Dan Clark E3 Headphone Review

[Chester]

But I find it courious how DMS, Resolve and Golden in their video rate the Expanse so poorly (Stealth a little better), while DMS loving E3.
Atleast they do explain why - the whole in situ perfomance vs measurements, shapes and sizes of human heads...

Still is courious that the headphone doesn't perform on 3 out of 3 people.

Spoiler: video

The headphones perform the same on all three heads, it’s the brains inside the heads that vary.

 

[Chagall]

The headphones perform the same on all three heads, it’s the brains inside the heads that vary.

I don't know, maybe Expanse just doesn't work for people with glasses.
You don't find it strange that 3 headphones that are tuned to Harman can end up being so different in terms of sound quality?...allegedly ofc

 

[staticV3]

The headphones perform the same on all three heads

Do you have in-situ measurements showing that? Or what is the basis of that claim?

 

[Grobbelboy]

I don't know, maybe Expanse just doesn't work for people with glasses.
You don't find it strange that 3 headphones that are tuned to Harman can end up being so different in terms of sound quality?...allegedly ofc

Not really. Especially Expanse has that excessive midbass bump that, combined with the slightly recessed upper treble, can make it sound quite bloated (or blunted, congested, lacking in “macro dynamics” according to people like DMS). The longer I listened to it the less sense that deliberately implemented bump made. But even Stealth has this problem with some tracks, overall just to a far lesser extent than the Expanse.

 

[cheapmessiah]

Not really. Especially Expanse has that excessive midbass bump that, combined with the slightly recessed upper treble, can make it sound quite bloated (or blunted, congested, lacking in “macro dynamics” according to people like DMS). The longer I listened to it the less sense that deliberately implemented bump made. But even Stealth has this problem with some tracks, overall just to a far lesser extent than the Expanse.

The bump on round the 100-200hz is the DCA signature, I believe Dan has explained a couple times here and there why they implement it on purpose, but yeah in expanse it is quite a pronounced bump.

 

[Chester]

I don't know, maybe Expanse just doesn't work for people with glasses.
You don't find it strange that 3 headphones that are tuned to Harman can end up being so different in terms of sound quality?...allegedly ofc

In my opinion, the most likely variable is the people. And if you change sound quality to response in your above message, we could both be right!

 

[Chagall]

Not really. Especially Expanse has that excessive midbass bump that, combined with the slightly recessed upper treble, can make it sound quite bloated (or blunted, congested, lacking in “macro dynamics” according to people like DMS). The longer I listened to it the less sense that deliberately implemented bump made. But even Stealth has this problem with some tracks, overall just to a far lesser extent than the Expanse.

Sure, there is a bump there, but I can't image it's the main reason for such a lack of performance (according to them). If it was, the solution would be just to EQ it out and problem solved, but it seems it's not that simple.

 

[Chester]

Do you have in-situ measurements showing that? Or what is the basis of that claim?

Because the headphones are manufactured within certain tolerances, so it is likely they perform the same (Similar is probably the better term).

 

[staticV3]

Because the headphones are manufactured within certain tolerances, so it is likely they perform the same (Similar is probably the better term).

Please read some of the preceding discussion.
This is not about manufacturing tolerances.

 

[Grobbelboy]

Sure, there is a bump there, but I can't image it's the main reason for such a lack of performance (according to them). If it was, the solution would be just to EQ it out and problem solved, but it seems it's not that simple.

I actually think that EQ'ing out the bump and applying a high shelf filter is practically 90% of the solution. The thing is that the HP.com guys only judge the out of the box performance and don't seem to apply EQ. It never comes up in any review I have ever seen at least.

 

[Chagall]

Because the headphones are manufactured within certain tolerances, so it is likely they perform the same (Similar is probably the better term).

That wasn't the point. They claim different response of the same (similar) headphone on their actual head.
For a smaller percentage of people to be affected sure, but I didn't image it would be for 3 out of 3.

Anyways @all, sorry for derailing the E3 review thread.

 

[Chester]

Please read some of the preceding discussion.
This is not about manufacturing tolerances.

We agree

 

[Chagall]

I actually think that EQ'ing out the bump and applying a high shelf filter is practically 90% of the solution.

I wholeheartedly hope you're right and it's just hyperbole from those guys. Cheers

 

[Robbo99999]

I don't know, maybe Expanse just doesn't work for people with glasses.
You don't find it strange that 3 headphones that are tuned to Harman can end up being so different in terms of sound quality?...allegedly ofc

Some of it could be unit to unit variation, but doubtful with DCA and them being top tier expensive headphones, I'd be very surprised if unit to unit variation was high. Different models of headphone might not couple properly on some people's heads - effects the bass. But also in my experience different models of headphones just sound a bit different even when EQ'd to the same curve, even beyond unit to unit variation & coupling bass issues. So I'm not that surprised that they could have different impressions of those 3 headphones, but even the measurements show they don't have the same frequency response, so that's also a simple answer to the reason as well! All those factors combined!
EDIT: and also people's impressions can vary from session to session & especially if not directly compared with the other headphones in the same session - so that's also a significant factor. As you can see there are a lot of reasons that can combine to make this occur!

 

[amirm]

The difference between E3 and Stealth is quite subtle. Anyone claiming they like E3 but not Stealth makes little sense technically.

 

[Chagall]

Some of it could be unit to unit variation, but doubtful with DCA and them being top tier expensive headphones, I'd be very surprised if unit to unit variation was high. Different models of headphone might not couple properly on some people's heads - effects the bass. But also in my experience different models of headphones just sound a bit different even when EQ'd to the same curve, even beyond unit to unit variation & coupling bass issues. So I'm not that surprised that they could have different impressions of those 3 headphones, but even the measurements show they don't have the same frequency response, so that's also a simple answer to the reason as well! All those factors combined!
EDIT: and also people's impressions can vary from session to session & especially if not directly compared with the other headphones in the same session - so that's also a significant factor. As you can see there are a lot of reasons that can combine to make this occur!

Yep, I agree - that's a lot of factors. Guess I was just taken aback by the sheer difference in how they ended up rating headphones that are well-tuned.

Also, maybe I'm overthinking it. It could be as simple as bias. Whoever listened to the headphones first, gave his impression to others and surely influenced them.
That plus all the factors @Robbo99999 mentioned could explain it.

 

[Natal]

Would it be possible to publish the magnetic field of the headphones measured by ASR? I know all the research has shown that headphone magnetic fields have no have harmful effects. But it is known headphones can vary widely with MF strength. But I'd just like to know this in selecting a phone. I've tried air tube phones and they are crap.

 

[amirm]

We would need some protocol for measuring that. I have a meter but where to hold it and how to standardize doing that is going to be very tough.

 

[IAtaman]

The difference between E3 and Stealth is quite subtle. Anyone claiming they like E3 but not Stealth makes little sense technically.

Main criticism directed to Stealth is that its FR is highly "load dependent" (my term) and although its tonality is quite good on the measurement rig, it struggles to achieve the same tonality on people's heads. And that is not only liked to seal. Measurements has been shared to show that, I am sure you have seen them too. Not sure why you are ignoring them, but maybe if you did not it would make some sense?

 

[amirm]

Main criticism directed to Stealth is that its FR is highly "load dependent" (my term) and although its tonality is quite good on the measurement rig, it struggles to achieve the same tonality on people's heads.

That should be identified as a fitment issue, not a general assessment of a headphone. What I read frequently is of latter nature.