Denon DCD-900NE Review (CD Player)

[Scytales]

Well – the point is, that as soon as an analogue signal has been processed from digital, the DA conversion is complete. How can there be any reasonable doubt about it?!

Any further treatment of the resulting analogue signal, may it be necessary or not, is not part of that conversion. Instead, it may rather be evidence to the fact that the precedent conversion process has some basic flaws.

The goal for the coming future now has to be to develop a DA conversion that is free of any noteworthy flaws. AI may be of some help to reach that goal.

May I suggest that your point is irrelevant: the low-pass reconstruction filter (what you name the further treatment of the analogue signal) is necessary not because of the digital nature of the input signal, but because the input signal is also a sampled signal. An analogue low-pass reconstruction filter would also be necessary if the input signal had been a sampled analogue signal.

Flaws in the DA conversion process have been corrected for decades using sigma-delta techniques, which overcame the practical impossibility of building high-precision switched resistors PCM converters.

 

[NTTY]

Well – the point is, that as soon as an analogue signal has been processed from digital, the DA conversion is complete. How can there be any reasonable doubt about it?!

Any further treatment of the resulting analogue signal, may it be necessary or not, is not part of that conversion. Instead, it may rather be evidence to the fact that the precedent conversion process has some basic flaws.

The goal for the coming future now has to be to develop a DA conversion that is free of any noteworthy flaws. AI may be of some help to reach that goal.

It’s because you don’t understand in full the theory nor the practice of A/D and D/A. So you’re imagining a problem and a solution, but none exist in real life.

I recommend you read The Data Conversion Handbook from Analog Devices. Chapter 2 is good to understand the fundamentals.

 

[EJ3]

The response sounds like a gobbledygook feel good answer that is incorrect. Perhaps ChatGPT needs to be more up front and not give mushy answers instead of hard facts.

ChatGPT is being trained primarily by mushy people, so this is to be expected.

 

[Deleted member 77012]

The Data Conversion Handbook

Which seems to be some 20 years old – while I was merely talking about how DACs may be improved in the future. Don't you understand that this is not the same?

 

[NTTY]

Which seems to be some 20 years old – while I was merely talking about how DACs may be improved in the future. Don't you understand that this is not the same?

Which means you did not read. And I understand that you don’t get it, and worse you don’t want to.
And 20 years old, or (more than) 200 years, does not change the interpolation theories and their well known applications, in particular to reconstruct analog signal from discrete samples. Wadia, back in 1990, used a Langrage (high oversampling) interpolator to reconstruct the analog signal, which somewhat converges with sinc interpolation in use in nearly all ADCs and DACs. Nothing new, nothing to solve because there's no problem here.
To be honest, many people have been trying to help you for pages, but you’re not interested. So best is to end this discussion.

 

[NTTY]

Stop, please. You’re not here to learn or interact with curiosity/interest. As @antcollinet said earlier, I won’t be engaging with you further,

 

[antcollinet]

Stop, please. You’re not here to learn or interact with curiosity/interest. As @antcollinet said earlier, I won’t be engaging with you further,

This is what stupid prizes look like.

 

[AdamG]

This is what stupid prizes look like.

He just got a few bonus stupid prizes and I have a hunch he won’t be replying to this thread going forward.

 

[musicforcities]

Denon makes a big deal about the chassis reducing vibrations.

Maybe I am wrong, but for me “vibration” reduction is right up there in audiophoolishness with speaker cable risers/stands.

So I am asking those here who know far more than me, how much is “vibration” an issue with cd players built to any degree of competence? unless you are using it in a car…how can any reasonable vibration generated internally or externally have any meaningful impact on measurements? The wobbling of any CD due to manufacturing tolerances would seem far greater than any “vibration”. Any any transport that works at all tracks those variations seamlessly. Plus error correction, plus the standard mechanical isolation of the laser head and spindle.

And there is no way in my thinking that any reasonable would impact the DAC performance, I guess unless it’s a vacuum tube powered DAC…lol.

But it is a beautiful looking machine with nice performance and often available for $350 or less.

 

[musicforcities]

Well – the point is, that as soon as an analogue signal has been processed from digital, the DA conversion is complete. How can there be any reasonable doubt about it?!

Any further treatment of the resulting analogue signal, may it be necessary or not, is not part of that conversion. Instead, it may rather be evidence to the fact that the precedent conversion process has some basic flaws.

The goal for the coming future now has to be to develop a DA conversion that is free of any noteworthy flaws. AI may be of some help to reach that goal.

Look up technology connections you tube video on the unquiet-Shannon filter. It is an excellent accessible explanation of how ad/da works and why a CD quality bit rate/sampling frequency and a sigma delta ADC/DAC creates a perfect reproduction of the original curve.

Also you might learn by logical inference why your avatar, hi-res , ie more than redboik CD quality, is almost always completely pointless (maybe unless you are using digital volume controls that work by dropping bits AND you are listening at very very low levels with an extremely good headphone amp and stellar headphones AND have exceptional/perfect hearing up to 20khz.

 

[musicforcities]

Which seems to be some 20 years old – while I was merely talking about how DACs may be improved in the future. Don't you understand that this is not the same?

20 years ago—or really well before that—the ADC / DAC problem was technically solved. unless human hearing evolves so we can hear frequencies higher than 22kz, it is perfect in theory.

In the subsequent 20 years, manufacturing and implementation has advance such that one can get many DACs priced at $100 or less that are more or less perfect relative to our biological limits. And any significant thd and noise is likely an effect from the power supply or circuit or single ended topologies than the DAC chip or filter. And inexpensive dacs can be made that easily well surpass the limits of human hearing.

And in any case, the thd and noise from amplification and any speaker or headphone is orders of magnitude greater than that of the DAC. Which is why you want the signal out of the DAC to be as clean as possible before amplification. That is why Amir often is disappointed by the DACs inside many AVRs, whose amp sections can also be subpar, multiplying SNAID by SINAID. But even then, you better have extremely accurate speakers and an extreme acoustically conditioned listening room…

 

[phn]

---snip---

Conclusion

Used as a CD player, in audio band, these are the best results I got so far. All measurements are very close to what's on the test CD, so it can't really get better. The Denon DCD-900NE is also flawless as a transport.

When compared to my older Denon DCD-SA1, the little DCD-900NE did better absolutely everywhere (from CDA), wow! It is really nice to see older mega expensive technology becoming available to more people.

The behavior of the AL32 filtering is funny, designed to shine under measurements. It's been ongoing for a long time, the DCD-S10 was already including some tricks.

All that said, I am happy of what I saw, and this DCD-900NE is a keeper. It becomes my new low cost reference CD Player, awaiting for the one that will beat it (and even regardless of price, good luck).

I hope you enjoyed the long review and, as usual, let me know how to improve and if you have questions. I have recorded all the 44 measurements (and much more) and if you want me to publish others or run one of your choice, feel free to ask.

--------
Flo

Thank you for your review, @NTTY . I just found this thread and have read it a couple of times.

Some 18 months ago, I opted to have a CD player again, I had a good few CDs but did not listen to them much, and what I did was with my Bluray player. It was cumbersome to use, so as I got drawn back to CDs again I thought it is time to buy a dedicated player again.

I had a good look between 600NE and 900NE, finally decided on former, as it had the features I needed, basically a solid transport and an Optical out in case I would get interested on experimenting with some external DACs at some stage. The 32bit processing seemed to be the same as well, 900NE boasts a clock to reduce jitter, they claim, maybe it does, but again for my not so golden ears I considered that not an upgrade to pay for either.

There was a 120 € difference, so I decided to use that elsewhere instead.

I was under the impression for most parts 600NE and 900NE would be identical in the features and components they have in common. I would be interested to learn if they are, though, does anyone know?

 

[NTTY]

Thanks for the comments.

Looking at pictures of the inside of both players on Denon’s website, I can see significant differences, but the pictures are not of high quality. I can see, for instance, what appears to be a refined output stage with the 900NE, with a separated analog card.

Not sure how that would impact performances.

 

[phn]

The Denon 900NE offers a USB port for playing digital music. It also offers a COAX output plus Optical. The Denon 600NE is a basic CD player without a USB port. It supports RCA/Optical outs. When used as a CD transport they both sound the same. However, the internal ES9018K2M DAC found in the 900NE offers a slightly more refined sound to my ears than the 600NE when using RCA connections.

So they do have a different DAC then. For some reason, I thought they both used a similar TI DAC. That would have probably justified the difference in price for me.

Over the last 18 months since I got it, my experience with AVR setups and room tuning has actually shifted me from a Pure Direct enthusiast to an Audyssey One connoisseur also for 2-channel listening.

I did grab some quality RCA cables with the 120€ I saved back then, but these days, I’m almost exclusively using the optical out to my AVR that then does its Audy magic.

 

[phn]

When you use the optical out on the Denon 600NE it's internal DAC is inactive and it's simply a transport. In this case, the DAC inside the AVR is providing the conversion. That's how I use it as well. I agree, Audyssey room correction is usually superior to Pure Direct for most listeners.

Thanks for the insights, @amper42. I did indeed buy it mainly as a transport.

Initially, I thought I’d experiment with external DACs for Pure Direct, but now, running it through the AVR, I've realized that adding another DAC (at least in this setup) would probably yield diminishing returns, for me, anyway.

Of course, I can always pick one up down the line if I feel like experimenting!

 

[phn]

^ To conclude, I’m quite happy with the 600NE, a solid little player with a lot of bang for the buck it is. That said, and with what’s been mentioned above: the 900NE is a great starting point for anyone looking for a quality transport that also has a solid DAC on board.

If I were shopping for a new player right now, I’d likely go with the 900NE now.

 

[Repdetect]

When you use the optical out on the Denon 600NE it's internal DAC is inactive and it's simply a transport. In this case, the DAC inside the AVR is providing the conversion. That's how I use it as well. I agree, Audyssey room correction is usually superior to Pure Direct for most listeners.

"When you use the optical out on the Denon 600NE it's internal DAC is inactive and it's simply a transport."
Is that true for the 900ne as well? Thanks.

 

[Repdetect]

Will the 900ne display all the folders on a usb hard drive? I have nearly a 1,000 cd's in flac on a hard drive, the 3800 receiver won't. My $300 Sony UBP-X800M2- does.

Can someone please check. Thank you.

 

[NTTY]

Will the 900ne display all the folders on a usb hard drive? I have nearly a 1,000 cd's in flac on a hard drive, the 3800 receiver won't. My $300 Sony UBP-X800M2- does.

Can someone please check. Thank you.

Info from the manual:

But it would painful since the Denon "plays" the USB content like it would play a CD, tracks in the order that it sees them. There's no interface to select folder/subfolder or search for an album/artist/etc... So that's only to be used as an extension of a CD / SACD. Instead of burning a CD, you put one or couple of albums on the drive and listen to it/them.

 

[Repdetect]

Info from the manual:

View attachment 404510

But it would painful since the Denon "plays" the USB content like it would play a CD, tracks in the order that it sees them. There's no interface to select folder/subfolder or search for an album/artist/etc... So that's only to be used as an extension of a CD / SACD. Instead of burning a CD, you put one or couple of albums on the drive and listen to it/them.

Thanks much for your reply. I bought a 1700 NE and found the same issue,, poor USB music file handling, no search function, so sent it back. Hoped the 900 NE would be better. It's not.
Bought a second Sony x800, which manages music files on USB very well, sounds great and plays SACD , blu-rays, 4k, and it's under $300! I expected more from Denon.