Denon AVR-X3700H AVR Review

[bigguyca]

@Ekkoville Even at 2 volts you are only looking at .02 THD+N. At 1.5 volts THD+N is only about .003. In either case neither of you guys will have any problem with the preout voltage. Also with the 3700 you can turn off the amplifiers so the sinad at even 2 volts plenty high.

@Chinaski You typically want input impedance ten times higher than the output impedance.

The only way to turnoff the power amplifiers in the X3700H is to turn off the entire unit.

 

[Brambo67]

Try running without the A320's and see if it resolves the issue. That's the only sure test.
If the issue is a damaged Denon 3700 then any upgrade to a working machine will work. I prefer the Auro 3D on the Denon 4700 but its power is not all that much different than the Denon 3700. I also like the dual display on the Denon 4700 and the front HDMI port. Those items may not be worth it for others.

Thnx. I did already run without the A320’s; same result. In a loud scene during the Top Gun Maverick trailer it occurred again.

 

[Brambo67]

It sounds to me like something about the way the speakers are wired internally is a problem. Perhaps the Onkyo had a circuit to deal with it and the Denon does not. Hard to say, so I'm speculating.

When using the Onkyo the A320’s weren’t part of the setup as the Onkyo did not support Atmos.

 

[Brambo67]

The remote is a lot better, and if you do a lot of laptop-in or REW measurements, the front HDMI is great to have.

I didn’t know the remotes are different. The front HDMI I didn’t miss so wouldn’t be a decisive reason to step up.

 

[Brambo67]

Why do you have the marantz for the front channels?

How are you connecting between the denon and the marantz? And then to the speakers

I have the Marantz for two reasons; it leaves more power for the other channels and I play stereo in Pure Direct via the two floor standing Jamo’s. In this way this is more ‘HiFi’. During full Atmos setup while playing movies the whole configuration is playing much more dynamical.
The Marantz is connected via the Denon’s front pre amp out. The Marantz is switched on via a trigger cable. Works perfectly. The speakers are connected of course with the Marantz.

 

[bigguyca]

Thanks @peng for the links and explanation.

So if I understood all this, then at Volume 70, I need 46W per channel, which translates to Vin=SQRT(46.24W*4Ohm)/Vgain = ~0.5V
Volume up to 79 => 46.24*2^3 => 1.36Vin
That seems to be still before the clipping of 1.4 with AMPS on. Happy camper? I think I am.

Is there going to be any change if i turn on 2 more speakers (surround channels)?

It isn't clear how you are going to use the values you are calculating. FYI:

Amir found that the X3700H clipped at 168W output with two channels driven into a 4 ohm load. The preamp output under these conditions is .92V RMS.

As more power amplifier channels are driven to higher power outputs the rail voltage to all the power amplifier channels will drop. This means that the power amplifiers will clip at lower and lower output voltages. This in turn means that the point where preamp performance drops sharply will decline when the unit is heavily loaded.

As another data point:

If the unit is run in ECO mode, the resultant drop in rail voltage and power amplifier clipping level means that the point where preamp distortion begins to increase sharply is between .5V and .6V output when the unit is lightly loaded.

 

[Chromatischism]

I have the Marantz for two reasons; it leaves more power for the other channels and I play stereo in Pure Direct via the two floor standing Jamo’s. In this way this is more ‘HiFi’. During full Atmos setup while playing movies the whole configuration is playing much more dynamical.
The Marantz is connected via the Denon’s front pre amp out. The Marantz is switched on via a trigger cable. Works perfectly. The speakers are connected of course with the Marantz.

I think some aspects of "HiFi" are misguided, but that's another topic

(High fidelity, meaning truthful to the source, will never be achieved without room EQ and careful subwoofer placement)

 

[Brambo67]

I think some aspects of "HiFi" are misguided, but that's another topic

(High fidelity, meaning truthful to the source, will never be achieved without room EQ and careful subwoofer placement)

Hence the '...' ;-)

 

[LunaTempesta]

Is this one of the better all round AVRs for the price point currently?

Ended up upgrading my tiny 43inch fhd TV due to an early black friday sale. Checked before hand if my old yamaha supported 4k pass through and it did. Not taking into consideration that the new LG c1 ofc plays HDR content and my reciever doesn't know what to do with that.

So in the market for an AVR upgrade now as well. I was looking into the new onkyo with dirac but it's not available in the Netherlands to begin with. Which leaves me with this denon or possibly a yamaha rx a2a.

Use case is nvidia shield tv for plex streaming and a lot of music play back. Knowing anything I get will be an upgrade I still want to make sure I get something worth the investment.

 

[notabenem]

It isn't clear how you are going to use the values you are calculating. FYI:

Amir found that the X3700H clipped at 168W output with two channels driven into a 4 ohm load. The preamp output under these conditions is .92V RMS.

As more power amplifier channels are driven to higher power outputs the rail voltage to all the power amplifier channels will drop. This means that the power amplifiers will clip at lower and lower output voltages. This in turn means that the point where preamp performance drops sharply will decline when the unit is heavily loaded.

As another data point:

If the unit is run in ECO mode, the resultant drop in rail voltage and power amplifier clipping level means that the point where preamp distortion begins to increase sharply is between .5V and .6V output when the unit is lightly loaded.

So you're saying that it's not the amps clipping, but the power supply getting overloaded? Be it 2 channels at 168W (8ohm) or 4 channels at .. 105W for 1%THD? Or combination of both at different times?

 

[Guenselmann]

Is this one of the better all round AVRs for the price point currently?

Ended up upgrading my tiny 43inch fhd TV due to an early black friday sale. Checked before hand if my old yamaha supported 4k pass through and it did. Not taking into consideration that the new LG c1 ofc plays HDR content and my reciever doesn't know what to do with that.

So in the market for an AVR upgrade now as well. I was looking into the new onkyo with dirac but it's not available in the Netherlands to begin with. Which leaves me with this denon or possibly a yamaha rx a2a.

Use case is nvidia shield tv for plex streaming and a lot of music play back. Knowing anything I get will be an upgrade I still want to make sure I get something worth the investment.

Using this AVR with an LG C1 without issue. Since yesterday, I even use a 15 m optical HDMI cable from my PC and 4k / 120 Hz passthrough works so far, HDR10 included. Make sure to get proper certified HDMI 2.1 cables.

On the other hand, you could keep your current AVR and connect external devices to the TV. Sound would be passed from the TV to the AVR via eARC. But that depends on your setup because the TV needs to be running, at least from my experience.

 

[peng]

So you're saying that it's not the amps clipping, but the power supply getting overloaded? Be it 2 channels at 168W (8ohm) or 4 channels at .. 105W for 1%THD? Or combination of both at different times?

Terminologies aside, I would say you are right, that will be a combination of both at different times. When not in preamp mode, unless you aside the FL/FR channels to pre out, the amp will clip at some point and the pre out will get affected though under two channel driven conditions such that SINAD, as measured by Amir will drop to only about 75 dB, that's about the same as the Marantz AV7705 preamp processor. Do you think that's really that bad and audible? As mention, if you turn on ECO, and/or have more speakers driven at the same time, the power amp may clip a little sooner but that would be dependent on the media contents.

There are many variables, but you can narrow things down a lot by figuring out your usage based on your listening habit. Or to be on the safe side, as I mentioned before, Volume 70 seems high so try not to exceed that.. Otherwise just use preamp mode and use external power amp(s).
Don't forget you do have the option to assign the FL and FR to pre out and use a 2 channel external amp, until you are ready to go full blown preamp mode, and for best performance on paper, don't use ECO but do put an external fan to help keep the unit cool.

 

[LunaTempesta]

Using this AVR with an LG C1 without issue. Since yesterday, I even use a 15 m optical HDMI cable from my PC and 4k / 120 Hz passthrough works so far, HDR10 included. Make sure to get proper certified HDMI 2.1 cables.

On the other hand, you could keep your current AVR and connect external devices to the TV. Sound would be passed from the TV to the AVR via eARC. But that depends on your setup because the TV needs to be running, at least from my experience.

Thanks! I tried arc but while the video plays fine the audio stutters like mad. Read something about 7.1/5.1 DTS audio files not working well with arc through TV.

Tried optical as well but couldn't get the TV to even transfer audio through optical not sure if it had to do with the AVR settings. I have an old Yamaha Htr 4067 which is a very basic 5.1 model.

 

[GrumpE1]

Sorry to interject an off question into your conversation. I've just unpacked and set in place my X3700 to find that the volume knob was bound up at it's mid point... was able to ease it thru and work it a bit, so now it turns fairly free. However the selector knob doesn't feel to have any detent's. Other than seeing the screen change, there's no click or positive feel... and it's able to turn a bit one side or the other without effecting change. If it's turned very slowly, with a light touch (finger tips)... it's possible to feel a slight 'spot' but there's no positive set as my previous Denon had. Is this typical, or has the blow this unit must have sustained also effected the selector knob.

It's quite a ride back to the store just to feel the controls of their display unit, and so your input is very much appreciated.

 

[Chromatischism]

My Denon AVRs have never had detents on their volume knobs. My NAD did not either, so I assumed that was normal. I will have to check the source selector when I get home as I rarely use it.

Have owned: S500BT, AVR-1910, AVR-X4000, AVR-X4500H

 

[GrumpE1]

Thank You Chomatischism,

The unit being replaced is a c2005 Denon AVR1705, and although that was near the bottom of Denon's offerings at the time... it has a precision feel to the knobs. Soft, but clear detents on both.

There is quite the contrast to the feel of these controls, coupled with the blow this box sustained... binding of the Volume knob... in any event, my concerns are laid to rest for now. Time to finish setting it up!

Your reply is much appreciated.

 

[RC231]

I have a x3700h that I bought last year when prices are lower and am moving to a new house. I want to use my current 3700 for a 5.1 setup in the family room and want to set up a second system driving 2.1 in the living room and 2 in ceiling speakers on zone 2 in the kitchen. This system will be music only with no video or movies. I am looking at buying another reciever to run this and know I want the audessy xt32 but don't care about most of the other features. The x3500 did not measure as well as the 3600/3700 will this be audible if I buy a 3300/3400/3500 for the second system? Looking to possibly save some money if I can so I can spend it on a bigger subwoofer for the family room system.
Speakers will be
Family room: NHT classic 2 LCR and Zero rear for family room with hopefully a new sub (TBD shopping big and used)
Living Room: NHT absolute zero + PSA s1500
Kitchen: Probably monoprice alpha 8" with backer cans.

 

[Dj7675]

I have a x3700h that I bought last year when prices are lower and am moving to a new house. I want to use my current 3700 for a 5.1 setup in the family room and want to set up a second system driving 2.1 in the living room and 2 in ceiling speakers on zone 2 in the kitchen. This system will be music only with no video or movies. I am looking at buying another reciever to run this and know I want the audessy xt32 but don't care about most of the other features. The x3500 did not measure as well as the 3600/3700 will this be audible if I buy a 3300/3400/3500 for the second system? Looking to possibly save some money if I can so I can spend it on a bigger subwoofer for the family room system.
Speakers will be
Family room: NHT classic 2 LCR and Zero rear for family room with hopefully a new sub (TBD shopping big and used)
Living Room: NHT absolute zero + PSA s1500
Kitchen: Probably monoprice alpha 8" with backer cans.

The 3300/3400/3500 etc should be fine. If you look in the 3500 review if you keep it under 1.4V (Vol at 76.5). See https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...vr-x3500h-avr-review.10053/page-3#post-273135
When operating in this range (like the 3600/3700) the 3500 for example is also a good receiver.

 

[Jake Cushing]

Forgive me if I have missed it in this thread, but do we have a sense of the performance of this amp when analogue RCA inputs are used, and bass management engaged. Ie, pure-direct is not utilised?
It appeared that Amir measured analogue input SINAD performance only via pure-direct.

 

[notabenem]

Forgive me if I have missed it in this thread, but do we have a sense of the performance of this amp when analogue RCA inputs are used, and bass management engaged. Ie, pure-direct is not utilised?
It appeared that Amir measured analogue input SINAD performance only via pure-direct.

Not measuring via Pure Direct would not measure the DAC, but the DAC together with the DPS's effects. What are you after? The amount of distortion added by the DSP in different modes?