Denon AVR-X4700 AVR Review (Updated)

[amper42]

I have not tested the Parasound A31 with the Denon 4700 but page 9 of the manual indicates with the gain controls set at 12 o'clock the gain = 29. That is really close to the Gain offered by the Monolith amps. My guess is it should work well with the Denon 4700.
https://parasound.com/pdfs/A31Manual.pdf

At a price of $3000 for LCR that's a pricey amp. You can get the Monolith 7x200 for $1730 when its in stock. For me that's a better deal. I never use even 60% of the monolith power and it sounds great. Maybe you have a need for 110dB sound levels? Wear ear protection if you push the Parasound A31 harder than the Monolith can go.

 

[red_kk]

Thanks @amper42

Mine is only a 3 channel system and I don't have space in my living room so i may not even go to 5 channel in the future and would never add a subwoofer as my wife doesn't approve it. I got a good deal on the A31 from a local dealer here, its an open-box item nothing wrong with it not even cosmetically. I got it for 2600 including taxes. The main difference is first 10 watts or so is pure class A then it switches to class AB and from what i heard it improves the low volume sound quality.

 

[amper42]

Thanks @amper42

Mine is only a 3 channel system and I don't have space in my living room so i may not even go to 5 channel in the future and would never add a subwoofer as my wife doesn't approve it. I got a good deal on the A31 from a local dealer here, its an open-box item nothing wrong with it not even cosmetically. I got it for 2600 including taxes. The main difference is first 10 watts or so is pure class A then it switches to class AB and from what i heard it improves the low volume sound quality.

If you have it then try it with your Denon 4700. It should work well. If you won't use the internal Denon amps I would recommend setting the Denon 4700 up in Pre-amp mode with amp assign. The Parasound A31 offers a ton of power.

 

[red_kk]

Did i make a mistake with Parasound A31? since
1V input = 28.28V output. (28.28V driving an 8Ω speaker equals 100 watts.)
so i'm barely using half of the available power, wondering if it would limit the performance of my KEF R11's
I got the A31s so I could provide ample power to my KEFs and get most out of the bass

 

[amper42]

Page 9 in the Parasound A31 manual shows gain is adjustable. I would set it at 12 o'clock and you will be fine. I bet you never exceed 80 on the Denon volume dial (without putting on ear protection). lol

 

[red_kk]

so what is the advantage of this amplifier if i'm using only 100W of power I could have used Denon's internal amps as well?
Is it because it can drive lot of current so when the speaker impedance dips to minimum 3.4 ohms (as rated in KEF's user manual) the amplifier can still drive it properly with more current?

Current capacity:
60 amperes peak per channel

 

[red_kk]

I got the amplifier because lot of people on the KEF owners facebook group said i'm way underpowering the R11s with the receivers. Most KEF reference series and R series owners are overpowering them 200+ Watts. I'm not really sure how it all works out but they said it gets best performance in terms of bass, sound stage etc.

 

[jcarys]

Unfortunately I lot of enthusiasts just believe more power is better. You see it on the web all the time, but it's simply not true. I think most web posters have no idea how much power they're actually pushing to their speakers. Since you have the new amp, give it a try. If you don't think it makes any difference (or a small difference) return it or sell it. There are certainly low sensitivity speakers out there that need the extra power, and there were a ton more in the stone age of the 60s, 70s, 80s, etc.

 

[red_kk]

The Denon receiver is also brand new, i just got the delivery of it. i need to hook them up and see the difference with and without the amplifiers. In any case I'm keeping the receiver coz my existing one is a 10yr old receiver. I actually prefer to keep things simple and clean with fewer cables. The parasound is a monster

 

[Grandzoltar]

Since you run those Kef r11 full range with no subwoofer. Ample wattage is a good choice. According to Soundstagenetwork.com measurements they dip to 4 ohm quite often.

 

[red_kk]

Since you run those Kef r11 full range with no subwoofer. Ample wattage is a good choice. According to Soundstagenetwork.com measurements they dip to 4 ohm quite often.

So here are basic Ohms equations
P = I^2 * R
V = I * R

Here Max V = 28V (limited by the gain of the amplifier as Denon can drive max 1V)
for 4ohm load it gives me I = 7 Amps (I=V/R = 28/4=7)

This translates to a power of P = 7^2 * 4 = 196 Watts


So for the worst case speaker impedance of 4ohms and 100% volume level translating to 1V the peak power output from the amplifier is 196 watts?

Does this make sense?

 

[amper42]

You will notice a difference in the Denon 4700 internal amps and the Parasound A31. If you push the KEF R11 the Parasound will offer more bass than the Denon. Also, using Pre-amp mode on the 4700 will offer a benefit as well. I wouldn't worry that you didn't need the Parasound. You will definitely notice a difference and your Denon 4700 receiver will run cooler.

 

[red_kk]

Thanks I initially considered Marantz AV7705 but X4700H scores better in the SINAD score and AV7705 didn't get good recommendations by Amir. I got a good deal on the X4700H from a local dealer, $1360 including taxes brand new factory sealed and full warranty. It also fits better in my TV cabinet.

 

[bigguyca]

How does it pair with Parasound A31 rated this way for inputs:

Input sensitivity:
1 V for 28.28 V (THX Reference)

Input impedance:
47 k Ω unbalanced; 94 k Ω balanced

So here are basic Ohms equations
P = I^2 * R
V = I * R

Here Max V = 28V (limited by the gain of the amplifier as Denon can drive max 1V)
for 4ohm load it gives me I = 7 Amps (I=V/R = 28/4=7)

This translates to a power of P = 7^2 * 4 = 196 Watts


So for the worst case speaker impedance of 4ohms and 100% volume level translating to 1V the peak power output from the amplifier is 196 watts?

Does this make sense?

It's not clear what you are worried about or what you are calculating.

The sensitivity specification indicates that the A31 outputs 28.28V with a 1V input. That is 100W into 8 ohm. This is a gain of 29dB. This is not the sensativity for maximum output, it is just the sensativity for a 100W output into 8 ohm.

With an input of 1.414V the A31 will output 200W into 8 ohm.

With an input of 1.5V the A31 will output 225W into 8 ohm.

The X4700H will easily output over 2V with low noise and distortion. This is the sort of gain structure you want. You want the power amplifier to clip before the preamp.

Into loads that have an impedance of less than 8 ohm you will obtain maximum power output from the A31 with less than 1.5V, which is good.

The gain structure of the X4700H and A31 are a very good match. The gain of the A31's is the same as the gain of the internal power amplifiers in the X4700H. Most consumer gear will "play well" together.

The difference between the two power amplifiers is that the internal amplifiers in the X4700H will distort sooner, and clip at lower levels, especially with multiple channels driven. The internal amplifiers will also have more and more issues as the load (speaker) impedance drops.

Leave any gain control on the A31 at normal gain. Hopefully there is a detent at normal gain. If you move the gain off normal you will likely affect the output of each channel slightly differently even if there are detents. These differences will affect stereo imaging, which is very sensitive to channel imbalance, and any other localization effects.

 

[CMOT]

Curious, I am currently using an old Denon 3311ci as my front end (Apple TV, cable, airplay, blu-ray, radio). It drives the two rear speakers and the center channel. I use the preamp outs to connect to a dedicated amplifier to drive my L/R front speakers. If I am not going to upgrade the number of speakers, etc. is there any reason/advantage to replacing the 3311ci with either the X3700h or the X4700h? Better DAC performance? Anything else?

 

[red_kk]

It's not clear what you are worried about or what you are calculating.
The X4700H will easily output over 2V with low noise and distortion. This is the sort of gain structure you want. You want the power amplifier to clip before the preamp.

Thanks this is good news, after reading the review i though the X4700H will clip after 1.1 V in preamp mode so that is what I was worried about that I would be limiting the output power of the amplifier but if amp clips before the preamp that is great.

 

[Steve Dallas]

Thanks this is good news, after reading the review i though the X4700H will clip after 1.1 V in preamp mode so that is what I was worried about that I would be limiting the output power of the amplifier but if amp clips before the preamp that is great.

Read that part of the measurements again. It clips after 1.4V with the power amps on. In preamp mode, it reaches 2V with 97dB SINAD, which is very respectable for an AVR.

It is CLEANEST at 1.1V in preamp mode, but it is an arc that peaks at 1.1V with no clipping anywhere on the curve. This is better performance than most, if not all, AVPs.

 

[red_kk]

Okay I see it now the blue color arc in HDMI mode ending at 97db sinad whereas the curve with 'amps on' clips at 1.4V
I can sleep peacefully now knowing the marriage between these two would be successful

 

[red_kk]

flight

As Dr. Toole said in one of his Youtube video when he was talking about comparing speakers, he said if you know which one is playing...I don't care...what you think...

Iirc Z1, Z2, and network each has its own 2 channel DAC, the PCM5100A. The two 8 channel DAC, the AK4458 are used for the 13 main channels. You can take my word for it, or ask @bigguyca who may be willing to confirm the same because I believe he has access to some SMs, probably including the X3600H. The last SM I have browsed though was the X4500H, so I can't say the same for the X4700H except going by the posted photos, that there are 3 PCM5100A, so it makes sense to assume it has the same arrangement of one each for Z1, Z2 and network.

You can purchase the SM for the X3600H (a little more than $10 going by memory) to see if for yourself, but I don't think the SMs for the 2020 models are available yet.

Thanks for this insight. This is very useful for me. One of my main intentions behind this AVR purchase was to stream Tidal/Spotify music via Airplay from my iphone but now i'll do it via my Apple TV connected to the AVR through HDMI. Also I learnt Airplay is limited to 16bits so that is not Hi-Res audio

 

[tparm]

flight



Thanks for this insight. This is very useful for me. One of my main intentions behind this AVR purchase was to stream Tidal/Spotify music via Airplay from my iphone but now i'll do it via my Apple TV connected to the AVR through HDMI. Also I learnt Airplay is limited to 16bits so that is not Hi-Res audio

Might double check me on this, but Apple TV doesn’t do MQA so you’re still limiting yourself using that versus something like a Bluesound Node 2/2i. I believe Apple will do 24 bit but is limited to 48 kHz too. I use a Node via coax (since analog gets digitized anyway if you’re using Audyssey) and it works very well with Tidal.