Denon 2023 range X3900H/X4900H/X6800H announcement....!!??

[-Matt-]

...for Dirac apparently

Here is a document describing the HDMI diagnostics on older models.

https://www.accessories4less.com/mas_assets/media/manuals/Denon/denonhdmi.pdf

I can't find the equivalent document for the latest generation of HDMI board (A1H, AV10, X6800) which apparently have even more advanced features (according to the Audioholics Masimo interview about the X6800).

@17:40

Since the document isn't directly referring to your X6800 please exercise extreme caution before trying any of the functions mentioned.

Edit: It sounds like you now access the HDMI diagnostics tools through the advanced menu in the web interface. With the password being the model number.

 

[Tanquen]

With any HDMI problems (such as audio drop out) the first thing to do is to check the cable. Apparently the X6800 has some pretty advanced HDMI test capabilities built in.

The cables and everything else are the same as two days ago with the X6500H. There is no video issue just audio. Not sure a low voltage data cable can mess with just the digital audio.

Did you upgrade for more channels or better video support?

It has the same channels with two more sets of speaker posts and the 4 discrete sub outs. I like that it has all real(?) HDMI 2.1 ports but I'd already circumvented the AVR for 4k, 120Hz, 10-bit, 4:4:4 chroma gaming. So, just for Dirac access. I also wanted to try the QMS but unknown to me, Denon removed that from the X800s after it only being there for the X700s?

 

[peng]

Do you think the new DAC chip will lead to a significant measurable improvement? I had the impression their analog preamp and power amp section in the AVR are the bottleneck for significant SINAD improvement. I might be wrong though, that’s why I am asking. Or are there other improvements to be had? (higher DSP rate?)

As an avr, the poweramp is the bottleneck. As preamp/processor, the dac is the bottleneck, based on the specs of the TI chip used, TI has better chips, but the one used has SINAD spec of only 93 dB. Before the TI chip, they used the AKM chip that was not the bottleneck. The preamp/volume control chip has not been changed as far as I know.

It likely won't make audible difference but it surely won't hurt to have at least 100 dB.

 

[-Matt-]

The cables and everything else are the same as two days ago with the X6500H. There is no video issue just audio. Not sure a low voltage data cable can mess with just the digital audio.

But the previous model couldn't do 8k or 4k@120Hz therefore only needed a lower bandwidth cable.

Also, it may make a difference if the audio is being sent from a source via hdmi to the AVR (direct path). Or if it has to go: source > AVR > TV >eARC> AVR.

I think there is an option for whether the TV or AVR receives the audio somewhere in the menu.

 

[ban25]

But the previous model couldn't do 8k or 4k@120Hz therefore only needed a lower bandwidth cable.

This. He needs HDMI 2.1 40/48 Gbps cables. The D+M AVRs also have a built-in cable test.

 

[Tanquen]

But the previous model couldn't do 8k or 4k@120Hz therefore only needed a lower bandwidth cable.

Also, it may make a difference if the audio is being sent from a cable box via hdmi to the AVR (direct path). Or if it has to go cable box > AVR > TV >eARC> AVR.

I think there is an option for whether the TV or AVR receives the audio somewhere in the menu.

You only need new HDMI 2.1 cables for longer runs at higher bandwidth. Many/some older (shorter) HDMI cables will work just fine at 40-48Gbps. Some new HDMI 2.1 "certified" cables do not work at 40-48Gbps. I went through a few two years ago when I got a RTX-3080 to use with the 120Hz LG C9.

Sorry for any confusion:

... but I'd already circumvented the AVR for 4k, 120Hz, 10-bit, 4:4:4 chroma gaming.

and still am at this time.

The cables and everything else are the same as two days ago with the X6500H. There is no video issue just audio. Not sure a low voltage data cable can mess with just the digital audio.

 

[-Matt-]

For general buggyness is the firmware up-to-date? I guess it may take a little while to shake out teething problems. You are a very early adopter here.

But I'd look into trying the built in cable test feature anyway. It is great if the AVR can confirm for you that the cable should work full bandwidth. It allows you to rule out that possibility.

 

[Tanquen]

As an avr, the poweramp is the bottleneck. As preamp/processor, the dac is the bottleneck, based on the specs of the TI chip used, TI has better chips, but the one used has SINAD spec of only 93 dB. Before the TI chip, they used the AKM chip that was not the bottleneck. The preamp/volume control chip has not been changed as far as I know.

It likely won't make audible difference but it surely won't hurt to have at least 100 dB.

Is it the S/N dB? So the X6800H processor is between the A1H and X8500HA but they have not said what the DAC is? Can you tell based on the given processor dB?

 

[Tanquen]

For general buggyness is the firmware up-to-date? I guess it may take a little while to shake out teething problems. You are a very early adopter here.

There were two separate update so far. The last one was about Dirac Live Bass Control. Its currently at: Version 7200-9275-3032-1300

P.S. The web page is a little snapper on the X6800H.

 

[-Matt-]

Is it the S/N dB?

Pretty sure it is the THD+N that relates to SINAD (if that is what you are asking).

 

[peng]

Is it the S/N dB? So the X6800H processor is between the A1H and X8500HA but they have not said what the DAC is? Can you tell based on the given processor dB?
View attachment 344990

No, can't tell from that table, who supplied that table anyway?

 

[peng]

Pretty sure it is the THD+N that relates to SINAD (if that is what you are asking).

I think he's asking about the dac chip used.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

As an avr, the poweramp is the bottleneck. As preamp/processor, the dac is the bottleneck, based on the specs of the TI chip used, TI has better chips, but the one used has SINAD spec of only 93 dB. Before the TI chip, they used the AKM chip that was not the bottleneck. The preamp/volume control chip has not been changed as far as I know.

It likely won't make audible difference but it surely won't hurt to have at least 100 dB.

That indeed would be welcomed. Hope it also extends a bit the preamp output voltage with SINAD at least keeping low and not creeping up.

 

[peng]

That indeed would be welcomed. Hope it also extends a bit the preamp output voltage with SINAD at least keeping low and not creeping up.

For SINAD you want it to remain high, not low lol... For THD+N, that is the reciprocal of SINAD is the one you want to keep low and not creeping up as preout voltage increases. If you don't use preamp mode or disconnect the individual power amp channels, SINAD will drop, though it really isn't as bad as people made it out to be. It typically would drop to about 75 dB SINAD, that isn't that bad imo.

 

[Descartes]

What would you expect in feature set changes to such (your 3900/4900/6800 proposal) to be worth waiting for or exchanging for over current offerings?

Class D amplification with Hypex or Purifi!

 

[Ciobi69]

Class D amplification with Hypex or Purifi!

Too expensive for it

 

[HarmonicTHD]

For SINAD you want it to remain high, not low lol... For THD+N, that is the reciprocal of SINAD is the one you want to keep low and not creeping up as preout voltage increases. If you don't use preamp mode or disconnect the individual power amp channels, SINAD will drop, though it really isn't as bad as people made it out to be. It typically would drop to about 75 dB SINAD, that isn't that bad imo.

Yes. Sorry my bad. That’s what I meant.

But I rather not want to have SINAD dropping in preamp mode as this is the only mode I use. And stay high as we observe in many other DACs. Actually SINAD often even increases further right up to the clipping point. 75dB is not attractive for me at let’s say 4Vrms preout especially running this signal subsequently through 20 to 26dB power amp gain.

 

[Ciobi69]

I got the nad 758 the worst of all, do you think I could have heared improvement by changing it? I use it only as a pre , separate amps I mean

 

[Descartes]

Too expensive for it

That’s unfortunate!

 

[peng]

Yes. Sorry my bad. That’s what I meant.

But I rather not want to have SINAD dropping in preamp mode as this is the only mode I use. And stay high as we observe in many other DACs. Actually SINAD often even increases further right up to the clipping point. 75dB is not attractive for me at let’s say 4Vrms preout especially running this signal subsequently through 20 to 26dB power amp gain.

You do get much higher than 75 dB in preamp mode at above 2 V or even close to 4V. Amir did measure the x6700h to above 4 v, you should take a look of the curve there to get an idea.