliant and I see nobody is talking about this.

Anyone knows what is going on here?

 

[peng]

Thank you very, very much

In the calculator you put only one speaker? In home cinema, I have 7 speakers in total and the gain would be less than 21db?
I have trouble understanding the sentence:
"your AVR would only produce about 1.25 W during peak and 0.125 W on average, if only one speaker reads / produces sound." That's very low!

I will look at these results to understand.

One last question. If I add a power amp only on the center speaker, is it possible with the Denon 4700 or is it better on the front speakers? This is not a problem compared to what Amirm had reported?

Yes, I entered "1" speaker because that's THX standard. I know you have 7 speakers but they don't all produce sound at the same level at the same time anyway. But yes, in reality you will get higher SPL most of the time because most of the time for a 7 channel system. Just don't assume 21 dB more, but more like 3 dB most of the time and as much as 6 or 7 dB at times.

You understood that sentence perfectly, it could in fact be that low. You are not alone, a lot of people don't realize their system only need a few watts total most of the time and only need more than 100-200 W per channel during the highest peaks. It would also be rare that 5 or 7 channels would be driven to those peaks at the same time. Most people really only need a power amp for the peaks. Again, for 10 dB higher SPL, you need 10X the power and for 20 dB more, you need 100X the power. So if you are listening to say about 70 dB average, when suddenly there is a 20 dB peak from say gun shots, the amp output would have to increase by 100X, just for the output signal to remain clean, unclipped. Like wise, you could be listening to classical music and when the cymbal crashes coincide with say, the bass drum, you may also get a 10-15 dB or higher peak.

About your center speaker question, if its sensitivity is about the same as that for the front left/right speakers, then it would likely need a little more power than the left/right speakers because in general, the center channel do work harder for movies. It is better to have external amp to power not just the front left/right, but also the center speakers. The reason why a lot of people prefer to externally power the left/right is to minimize cost, and the thinking is, the center speakers is not needed for two channel stereo music enjoyment.

 

[frpr]

[QUOTE = "peng, post: 696631, member: 7644"] Oui, j'ai entré "1" haut-parleur parce que c'est la norme THX. Je sais que vous avez 7 haut-parleurs, mais ils ne produisent pas tous un son au même niveau au même moment de toute façon. Mais oui, en réalité, vous obtiendrez un SPL plus élevé la plupart du temps car la plupart du temps pour un système à 7 canaux. Ne supposez pas 21 dB de plus, mais plutôt 3 dB la plupart du temps et jusqu'à 6 ou 7 dB parfois.

Vous avez parfaitement compris cette phrase, elle pourrait en fait être aussi basse. Vous n'êtes pas seul, beaucoup de gens ne réalisent pas que leur système n'a besoin que de quelques watts au total la plupart du temps et n'a besoin que de plus de 100-200 W par canal pendant les pics les plus élevés. Il serait également rare que 5 ou 7 canaux soient dirigés vers ces pics en même temps. La plupart des gens n'ont vraiment besoin d'un ampli de puissance que pour les pics. Encore une fois, pour un SPL supérieur de 10 dB, vous avez besoin de 10 fois la puissance et pour 20 dB de plus, vous avez besoin de 100 fois la puissance. Donc, si vous écoutez environ 70 dB en moyenne, quand soudainement il y a un pic de 20 dB à partir de coups de feu, la sortie de l'ampli devrait augmenter de 100X, juste pour que le signal de sortie reste propre, non écrêté. Comme sage, vous pourriez écouter de la musique classique et quand la cymbale tombe en panne coïncide avec, disons, la grosse caisse,

À propos de votre question sur l'enceinte centrale, si sa sensibilité est à peu près la même que celle des enceintes avant gauche / droite, il faudrait probablement un peu plus de puissance que les enceintes gauche / droite car en général, le canal central travaille plus dur pour les films . Il est préférable d'avoir un ampli externe pour alimenter non seulement les enceintes avant gauche / droite, mais également les enceintes centrales. La raison pour laquelle beaucoup de gens préfèrent alimenter extérieurement la gauche / droite est de minimiser les coûts, et l'idée est que les haut-parleurs centraux ne sont pas nécessaires pour profiter de la musique stéréo à deux canaux. [/ QUOTE]

Merci Peng pour vos réponses précises et pour avoir pris le temps!
Cela m'aide beaucoup.
je te souhaite une bonne soirée

 

[red_kk]

It is better to have external amp to power not just the front left/right, but also the center speakers. The reason why a lot of people prefer to externally power the left/right is to minimize cost, and the thinking is, the center speakers is not needed for two channel stereo music enjoyment.

I was initially looking to buy a Parasound A21 for music but the dealer who is in this business for 20+ years strongly suggested in his own words "Too often people just do the two child and they end up having to buy another answer for the center when they could have just bought a three channel amp, that is the reason they make that amp specifically"
So i went ahead with Parasound A31 instead.

 

[amper42]

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15594

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=15593

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14566

Lots of great options.

 

[tparm]

I was initially looking to buy a Parasound A21 for music but the dealer who is in this business for 20+ years strongly suggested in his own words "Too often people just do the two child and they end up having to buy another answer for the center when they could have just bought a three channel amp, that is the reason they make that amp specifically"
So i went ahead with Parasound A31 instead.

A31 is a really nice amplifier, enjoy.

 

[peng]

I was initially looking to buy a Parasound A21 for music but the dealer who is in this business for 20+ years strongly suggested in his own words "Too often people just do the two child and they end up having to buy another answer for the center when they could have just bought a three channel amp, that is the reason they make that amp specifically"
So i went ahead with Parasound A31 instead.

That's what I would do too. A31 should be more cost effective than A21+ and a monoblock of comparable quality. The only thing though, you should ask Parasound directly about their timing of launching the A31+. It is not that I believe you can hear a difference, but if you can wait to get the latest model(s), why not? Parasound typically would answer such kind of questions quickly, may be within a couple of days.

 

[red_kk]

That's what I would do too. A31 should be more cost effective than A21+ and a monoblock of comparable quality. The only thing though, you should ask Parasound directly about their timing of launching the A31+. It is not that I believe you can hear a difference, but if you can wait to get the latest model(s), why not? Parasound typically would answer such kind of questions quickly, may be within a couple of days.

I didn't think about that but its done already, made all the connections and clearly see a difference in the performance (vs AVR only). it's hard to describe may be in my head but my wife who is not that into music also noticed. in most abstract terms it's like there is a heft to the music at same loudness levels. sort of like a moving truck at 40mph vs a moving car at 40mph. both going at same speed but one has more momentum. sort of like that but subtle, i can't objectively describe it.

 

[tparm]

That's what I would do too. A31 should be more cost effective than A21+ and a monoblock of comparable quality. The only thing though, you should ask Parasound directly about their timing of launching the A31+. It is not that I believe you can hear a difference, but if you can wait to get the latest model(s), why not? Parasound typically would answer such kind of questions quickly, may be within a couple of days.

I’m intrigued. A 32+? Anyone want to buy an X4700? I think I’m buying an X8500. Up in the air on selling or keeping the A 52+. I may add front wides at new place.

 

[peng]

I’m intrigued. A 32+? Anyone want to buy an X4700? I think I’m buying an X8500. Up in the air on selling or keeping the A 52+. I may add front wides at new place.

I highly doubt they would launch a A32+, but likely the A31+ and A51+ but you never know.

Sadly so many heard a difference when there isn't any, such as between the 4700 and 8500 when used well below their limits, or its there but only very subtly.. And unfortunately you cannot expect people to do any sort of DBT or even SBT at home because it is difficult to do, and it is also difficult to have two or more units to compare at home.

 

[tparm]

I highly doubt they would launch a A32+, but likely the A31+ and A51+ but you never know.

Sadly so many heard a difference when there isn't any, such as between the 4700 and 8500 when used well below their limits, or its there but only very subtly.. And unfortunately you cannot expect people to do any sort of DBT or even SBT at home because it is difficult to do, and it is also difficult to have two or more units to compare at home.

I’m not asking for a comparison, I would like to own an X8500. Plus I can use my A 52+ (or a yet to be determined 3CH) with onboard amps as I choose to add additional channels without having to go full pre-amp mode.