Denon AVR-X3700H AVR Review

[jgiannakas]

Hello all. I have the Denon AVR-X3700H. The AVR is connected to a set of Sonus Faber Lumia III speakers. To improve the sound of playng music I am using the RME ADI-2 DAC to listen to music (Qobuz). It is connected to the aux inputs of the AVR and I am using Pure Direct mode. I am happy with the sound, but I am also wondering if I can improve more. So I am thinking to add a Hypex NC400 based DIY stereo amp to improve sound. I am just wondering if this will make any difference. Or if I should just keep the money and be satisfied with what I have. #hifi-fever

I had contemplated the same thing before I realised I didn’t even use 10% the power of the amp as was listening to regular volume

More power would help at high listening volumes. What db are you listening to on average?

 

[prutsaers]

I had contemplated the same thing before I realised I didn’t even use 10% the power of the amp as was listening to regular volume

More power would help at high listening volumes. What db are you listening to on average?

I believe I am also listening to regular volumes. The AVR is between 40 and 55 on average.

 

[amper42]

I believe I am also listening to regular volumes. The AVR is between 40 and 55 on average.

At a volume level of 50-85 you will notice the Denon 3700 can sound a bit more crisp with an external amp and no hint of distortion. Especially, if you use full pre-out mode. You can do this while in stereo as well as with 7.2.4. Some users setup full pre-out mode for stereo listening with an external high quality amp like the Purifi or NC400 and save that setting as a preset on the 3700. Then they can achieve the higher SINAD available with the internal amps turned off. You can set another Preset that uses the internal amps as well for 7.2.4 mode or another combination. And if you want to use full pre-out mode for 7.2.4 mode you can do that too with a larger set of amps like the Monolith 7X200 and/or the new 8 channel offered by Buckeye amps.

At levels below 50 it's less likely you will notice a major difference with external amps versus using the internal amps. I find movies tend to drive higher volumes especially when the viewer is trying to achieve levels similar to movie theaters. One exception, is if your speakers are difficult to drive. In that case, even at lower volumes an external quality high powered amp can enhance the sound.

 

[jefny]

Finally got my new Denon X3700 that replaced my 11 year old Marantz. I was able to do most of the setup but the setup guide was almost useless. It does not walk you through setup when you use the x3700 as a pre-amp. After fumbling around I figured how to do this manually after completing the cabling between the Denon and my amp. I adjusted the sound levels manually using a sound meter. I will try the Audessey. Sound-wise it is excellent. I ran the Master and Commander bluray and the scene with cannon fire bursting through a wooden ship sounded great.

So far no heat issues. Of course closing down the x3700 amps probably helps as well as my placement on top of a cabinet open all around.

My real problem is setting up a second monitor (an overhead projector). Strangely, it only works when I have both monitors on (a plasma and an overhead projector) and if I close the plasma it also closes the overhead). Only when I physically disconnect the plasma hdmi cable will the over projector work on its own.

Another issue is that of my 3 hdmi inputs (a Tivo, a bluray player and a Roku device) all three will play on monitor 1 (the plasma) but only the bluray on the overhead projector. Maybe it has to do with the video signal as both the Roku and the Tivo are 4K devices while the projector is 1080p.

Still working on it. Any suggestions will be welcome.

JohnF

 

[amper42]

Finally got my new Denon X3700 that replaced my 11 year old Marantz. I was able to do most of the setup but the setup guide was almost useless. It does not walk you through setup when you use the x3700 as a pre-amp. After fumbling around I figured how to do this manually after completing the cabling between the Denon and my amp. I adjusted the sound levels manually using a sound meter. I will try the Audessey. Sound-wise it is excellent. I ran the Master and Commander bluray and the scene with cannon fire bursting through a wooden ship sounded great.

So far no heat issues. Of course closing down the x3700 amps probably helps as well as my placement on top of a cabinet open all around.

My real problem is setting up a second monitor (an overhead projector). Strangely, it only works when I have both monitors on (a plasma and an overhead projector) and if I close the plasma it also closes the overhead). Only when I physically disconnect the plasma hdmi cable will the over projector work on its own.

Another issue is that of my 3 hdmi inputs (a Tivo, a bluray player and a Roku device) all three will play on monitor 1 (the plasma) but only the bluray on the overhead projector. Maybe it has to do with the video signal as both the Roku and the Tivo are 4K devices while the projector is 1080p.

Still working on it. Any suggestions will be welcome.

JohnF

Setting up the Denon 3700 in full pre-out mode is pretty easy. Go to Speakers: Amp Assign and select Assign Mode. Next, push the selector button so Assign Mode is highlighted, scroll to Pre-out mode and select it. In this mode, none of the external speaker terminals will work. The signal travels from the Pre-outs to external amps. In full Pre-out mode the power rails are disconnected. The unit will still get warm but not near as much as when using the internal amps. Energy usage of the Denon 3700 will drop by almost 100W in full pre-out mode.

You will want to continue with Audyssey setup after setting the amp assign function. It will check for phase, distance, levels and EQ. Audyssey will do this better than you could ever do manually. I would not skip this step. Get the $20 Audyssey app for phone or tablet. It provides many functions not available on the receiver like midrange correction, the ability to establish custom curves, select different roll-off settings plus the ability to save Audyssey settings for different configurations. The app makes Audyssey significantly more functional. It's an absolute must have if you're a Denon 3700 owner.

One thing to remember, in full pre-out mode only the function marked on the pre-out connector will work. Zone functions will not as well as A-B Fronts or any other amp assign features that do not align strictly with the printed function of each pre-out connector.

I would setup with a single monitor using the HDMI eArc port. After that is completed and you are happy with the sound you could play with adding a second monitor. That would be a totally separate issue from the initial setup of Audyssey. Normally, there is only one monitor in a setup. If you want to simplify your life stick with that. If not, you may have to dive into the input sections of the Denon 3700 manual. If both the HDMI MONITOR 1 and HDMI MONITOR 2 connectors are connected and “Resolution” is set to “Auto”, the signals are output with a resolution that is compatible with both TVs. As you can see this could degrade the resolution if both monitors are not identical. Have fun!

 

[jefny]

Amper 42
Thanks for your detailed response. I was able to go to amp assign to pre-amp and my amp is driving all speakers. The Denon X3700 also runs cooler. I will Audyssey next.

As far as video goes, at present I am simply pulling the monitor 1 hdmi cable out and my overhead projector takes a good signal from my bluray player and works fine. I will play with it further and perhaps call Denon.

JohnF

 

[soberego]

Hi Folks,

It’s me again.
Quick question on Bluetooth and our favorite receiver.
I used to have a Sony DH590 with which the pairing was quite simple : pair, play, listen.
With the 3700 however, it seem a bit more complicated, the Denon app takes over and there is a bit of a lag when playing through Bluetooth, is it because of Heos ?

Additionally, the Amazon app on my phone seems to cut the play back when I close it. (Kinda weird)

And finally it happened a couple of time that the sound went rogue, I pushed the volume up or down a notch and it went climbing on its own like a semi automatic car window.

Long story short :
Is there a way to use Bluetooth without the Heos layer of the receiver ?
Is the Denon app known to be quite unstable ?
Finally, is the volume +/- feature supposed to be this delicate ?

 

[jefny]

Amper 42
Thanks for your detailed response. I was able to go to amp assign to pre-amp and my amp is driving all speakers. The Denon X3700 also runs cooler. I will Audyssey next.

As far as video goes, at present I am simply pulling the monitor 1 hdmi cable out and my overhead projector takes a good signal from my bluray player and works fine. I will play with it further and perhaps call Denon.

JohnF

Today I ran Audyssey and the process was fairly obvious and smooth. I actually used the guided setup. The most complicated part were the 2 subwoofers that at first were considered too loud and had to be lowered after I then went through re running Audyssey for several different positions. I plan to play a movie to hear the results. I have been reading from other posters that the center speaker might have top be ramped up a bit and I remember some hint of improving voices, I will look at the Audyssey app. After spending for the receiver $20 is a non-issue.

I did get a response from Denon concerning the failure of the 2nd monitor hdmi output (an overhead projector) that only seems to work for the bluray player but not the Roku or Tivo. All three work fine with monitor 1. One suggestion by Denon was to use different hdmi inputs. Denon also suggested some specific changes for the hdmi output signal. The manual did mention that when running two monitors, they will show video at the lower resolution of the two (in my case 720p for the plasma and 1080p for the overhead projector). I tried to unplug the plasma while running the projector (monitor 2) as another post indicated that it should then be 1080.

I plan to add a CD player and a turntable. I also have to set up bluetooth and the radio.
JohnF

 

[peng]

Today I ran Audyssey and the process was fairly obvious and smooth. I actually used the guided setup. The most complicated part were the 2 subwoofers that at first were considered too loud and had to be lowered after I then went through re running Audyssey for several different positions. I plan to play a movie to hear the results. I have been reading from other posters that the center speaker might have top be ramped up a bit and I remember some hint of improving voices, I will look at the Audyssey app. After spending for the receiver $20 is a non-issue.

I did get a response from Denon concerning the failure of the 2nd monitor hdmi output (an overhead projector) that only seems to work for the bluray player but not the Roku or Tivo. All three work fine with monitor 1. One suggestion by Denon was to use different hdmi inputs. Denon also suggested some specific changes for the hdmi output signal. The manual did mention that when running two monitors, they will show video at the lower resolution of the two (in my case 720p for the plasma and 1080p for the overhead projector). I tried to unplug the plasma while running the projector (monitor 2) as another post indicated that it should then be 1080.

I plan to add a CD player and a turntable. I also have to set up bluetooth and the radio.
JohnF

If you are going to use the $20 app, you may want to download Ratbuddyssey (free) as it will let you edit the target curve much easier and get better results than to draw it with your fingers, mouse of whatever. There are also some good tips in the linked site below, within that there are also links to other useful information. They also claimed to have an Excel based tool for editing, costs $10 iirc, but I am not sure if it is necessary if you can get Ratbuddyssey free.

This first linked article touched on the MRC disable/enable feature and explained what Audyssey's MRC is really about, there has been a major misconception/hearsay on the internet forums where people expressed their hate of MRC and thought this feature is/was responsible to artificially put a dip at 2000 Hz when in fact it is not the case. I use the link that highlighted MRC because I am sure you know most people will tell you to disable this feature right away when you use the App, but in my opinion, people should understand what the feature is actually about first. Again, please click on the many links within this article to other useful tips.

Audyssey Midrange Compensation – On or Off? – Denon and Marantz Receivers

Should you turn Midrange Compensation on or off? How do you know if your speakers need it? Let’s find out!

simplehomecinema.com

 

[Vict0r]

I feel like such a Plebeian with my x2400h.

 

[amper42]

If you are going to use the $20 app, you may want to download Ratbuddyssey (free) as it will let you edit the target curve much easier and get better results than to draw it with your fingers, mouse of whatever. There are also some good tips in the linked site below, within that there are also links to other useful information. They also claimed to have an Excel based tool for editing, costs $10 iirc, but I am not sure if it is necessary if you can get Ratbuddyssey free.

This first linked article touched on the MRC disable/enable feature and explained what Audyssey's MRC is really about, there has been a major misconception/hearsay on the internet forums where people expressed their hate of MRC and thought this feature is/was responsible to artificially put a dip at 2000 Hz when in fact it is not the case. I use the link that highlighted MRC because I am sure you know most people will tell you to disable this feature right away when you use the App, but in my opinion, people should understand what the feature is actually about first. Again, please click on the many links within this article to other useful tips.

Audyssey Midrange Compensation – On or Off? – Denon and Marantz Receivers

Should you turn Midrange Compensation on or off? How do you know if your speakers need it? Let’s find out!

simplehomecinema.com

By itself, the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app will do a great job of getting Audyssey setup on your Denon 3700. I run it from an iPad but you can use other phone/tablets as well. I always turn off midrange compensation as I don't buy speakers that have crossovers built to dip in the midrange by design. And I'm looking for a flat FR response that doesn't intentionally color the sound. Some people like the BBC dip but I take it out with speakers designed specifically for a flat response. You can see the BBC dip in the default Audyssey FR within the app. It's easy to remove. Personally, I think Denon should turn off Midrange compensation by default but instead you have to take it off if you don't want the BBC dip pushed to your speakers.

While Ratbuddyssey is a great extra tool, it only works with a PC. As I use a Mac that doesn't run Windows it's easier for me to simply use the features available within the app on an iPad. I wouldn't recommend Ratbuddy to a new Denon owner until they have fully mastered what the Audyssey app can do - and they still want more control in building a custom FR. What I'm trying to say is feel completely comfortable with the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app before trying to add another layer of learning onto your plate with Ratbuddy.

 

[peng]

By itself, the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app will do a great job of getting Audyssey setup on your Denon 3700. I run it from an iPad but you can use other phone/tablets as well. I always turn off midrange compensation as I don't buy speakers that have crossovers built to dip in the midrange by design. And I'm looking for a flat FR response that doesn't intentionally color the sound. Some people like the BBC dip but I take it out with speakers designed specifically for a flat response. You can see the BBC dip in the default Audyssey FR within the app. It's easy to remove. Personally, I think Denon should turn off Midrange compensation by default but instead you have to take it off if you don't want the BBC dip pushed to your speakers.

While Ratbuddyssey is a great extra tool, it only works with a PC. As I use a Mac that doesn't run Windows it's easier for me to simply use the features available within the app on an iPad. I wouldn't recommend Ratbuddy to a new Denon owner until they have fully mastered what the Audyssey app can do - and they still want more control in building a custom FR. What I'm trying to say is feel completely comfortable with the Audyssey MultEQ Editor app before trying to add another layer of learning onto your plate with Ratbuddy.

It seems to me you are among those who misunderstood Audyssey's MRC feature and interpreted the dip shown in the App incorrectly.

If your speakers are not designed with the dip, then you won't get the dip with MRC enabled, unless it wasn't designed or implemented properly, or your room has something to do with it.

Audssey 's Multeq X video and the article I linked explained this clearly. You can also plot some FR graphs, to see the effects.

Many users have the misconception because Audyssey never bothered explaining it clearly until recently. The dip shown in the app that you mentioned, is also misleading, though I am sure it wasn't their intention to mislead.
.

 

[amper42]

It seems to me you are among those who misunderstood Audyssey's MRC feature and interpreted the dip shown in the App incorrectly.

If your speakers are not designed with the dip, then you won't get the dip with MRC enabled, unless it wasn't designed or implemented properly, or your room has something to do with it.

Audssey 's Multeq X video and the article I linked explained this clearly. You can also plot some FR graphs, to see the effects.

Many users have the misconception because Audyssey never bothered explaining it clearly until recently. The dip shown in the app that you mentioned, is also misleading, though I am sure it wasn't their intention to mislead.
.

I just read the article you quoted and it doesn't say Midrange compensation should be ignored or that you shouldn't turn it off.

The claim that Audyssey Midrange compensation doesn't do anything in some cases and that the detailed Audyssey FR response in the app is incorrect certainly seems questionable. If you post REW charts showing with and without MRC and no change occurs with various speaker designs that would certainly indicate the Audyssey App is intentionally reporting incorrect FR data. If Denon can't correctly show how the feature works in the app I would seriously doubt they can implement it correctly. Either way, I would prefer the MRC feature turned off unless it sounded better to my ear to leave it on. Your mileage may vary.

 

[peng]

I just read the article you quoted and it doesn't say Midrange compensation should be ignored or that you shouldn't turn it off.

No, of course it doesn't say that, and I have never said such a thing neither so I don't know where you got it from. The article simply tried to suggest you should probably enable or disable MRC by first determining if your speaker's FR has a dip (presumable by design) at around 2000 Hz. If it has that dip (by design, not imposed by Audyssey), then you should try leaving it there, by enabling the MRC feature, that would allow Audyssey to not EQ it out. If you EQ it out by disabling MRC, then you would be going against the original design, but if it sounds better that way then by all means disable MRC so that Audyssey would try to flatten it. So the author is only recommending you to not automatically set MRC to be disabled, but to investigate first if your speaker has the dip there by design and if so, try to listen with and without the dip before making a decision. That's just his recommendation and it is consistent with what Audyssey and Denon suggested in that video I mentioned.

The claim that Audyssey Midrange compensation doesn't do anything in some cases and that the detailed Audyssey FR response in the app is incorrect certainly seems questionable. If you post REW charts showing with and without MRC and no change occurs with various speaker designs that would certainly indicate the Audyssey App is intentionally reporting incorrect FR data. If Denon can't correctly show how the feature works in the app I would seriously doubt they can implement it correctly. Either way, I would prefer the MRC feature turned off unless it sounded better to my ear to leave it on. Your mileage may vary.

No offence, you are still confused on this topic, and me too actually, along with many Audyssey users for years, until recently..

Let me try and make it clearer below in point form:

1) When you use the app, you can see the before and after, though we both know that the "after" graphs are not actual, but just a predicted FR after the calibration.

2) On the "after" one, again because it is a predicted FR only, so if you have MRC enabled it will show a dip at 2,000 Hz but it is not Audyssey that would cause the dip. In other words, if you speakers are not designed to have MRC, aka BBC dip, then you won't see a dip at 2000 Hz in your actual FR graph whether you have MRC enabled or not.

3) If your speaker is in fact designed to have the BBC dip, then if you have MRC enabled, Audyssey will not EQ it to flat, that is, it will just leave it there untouched. If you have MRC disabled, then Audyssey will EQ that dip to flat as it would EQ the range you selected to be EQ.

So the bottom line is, Audyssey does not create the BBC dip for you, it is the manufacturer's design to have the dip or not. If not, then Audyssey (with MRC enabled) will leave that dip alone without EQ it to flat, and if you have MRC disabled then Audyssey will EQ it flat along with everything within the frequency range you selected to be EQ.

I says the App's "after" graph is misleading, and obviously you were misled to think that with MRC enabled, Audyssey would put a dip there, when in fact all the graph meant to show is that when MRC is enabled, it won't EQ it to flat, so the target will then obviously show a dip but again, whether the actual FR graph will have a dip or not will depend on the speaker and the room. Audyssey simply won't EQ out the dip if it is there and if not then you won't have the dip even with MRC enabled.

To recap one more time, remember, the default roll off 1 don't start until about 5000-6000 Hz, so Audyssey will try to EQ everything from 20 Hz to the roll off point to flat, unless you enable MRC, in that case it will not EQ around the 2000 Hz point. That is not the same as "EQ in" a dip at 2000 Hz that a lot of people thought it was!! It simply will not EQ out a dip that the speaker and the room themselves created, when MRC is enabled. That's the only point I referred to earlier as a misconception, or misunderstanding of the MRC feature.

I have tons of REW graphs that confirm the MRC feature does work as described above. If you use REW you can easily find out for yourself.

In another thread I posted the Audyssey MulEQ X video with the time mark where Jeff (Audyssey) and the Denon rep explain the MRC thing in much greater details.

For you, I search and found it again to save you time.

Please fast forward to about 54:50 and watch it for a better understanding of how it works. I think that part lasts about 6 minutes.

 

[Felks32]

It’s worth upgrading just for audussey xt32 in my view. It will help out sort out room issues massively compared to I think the plain XT that yours has (?), especially with a sub involved.

I ended up grabbing an X3700H on Saturday, I was shocked to find one in stock somewhere so I grabbed it.

Thanks to all that responded to my question.

Got it set up with the Audyssey XT32, however I notice that it set my speakers (Paradigm Premier 700F's) to Large and the crossover at 40hz. I had read that people recommend going into the manual settings afterwards and setting the speakers to small, and the crossover to 80hz - is this correct?

 

[GalZohar]

I ended up grabbing an X3700H on Saturday, I was shocked to find one in stock somewhere so I grabbed it.

Thanks to all that responded to my question.

Got it set up with the Audyssey XT32, however I notice that it set my speakers (Paradigm Premier 700F's) to Large and the crossover at 40hz. I had read that people recommend going into the manual settings afterwards and setting the speakers to small, and the crossover to 80hz - is this correct?

In 98% of the cases - Yes.

 

[jefny]

Today I ran Audyssey and the process was fairly obvious and smooth. I actually used the guided setup. The most complicated part were the 2 subwoofers that at first were considered too loud and had to be lowered after I then went through re running Audyssey for several different positions. I plan to play a movie to hear the results. I have been reading from other posters that the center speaker might have top be ramped up a bit and I remember some hint of improving voices, I will look at the Audyssey app. After spending for the receiver $20 is a non-issue.

I did get a response from Denon concerning the failure of the 2nd monitor hdmi output (an overhead projector) that only seems to work for the bluray player but not the Roku or Tivo. All three work fine with monitor 1. One suggestion by Denon was to use different hdmi inputs. Denon also suggested some specific changes for the hdmi output signal. The manual did mention that when running two monitors, they will show video at the lower resolution of the two (in my case 720p for the plasma and 1080p for the overhead projector). I tried to unplug the plasma while running the projector (monitor 2) as another post indicated that it should then be 1080.

I plan to add a CD player and a turntable. I also have to set up bluetooth and the radio.
JohnF

I listened to my first movie after the initial Audyssey calibration (Bladerunner 2049) and what a noticeable improvement. I also set up the cd function using stereo mode and I am also impressed with the sound. I am mostly a fan of classical music.

I have been following the thread with comments by Peng and Amper42 and have to admit a lot is over my head. The discussion on midrange compensation is unclear to me. I should mention that my front LR speakers are Gold Reference Towers that have no midrange speakers (tweeter and 2 woofers) so I wonder how it affects midrange compensation.

My other question is how do the graphs relate to real sound. To an extent what is pleasing to the ear is certainly a subjective experience All this is a learning experience and thanks to the posters for sharing their thoughts and ideas.

JohnF.

 

[GalZohar]

The connection between graphs and good sound is complicated... Flatter is often better (at least if you use dynamic eq) but it seems to also depend how the flatness was achieved.

Midrange compensation is for the supposedly many speakers that have an issue at a 2KHz woofer-tweeter crossover. You can see if your speaker has a dip at 2KHz in the "before" graph and if it does then try listening with and without midrange compensation. Otherwise just disable it. Also consider trying disabling all corrections above various frequencies and see if that improves anything. In many cases the high frequency corrections are not beneficial.

 

[jgiannakas]

I listened to my first movie after the initial Audyssey calibration (Bladerunner 2049) and what a noticeable improvement. I also set up the cd function using stereo mode and I am also impressed with the sound. I am mostly a fan of classical music.

I have been following the thread with comments by Peng and Amper42 and have to admit a lot is over my head. The discussion on midrange compensation is unclear to me. I should mention that my front LR speakers are Gold Reference Towers that have no midrange speakers (tweeter and 2 woofers) so I wonder how it affects midrange compensation.

My other question is how do the graphs relate to real sound. To an extent what is pleasing to the ear is certainly a subjective experience All this is a learning experience and thanks to the posters for sharing their thoughts and ideas.

JohnF.

If your speakers are decent, simply download the audissey app and set the frequency correction limit to 300-400hz. Anything above that would be your speakers without correction.

Why? Because the biggest issues that the calibration is trying to fix are in the base region and that is where you get the most benefit. Midrange and treble, I’ve found that audysey made my R3s sound worse

 

[soberego]

If your speakers are decent, simply download the audissey app and set the frequency correction limit to 300-400hz. Anything above that would be your speakers without correction.

Why? Because the biggest issues that the calibration is trying to fix are in the base region and that is where you get the most benefit. Midrange and treble, I’ve found that audysey made my R3s sound worse

Hi,

I have the app and ran a calibration through it but I cannot find the way to set a frequency correction limit. Any pointers ?

Kind regards,