Denafrips ARES II USB R2R DAC Review

[DSJR]

OK, this is anecdotal, but I remember chatting a a UK speaker designer in the 70's about this. The feeling was that adding a touch of noise did often improve the listener's perception of music. As an aside but related to 'listening comfort,' when Decca did their own digital transfers of their own material, my pal who worked there as a mastering engineer had plenty of tapes/files of say, Kingsway Hall 'atmosphere/ambience' and even a Klark Technik equaliser which could adjust its background noise to that of a tape being played, which was skillfully placed in between movements to prevent a sudden drop into 'digital silence.'

Maybe this is perhaps what many lovers of these supposedly bad measuring dacs like? In a room, a clean gentle -70dB level of broadband hiss i suspect isn't an issue at all and of course you get the gentle roll-off over 10khz or so. 'We' loved BBC Radio 3 live concert recordings as heard on FM radio, PCM 13 bit, brickwalled at 15khz and noise floor around -65 to -70dB (can't remember the exact theoretical noise floor for this system). The audible results could be superb. I wasn't keen on DAB as it's become too compromised now, but I gather current BBC FM radio is tapped off the DAB feed - maybe not an issue and in any case, the local radio quality ranges from very good to absolutely diabolical here.

 

[Teroz]

As it comes DAC blind tests and does DAC got differences:
"This will probably get a lot of downvotes, but I joined to help out the community so these are my honest test results.

Shout out to my girlfriend, she's the one managing the blindfolds and connecting the headphone to the dacs and amps.She was really patient, waifu material right here(gotta marry her once I graduate from college)

Headphone in question:ATH A2000Z, I chose this because it is closed back to isolate myself from the rain and this headphone has very good detail retrieval to compare upstream equipment.

Dacs and amps: Realtek motherboard headphone jack, smartphone headphone jack, ibasso D14 bushmaster, schiit stack, little dot mk2 and the chord mojo.

A db-spl meter is used for this test, the headphone is tested at 75-77db

Sighted test: Chord mojo sounds the best, followed by D14, schiit stack, smartphone,and lastly the PC.

Chord mojo, smartphone and PC sounds warm while the schiit stack sounds neutral and the D14 sounds a little bit bright.

Now the interesting part, the blind test.

My girlfriend is doing the switching, all the dacs are connected to the PC.She switches them randomly and after I tell her the answer, she notes it down.

Playing:Redial album by Hatsune Miku(kzlivetune), Kiniro mosiac op and ed, gochiusa op and ed, Hotel California and some 'good' recordings, not weeb shit haha(self depreciation)

Blind test: To tell the difference between all dacs first.

Chord mojo vs PC :15/15(noticable and less bass)

Chord mojo vs phone:15/15(same as the above)

Chord mojo vs schiit stack:15/15(warm vs neutral)

Ibasso d14 vs schiit stack:15/15(bright vs neutral)

Ibasso d14(eqed)vs schiit stack:4/15(too hard)

Added:Modi 2 Uber vs d14 dac to magni 2 :15/15(dat treble on the d14 arghhhh)

Added:Chord mojo line out vs Modi 2 Uber to magni 2:15/15(chord sounds warmer)

Chord mojo vs PC lineout to d14 amp or magni 2:14/15(noticeable)

Chord mojo vs Modi 2 uber and D14 to little dot mk2:12/15(schiit to tube sounds better)

Differences: Chord mojo has a smaller stage compared to the motherboard and the phone, which is a shame.The schiit stack is rather wide-sounding compared to the chord mojo.

Chord mojo has better imaging than all of them, noticable during piano tracks where you can feel the fingers on the piano.It also has better instrument placing.

Chord mojo has less bass but better bass quality.(negligible) compared to the motherboard or phone.Schiit stack has leaner bass.

Vocals on the chord sounded less warm than the motherboard or phone, but it has better highs.Schiit stack sounds neutral.With the tube amp, the schiit simply sounds amazing.

The amp on the phone and the motherboard really helped with a small lift in the clarity.

Ibasso eqed to tame the treble down was too close to the schiit stack with just very small soundstage differences(probably placebo)

Ibasso d14 or magni 2 Uber to Little Dot mk2(stock) sounds better to me than chord mojo(warmer sounding), but chord mojo is portable.

Conclusion, the differences between dacs are not night and day, but are noticeable, often just different sounding.I love the chord mojo for it's portability and I love the schiit stack for it's desktop usage, my chord mojo died on me and this is repaired out of warranty with a small fee(batteries died due to being plugged in 24/7)"

DAC Blind Test Series

Here is my triple blind setup. Each DAC has its own pot (JBL Nano Patch). These pots are used to match levels. The outputs from these pots are then...

www.superbestaudiofriends.org

 

[helom]

all you are saying is that you prefer distortion to clean sound. It does not mean one dac beats the other. Some people like to have sound just as close as possible to what artist intended. You like it changed. Both are ok. But not better.

Have you heard an AresII?

How would you know what an artist intended unless you were in the booth at the recording session?

This notion that objectively perfect-measuring playback (keyword) gear reveals an artist’s true intent is flawed logic in so many ways that a drawn out explanation should not be required.

I would agree the D90 is more accurate on paper but ultimately, the goal is to enjoy the music. It’s hard for me to imagine any listener preferring the sound of the D90 over the Ares in extended listening.

 

[helom]

OK, this is anecdotal, but I remember chatting a a UK speaker designer in the 70's about this. The feeling was that adding a touch of noise did often improve the listener's perception of music. As an aside but related to 'listening comfort,' when Decca did their own digital transfers of their own material, my pal who worked there as a mastering engineer had plenty of tapes/files of say, Kingsway Hall 'atmosphere/ambience' and even a Klark Technik equaliser which could adjust its background noise to that of a tape being played, which was skillfully placed in between movements to prevent a sudden drop into 'digital silence.'

Maybe this is perhaps what many lovers of these supposedly bad measuring dacs like? In a room, a clean gentle -70dB level of broadband hiss i suspect isn't an issue at all and of course you get the gentle roll-off over 10khz or so. 'We' loved BBC Radio 3 live concert recordings as heard on FM radio, PCM 13 bit, brickwalled at 15khz and noise floor around -65 to -70dB (can't remember the exact theoretical noise floor for this system). The audible results could be superb. I wasn't keen on DAB as it's become too compromised now, but I gather current BBC FM radio is tapped off the DAB feed - maybe not an issue and in any case, the local radio quality ranges from very good to absolutely diabolical here.

The Ares isn’t a bad-measuring DAC though.

 

[helom]

Why do audio subjectivists feel compelled to come to a science based forum and wax poetically about their personal preferences and beliefs? There are plenty of other forums where that is welcome.

I appreciate both objectivity and subjectivity. I don’t understand why there can’t be room for both here. I wouldn’t have bought an Ares if not for the mostly good measurements it produced for Amir and Stereophile. Same can be said for the D90 I owned. My initial reservations in trying an Ares was the likelihood it would have major flaws given the design choices. This forum helped put those concerns to rest.

Subjectively speaking, I enjoy it more than the D90, and by a landslide. It’s not as though I strain to hear the improvement, as was the case in my comparison of the Pro-Ject PreBox and Chord Qutest. I have no problem confessing that I may be enjoying a form of “coloration” the Ares is producing. But so what? I can’t share here that I actually prefer it to the D90? Maybe the large number of those who prefer this R2R DAC to a good delta-sigma suggests there are further experiments we should conduct on listener preferences, at least where DACs are concerned — that maybe someone should setup a large ABX trial between such DACs. Seems to me there are more questions that need answered when it comes to listener preferences in audio playback. After all, part of science is determining whether we’re asking the right questions, and continuing to ask questions.

 

[helom]

I've heard a R2R ladder DAC. It was my original CD player, a Sony CDP-101, purchased in the 1980s.

lol

 

[Veri]

lol

What's funny about vintage R2R DACs? It is a by now ancient technology, really. I would "lol" if you think Ares is doing anything substantially different.

 

[Teroz]

"as the artists ment it to be played" there is no such thing. If you want that then get genelecs, sonys cheap studio headphones with PC and call it a day.

 

[voodooless]

then get genelecs

That sounds like a great idea

 

[helom]

What's funny about vintage R2R DACs? It is a by now ancient technology, really. I would "lol" if you think Ares is doing anything substantially different.

Go put a Sony CDP-101 on a test bench and then tell me it’s no different from an Ares. Geezus, some here are absolutely clueless.

 

[deprogrammed]

"as the artists ment it to be played" there is no such thing. If you want that then get genelecs, sonys cheap studio headphones with PC and call it a day.

Your hubris is a delight to behold. May work in your day to day but won't work here. But keep pounding at the wall.
We all know audio is magic./s

 

[BDWoody]

I have no problem confessing that I may be enjoying a form of “coloration” the Ares is producing.

Are you able to confess it may just be placebo?

Geezus, some here are absolutely clueless.

I know...but we have to be patient with many who don't get the whole evidence vs anecdote thing.

 

[Zensō]

I appreciate both objectivity and subjectivity. I don’t understand why there can’t be room for both here. I wouldn’t have bought an Ares if not for the mostly good measurements it produced for Amir and Stereophile. Same can be said for the D90 I owned. My initial reservations in trying an Ares was the likelihood it would have major flaws given the design choices. This forum helped put those concerns to rest.

Subjectively speaking, I enjoy it more than the D90, and by a landslide. It’s not as though I strain to hear the improvement, as was the case in my comparison of the Pro-Ject PreBox and Chord Qutest. I have no problem confessing that I may be enjoying a form of “coloration” the Ares is producing. But so what? I can’t share here that I actually prefer it to the D90? Maybe the large number of those who prefer this R2R DAC to a good delta-sigma suggests there are further experiments we should conduct on listener preferences, at least where DACs are concerned — that maybe someone should setup a large ABX trial between such DACs. Seems to me there are more questions that need answered when it comes to listener preferences in audio playback. After all, part of science is determining whether we’re asking the right questions, and continuing to ask questions.

You can share whatever you want, and plenty do, myself included. But when people start conflating personal preference with facts, as was the case with a number of commenters in this thread, much of what makes this forum unique gets undermined and diluted. I’d hate to see this place turn into another Head-Fi or SBAF.

 

[zepplock]

"as the artists ment it to be played" there is no such thing. If you want that then get genelecs, sonys cheap studio headphones with PC and call it a day.

I'm not sure if you are trolling or just can't read. Genelecs/sony headphones are not DACs.
Even if I consider your comment as serious, some artists (Frank Zappa for example) used to put amp/speakers in his liner notes for people to enjoy.

 

[gvl]

@amirm, how does the AP frequency response test work, does the analyzer simply capture the amplitude of the actual waveform or it applies a filter to isolate the fundamental first for each F point ?

 

[zepplock]

Have you heard an AresII?

How would you know what an artist intended unless you were in the booth at the recording session?

This notion that objectively perfect-measuring playback (keyword) gear reveals an artist’s true intent is flawed logic in so many ways that a drawn out explanation should not be required.

I would agree the D90 is more accurate on paper but ultimately, the goal is to enjoy the music. It’s hard for me to imagine any listener preferring the sound of the D90 over the Ares in extended listening.

It's not a flawed logic. DACs' only function is to convert digital signal back to analog as precise as possible. With many dacs, even $150 topping e30, it's entirely possible. Yet, you prefer a DAC that introduces high level of distortion, obviously detectable by your ears. I respect that you like it more. But why do you argue that it's a better piece of gear when it is obviously one that changes original sound intended by an artist. If artist wanted it to sound warmer with more distortion, he/she would just do it in the studio.

 

[AllenW]

I Didn't mean to start a war but you have to admit this is good fun.

 

[AllenW]

It's not a flawed logic. DACs' only function is to convert digital signal back to analog as precise as possible. With many dacs, even $150 topping e30, it's entirely possible. Yet, you prefer a DAC that introduces high level of distortion, obviously detectable by your ears. I respect that you like it more. But why do you argue that it's a better piece of gear when it is obviously one that changes original sound intended by an artist. If artist wanted it to sound warmer with more distortion, he/she would just do it in the studio.

I would argue that the music I listen to was mostly available on vinyl when it was made. This dac sounds more like that said vinyl than any other I've heard. So it's more than likely that's what those artists intended.

 

[Zensō]

I would argue that the music I listen to was mostly available on vinyl when it was made. This dac sounds more like that said vinyl than any other I've heard. So it's more than likely that's what those artists intended.

 

[zepplock]

I would argue that the music I listen to was mostly available on vinyl when it was made. This dac sounds more like that said vinyl than any other I've heard. So it's more than likely that's what those artists intended.

Pretty lame analogy. We are talking about digital audio. By your logic, only actual sound in the studio is true reference. In any case enjoy your distortion, nothing wrong with it.