Denon AVR-X3600H AV Receiver Review

[CerealKiller]

Device has 9 internal amps. Totally agree on the rest. I have been eyeing this unit, thanks to both Amir and whomever sent it in for the hands-on test !!!

My bad, did not checked specs. Still, 9 (goodish) amped chanels for $1K !!

 

[Sancus]

that's another hi-fi madness: you have a receiver, take out 11 amps (or 9 or whatever) and sell it at double price.

The price of AVRs is not driven by cost of components but rather by cost of manufacturing, support, and economies of scale, and pre-pros sell in far lower numbers so this actually makes sense. You can take out all the components you want but if your prepro sells 5000 units and Denon sells 500,000 AVRs, both companies still need to pay their fixed overhead so the prepro has to be much more expensive.

And there's no 500K market for prepros because HT owners still mostly use passive speakers.

 

[carlob]

The price of AVRs is not driven by cost of components but rather by cost of manufacturing, support, and economies of scale, and pre-pros sell in far lower numbers so this actually makes sense. You can take out all the components you want but if your prepro sells 5000 units and Denon sells 500,000 AVRs, both companies still need to pay their fixed overhead so the prepro has to be much more expensive.

And there's no 500K market for prepros because HT owners still mostly use passive speakers.

That makes no sense to me in this case: speaking of Denon they could very well sell exactly the same X3600H without the amps, also I believe that Marantz/Denon share the same components. There is no reason to sell basically the same product stripped of the amps for twice the price speaking of the same manifacturer.

 

[Sancus]

That makes no sense to me in this case: speaking of Denon they could very well sell exactly the same X3600H without the amps, also I believe that Marantz/Denon share the same components.

Why would anyone buy an X3600H without amps? Nobody wants to add additional boxes(amplifiers) which cost money to run their home theatre.

 

[carlob]

Why would anyone buy an X3600H without amps? Nobody wants to add additional boxes(amplifiers) which cost money to run their home theatre.

Did you read this thread?
Besides that I would buy it if was correctly priced (aka less than the receiver) given that I couldn't care less of the s*hitty amps they put on these receivers.

 

[capt.s]

With the good results from the x3600h in pre-out mode with amps disconnected I'm eager to see what the 4xxx series can do. Intrigued whether DDSC 32-bit and AL32 Processing Plus can make a meaningful difference or just marketing hype? Oh... and jitter reduction - hope so!

 

[Sancus]

Did you read this thread?

What would there to be read? Nothing in this thread applies to the actual market for AVRs. Most of the people buying these Denon units want a single box that will power all their speakers and have the features(Atmos, # of channels, etc) that they need.

Adding cable and box clutter to make inaudible numbers go higher doesn't really come into the conversation. The prepro market is much smaller because the number of people willing to add separates and worry about things like SINAD is much smaller, that's all there is to it.

That might change one day if and when active speakers are the "default" for HT use, but they are currently not.

 

[carlob]

What would there to be read? Nothing in this thread applies to the actual market for AVRs. Most of the people buying these Denon units want a single box that will power all their speakers and have the features(Atmos, # of channels, etc) that they need.

Adding cable and box clutter to make inaudible numbers go higher doesn't really come into the conversation. The prepro market is much smaller because the number of people willing to add separates and worry about things like SINAD is much smaller, that's all there is to it.

That might change one day if and when active speakers are the "default" for HT use, but they are currently not.

Next time read the thread before jumping on your keyboard. People here are drooling over this receiver *with amps disconnected*, we had also somebody that wants to open it to phisically disconnect the amps.
I don't give a shit about the market for avrs and don't need a lecture on that, thanks.

 

[Dj7675]

With the good results from the x3600h in pre-out mode with amps disconnected I'm eager to see what the 4xxx series can do. Intrigued whether DDSC 32-bit and AL32 Processing Plus can make a meaningful difference or just marketing hype? Oh... and jitter reduction - hope so!

Remember the great measurements only apply to the L/R channels. Only the x8500 can disconnect any channel.

 

[Sancus]

Next time read the thread before jumping on your keyboard. People here are drooling over this receiver *with amps disconnected*, we had also somebody that wants to open it to phisically disconnect the amps.

You aren't reading my posts either, or paying attention to the conversation, so it is at its end.

 

[MZKM]

Jitter test showed some issues though over coax input:

By the way, I played with Direct and Pure Direct modes and it made no difference in any of the above tests. The same was true of the amplifier tests below.

Did you try 48kHz? Seeing as how the SINAD for that is better, I wonder if jitter is as well.

 

[amirm]

Did you try 48kHz? Seeing as how the SINAD for that is better, I wonder if jitter is as well.

Jitter tests I run are always at 48 kHz.

 

[capt.s]

Remember the great measurements only apply to the L/R channels. Only the x8500 can disconnect any channel.

Agreed - I understand that. To clarify, I personally (with a mixed use system) am much more forgiving of the surround sound ultimate fidelity as long as stereo music listening is a good as is reasonable to expect from a multiple trick pony.

 

[BsdKurt]

Denon sure has loyal followers. I provided warranty service Denon for some years. The company was a dream to work with in a good way but the product was Sony Sony Sony... Nothing special but a loyal following of customers.

It all started for me with the DRA-755 circa 1985 and that led to their AVRs. I guess I fall into the loyal followers catagory. I still have that first Denon. I’m not exactly sure why; I guess nostalgia.

 

[MarcT]

I should note, for those interested in Auro3D or simply an older unit that may be cheaper on sale, the AVR-4500H has this same 11 channel mode that requires you to use the pre-outs for the L/R channels, so I'm guessing it functions the exact same way.

E: Oh, and in case it's confusing, you can turn 11-channel mode on but still only use a lower number of actual active channels, so it won't mess up surround mixes/movie watching or anything like that even if you don't have a full 7.1.4 setup.

But do we know that the 4500 actually matches Amir's test results for the 3600? It seems this 3600 has raised the bar for ARVs. I would probably look for a used 4500 as you suggested, if it measures equally.

 

[Sancus]

But do we know that the 4500 actually matches Amir's test results for the 3600? It seems this 3600 has raised the bar for ARVs. I would probably look for a used 4500 as you suggested, if it measures equally.

We don't, but the AVR-3500H(from the same year) was measured before the amp starts to clip and turned out quite decent, so it's extremely probable that the 4500H has a similar SINAD in pre-out only mode for the L/R channels alone. It may still be a couple db worse than the AVR-3600H, though.

 

[SKBubba]

This review shows that the posts by ASR gets back to these folks. Still I think avr as a group are woefully underperforming. Im sure cost has alot to do with, but these devices have been allowed to sell poor performance for crazy prices. Anyways thanks for the review ASR.

Conversely, these devices have enabled millions of "normal" people to enjoy decent sound at reasonable prices and get lots of features in the bargain.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

I agree. @amirm needs to get a young intern to pass the torch in the next decade or two when he finally decides to retire.

Maybe his progency one

I agree. @amirm needs to get a young intern to pass the torch in the next decade or two when he finally decides to retire.

Yes indeed. May need an older "intern" who has means to remain objective.

 

[madbrayniak]

My father-in-law has sung praises for Denon since I met him 13 years ago. He has an Onkyo that I talked him into years ago when he first moved to HDMI and it was just the better value...he has always claimed his Denon sounded better.

I better not show him this ..

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

That makes no sense to me in this case: speaking of Denon they could very well sell exactly the same X3600H without the amps, also I believe that Marantz/Denon share the same components. There is no reason to sell basically the same product stripped of the amps for twice the price speaking of the same manifacturer.

The price is determined by the customer base. Until this site lifted the veil, the target base assumed the pre had much better performance. Subjective reviews confirmed the expectations. Amir's reviews of some really expensive (to me) AVR pre-amps shocked this old man.