• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Denon 2023 range X3900H/X4900H/X6800H announcement....!!??

hmt

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
402
Likes
545
In the Audioholics interview Phil Jones also mentioned that they do not see the point in keeping up a product cycle of one year and that it will be more like 3 years. I dont find atm but it must be on some of the 2020-22 videos with them and audioholics. It alos makes sense since the 1 year cycle has always been questionable.
 

napfkuchen

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2022
Messages
324
Likes
445
Location
Germany
I don't the need for
Are the current models so limited by their brand of DAC chips at the moment?
I had the "old" 3700x with - according to reviews - much better SINAD than the 3800x. For me there is no audible difference between the two devices. On the other hand, the added features, in particular several subwoofer outputs that can be controlled separately, the option for Dirac and high-res OSD, represent a real improvement. At the current price, the overall package is definitely an okay upgrade which does not need a replacement right now.
Of course you could still wish for Class D power amplifiers. I just don't see how you could integrate 9 power amplifiers with this technology for just over 1,000 euros / US$ in an AVR, considering the prices of such products. At least for the x3XXX and x4XXX series, that's not the way to go in the foreseeable future, unless customers are willing to pay much more for their new AVR (which they are not ...).
 

Spocko

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Sep 27, 2019
Messages
1,621
Likes
3,000
Location
Southern California
Now that the world has come to normal and everything is fine.

So its expected that the AVR manufacturers will be back to announcing yearly AVR launches with new technologies and amazing trickle down features from higher models to lower models.

How soon will DENON announce replacements for the aging X3800H and X4800H ?

Also what's the DAC scene ? Has Denon been able to secure AKM chips for this years models ?

What are 2023/2024 most anticipated features ?

Looking forward to the X3900/X4900/X6800....!!!
For me, the biggest improvements to any AVR are:
  1. Power efficiency (the less heat the better)
  2. Dual subwoofer optimization like Dirac Live Bass Control Multisubwoofer
  3. Copy Sony's center channel uplift feature where you matrix the center height with the center speaker (for when you have to place the speaker closer to the ground)
 

Chrispy

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 7, 2020
Messages
7,883
Likes
6,054
Location
PNW
Reliable firmware? Some real support for HDMI-CEC? I guess it could be done as a minor upgrade ;)
LOL that may be a stretch expecting improvements for hdmi-cec. You have had firmware failures? I normally just turn firmware updates off...seems they're all Heos these days which I don't even use.
 

popej

Active Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2023
Messages
278
Likes
185
LOL that may be a stretch expecting improvements for hdmi-cec
I'm using old Yamaha V777 which supports CEC quite well. I see no reason for new Denon to be inferior.
You have had firmware failures? I normally just turn firmware updates off
There are known bugs in old firmware. I have updated firmware at first setup of x3800. Still I suffered many problems related to operation. I got enough and sent it back. You could say it was a failure. And I really liked sound and features.
 

machinist

New Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2023
Messages
2
Likes
1
It's the same guy to told me about the Dirac-Denon collaboration back in 2021 and about the secret beta FW to support Dirac ART. He's an insider. I'm on the fence with the X4800H and asked him if I should wait for X4900H to arrive so the X4800H's price will drop. He told me there is no current R&D taking place at all, and no X900 for the next 2 years. The next line, however, could add support for AI-based interface and audio processing, but that's just an idea, yet to be brought to any workbench...

What about an X6800H, any info on that?
 
OP
R

rana_kirti

Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2021
Messages
67
Likes
23
so essentially if there is no x3900/4900/6800 announcement at Cedia 2023, then it's safe to say we are stuck with ti dac for another year.....?
 

hmt

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
402
Likes
545
They can change the DAC like they did before without a new model. Still don't see why the TI DAC is such a problem.
 

Lumi

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2023
Messages
14
Likes
10
Hi @hmt

Well I think it's human nature and lack of full knowledge and understanding on my part at this stage.

Heres my current feeling...3700 had Sinad 97 If I recall correctly

3800 has sinad 87.

So I read a few things like, 96 dB SINAD (16 bit / CD quality. And I see 3800 is 87. I see some people post it's not audible don't worry. Other factors have more effect etc. But at what point is it too low? I see others saying they look for such and such a figure for Sinad to feel comfortable. So now I'm trying to find out what this actually means and educate myself. As I fully admit I don't have the knowledge and understanding at this present moment in time.

I feel like I'm being sold a car that did top speed 200 mph 2 years ago. But now does 180mph. Non of which in real world use would matter as say for eg the speed limit is 70mph. But I'm also being asked to pay more..so pay more and get not as good (ok inflation COVID etc etc). But this doesn't feel right. Combined with unclear release schedules. If denon clearly stated when the next cycle was and possible upgrade of dac and I reached a reasonable understanding of the Sinad figure in avrs and the reality of 87 v 97 and was ok with 87 then I'd feel happier about purchasing now or id wait. Why can't Denon just be transparent. So at present these issues are stopping me purchasing new. Maybe I'll go second hand and wait while I try to understand better?

This is why the ti dac is a problem for me

Untill I know better
 

hmt

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
402
Likes
545
It is called availability bias. You judge the AVR based on the data that is available not on the data that is important.
 

Lumi

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2023
Messages
14
Likes
10
Hmm I'm not sure about that...maybe.

I'm judging the avr based on data that is available..3700 has Sinad 97 3800 has Sinad 87. Wether or not it's important is what I'm trying to understand. At some point it must be I would think. Also if you can help...what does 96db Sinad for cd 16 bit mean for an avr that's 87 Sinad ?

Thanks
 

popej

Active Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2023
Messages
278
Likes
185
I see some people post it's not audible don't worry. Other factors have more effect etc. But at what point is it too low?
Have you tried to estimate SINAD of your speakers? I think good speakers can have about 40-60dB SINAD, if you ignore very low frequency. So anything better then speakers shouldn't be a problem?
 

Lumi

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2023
Messages
14
Likes
10
Also if I bought now and then they release in Oct 2023 with a dac of Sinad 97 again for eg I might be a bit upset.
 

Lumi

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2023
Messages
14
Likes
10
Have you tried to estimate SINAD of your speakers? I think good speakers can have about 40-60dB SINAD, if you ignore very low frequency. So anything better then speakers shouldn't be a problem?
No I haven't and to be fair they are quite old now. My old avr lost is left rear channel. So this started the path I'm on now. I run a stereo amp with a separate dac for music so need preout to fronts on an avr.
 

hmt

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
402
Likes
545
Hmm I'm not sure about that...maybe.

I'm judging the avr based on data that is available..3700 has Sinad 97 3800 has Sinad 87. Wether or not it's important is what I'm trying to understand. At some point it must be I would think. Also if you can help...what does 96db Sinad for cd 16 bit mean for an avr that's 87 Sinad ?

Thanks

It means nothing when SINAD is driven by distortion (which it is in this case). BTW the dynamic range for program material is usually lower than 10 db (thanks to loundness wars) so the 96 db as itself does not really mean much.

What are you using the AVR for? Are you using the internal amps? If yes the whole point is moot even on a theoretical basis. And btw if your speakers are really old and not top notch I would not think a second about 10 db less of SINAD or even spend money on things like a separate DAC and amp just for music. That's a waste of money. Sell the DAC and amp, buy the X3800 and look for better speakers when you want an upgrade.
 

peng

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 12, 2019
Messages
5,655
Likes
5,216
Also if I bought now and then they release in Oct 2023 with a dac of Sinad 97 again for eg I might be a bit upset.
Not likely, but possible, so may be better to wait if higher SINAD is important to you.
 

Lumi

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2023
Messages
14
Likes
10
Well I already had my creek Evo 50 amp and SEP wyred4sound udac and towers which were good for the time, (A brand I doubt many will know now but the guy went on to be involved with monitor audio). I had this kinda setup before the avr and I like my music over it. Mostly flac from my nas. The avr came after. So it was added in. It was an old Denon 3802. I'd have to test stereo v a new Denon
 

Lumi

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2023
Messages
14
Likes
10
Not likely, but possible, so may be better to wait if higher SINAD is important to you.
That's the thing I don't know if it should be. So just trying to understand it a bit better at present.
 

Lumi

Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2023
Messages
14
Likes
10
Not likely, but possible, so may be better to wait if higher SINAD is important to you.
Also it's linked to wether the x3900 will be out end of year or not. If not I may go for it.
 

hmt

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 11, 2020
Messages
402
Likes
545
There will be no X3900 this year. You are overthinking.
 
Top Bottom