Dan Clark Audio AEON RT Review (closed headphone)

[RHO]

Besides the question of sample variation which could play a role in your context, it isn't unheard of that headphones show a number of features at lower frequencies on ear simulators that don't occur to quite the same extent on real humans.
Ex : the ripples you see in the K550 measurements below 200Hz on ear simulators, vs. the rather different results on real humans in that article (even for the ones who got a good seal) : https://www.grasacoustics.com/files...mprovedMeasurementofLeakageEffects_Harman.pdf
Or the "pad bounce" effect here : https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/headphones/earpads/
- which you'll never observe to that extent on Rtings' real humans measurements for the same models.



As a starting point a more likely behaviour, as I suggested, could be related to the pads warming up and the headphones behaving in a non-linear way under pad compression (for reasons I'm not qualified to explain).
Some examples here : https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...er-hd560s-review-headphone.29603/post-1046142
A longer post that illustrates why, in my opinion, evaluating headphones' behaviour under pad compression, and not just breach of seal, can provide quite useful information :

Mark Levinson 5909, new ANC wireless cans that advertise use of the Harman curve

Forgot to give credit to @Sean Olive in his tweet here. I believe this is an actual production sample - it slightly differs how it measures from the production validation sample posted earlier. What @Sean Olive thinks about Brent Butterworth´s measurements at Soundstage Solo...

audiosciencereview.com

I'd love to measure with in-ear mics DCA headphones to be quite honest. They seem quite a bit different from other planars.

Yes, the difference in compression between the DCA pads when warm and the Hifiman pads when warm is significant. So warming up can have a bigger difference on the DCA then the Hifiman. Also I have the impression the Hifiman pads warm up faster/stabilize faster.

 

[Robbo99999]

From what I've heard instant temperature changes like that (from cold to warm) can blow up the driver? Because of moisture that can develop in the driver when coming from straight from a very cold environment (like outside) to a warm environment. So might want to be a bit careful with that if that's true.


https://gymhugz.com/blogs/fitness-and-tech-news/can-i-wear-headphones-when-it-s-cold-af-outside
"Condensation Kills Headphones
Water and electronics don't mix. Whilst low temperatures are unlikely to damage headphones, moving them from a colder temperature into a warmer one and then continuing to use them or turning them on too quickly can cause condensation to form inside the headphone – bad news for the drivers."

It's possible, depends how much humidity you have in your measuring room, and depends how cold you decide to chill the headphone.....if anyone did the experiment they'd just have to weigh up the risks and/or control them as best as possible, it's a risk not a certainty. I doubt anyone would do the experiments, but someone like @solderdude is one of the few with a measuring device & skills to do it.

 

[Daltong]

No, this is not the driver membrane. This looks like a thin dust cover to prevent dust or hair "contaminating" the membrane.

edit: fixed typo

Makes sense (especially since some kind of grille/circular perforation appears to be behind it, lol)

Anyways, as a point of curiosity, is the driver membrane even shown on the cutaway DC has on website?

 

[MKreroo]

I wish the headband folding mechanism is interchangeable between this and the 2

 

[solderdude]

in fact, as a simpler way of doing the temperature experiment, you'd just put the headphone in the freezer or something along with a temperature probe that is attached somewhere in the headphone to closely mimic driver temperature.

The driver isn't the problem. The article was about active headphones. When going from freezing temperatures to warm indoor conditions you get condensation on cold parts (think glasses !).
This moisture can kill electronics provided the moisture can even get in through small holes.

The drivers on passive headphones won't be killed.
Acc. to Rtings the space inside over ear headphones can warm up 5 to 10 degrees (depending on factors)
As most folks listen to headphones at room temperature chances are, with long listening sessions the driver membrane may increase a few degrees. I don't think this will change sonic properties much.
The effect will differ between drivers as well.

Maybe someday I may test the difference between room temp and at 30 degrees. I do not expect to see any (relevant) changes.

 

[Robbo99999]

The driver isn't the problem. The article was about active headphones. When going from freezing temperatures to warm indoor conditions you get condensation on cold parts (think glasses !).
This moisture can kill electronics provided the moisture can even get in through small holes.

The drivers on passive headphones won't be killed.
Acc. to Rtings the space inside over ear headphones can warm up 5 to 10 degrees (depending on factors)
As most folks listen to headphones at room temperature chances are, with long listening sessions the driver membrane may increase a few degrees. I don't think this will change sonic properties much.
The effect will differ between drivers as well.

Maybe someday I may test the difference between room temp and at 30 degrees. I do not expect to see any (relevant) changes.

Yeah, I'm talking passive headphones, I'm not interested in active headphones per se, just the temperature effect on driver performance due to my own observations/experiences, and thought that driver temperature could be one of the explaining factors. I agree that the most applicable temperature range to test would be room temperature & above as this would more closely mimic the actual usage conditions of the headphones and the resultant temperature ranges of the headphone. So you testing to 30 degrees seems reasonable, although if you say headphones can warm up by up to 10 degC, then it would probably be more applicable for you to test the headphones up to 35 degrees. Well, it would be super interesting if you ever did the experiment, be sure to post up here and somewhere prominent if you ever get to do the experiments - I knew you would have the ability to do them, hence me doing an @solderdude !

 

[IoYajGahju]

Makes sense (especially since some kind of grille/circular perforation appears to be behind it, lol)

Anyways, as a point of curiosity, is the driver membrane even shown on the cutaway DC has on website?

I think the perforated structures you see behind the white layer (which is indeed likely acoustically neutral dust guard) are powerful neodymium magnets and the black "lines" between them are mechanical spacers/supports so magnets don't clamp together.

Source:
Have broken apart a planar headphone before (not an Aeon fortunately, lol)

The membrane is not visible on 3d render from the website, I think. It's supposed to look something vaguely like this:

(not an Aeon membrane of course, but they all are supposed to be generally this kind of thing, complete with traces that match magnet placement/geometry)

 

[Rayman30]

Ended up sending back the Aeon RT, they are detailed and build very well, but their dreadfully boring. I sensed a real lack of body to the music, dry and lacking bass. I gave up on an audiophile work setup, its a unique set of variables that ultimately means the Airpods Max are the only solution. Oh well, I can invest more in my home setup

 

[Daltong]

I suspect "lack of bass" is lack of seal - I noticed a distinct drop in bass (like EQ 4 db or more down kind of drop) when earpads started falling apart, and everything is back to normal now that I've replaced them.

 

[RHO]

I suspect "lack of bass" is lack of seal - I noticed a distinct drop in bass (like EQ 4 db or more down kind of drop) when earpads started falling apart, and everything is back to normal now that I've replaced them.

Have you contacted DCA about the pads falling apart so soon? These are supposed to last for maybe 10 years.

 

[Daltong]

It is completely normal for pads to fall apart in months rather than years for me, almost every headphone I own suffers this (so I ordered spare ones way in advance for Aeon).
I mean I could have maybe gotten one spare pair out of DCA on warranty but it would be a cold comfort (since they too are doomed to same fate) and would take more time.

I must have a very corrosive sweat or something.

 

[RHO]

It is completely normal for pads to fall apart in months rather than years for me, almost every headphone I own suffers this (so I ordered spare ones way in advance for Aeon).
I mean I could have maybe gotten one spare pair out of DCA on warranty but it would be a cold comfort (since they too are doomed to same fate) and would take more time.

I must have a very corrosive sweat or something.

That's annoying. And expensive. These replacement pads aren't cheap. (compared to pads from other brands and models of headphones)

 

[Dan Clark]

Hi! Have been using these for a while (with EQ, Qudelix) and recently one of the earpads started disintegrating. For some reason this happens a lot to me with all kinds of headphones (maybe my sweat is super corrosive or something) so being "forewarned by prior experience" I already had spare earpads and proceeded to replace.

After removing the old earpad I took a better look (pic attached)

View attachment 191489

Do I understand correctly that the white thing with black stripes is raw exposed membrane (seems to roughly match cutaway from website in the technology section but also looks a bit different)?

Should I dread accidentally touching it with a finger as I replace the earpad ? cc @Dan Clark

It is a damping paper and is not at all sensitive to being touched unless you penetrate it with a sharp object.

 

[Daltong]

That's annoying. And expensive. These replacement pads aren't cheap. (compared to pads from other brands and models of headphones)

Yeah.
What my sweat does to tiny thin IEM wires and IEM inserts is worse tho (that's why I moved away from IEMs lol)

It is a damping paper and is not at all sensitive to being touched unless you penetrate it with a sharp object.

Thanks!

 

[Daltong]

Speaking of seal, I'd say that Aeons have a bit of a problem of "too little clamping force" sort for me, and am contemplating increasing it a little bit somehow (a music headband maybe haha)

 

[Dan Clark]

It is completely normal for pads to fall apart in months rather than years for me, almost every headphone I own suffers this (so I ordered spare ones way in advance for Aeon).
I mean I could have maybe gotten one spare pair out of DCA on warranty but it would be a cold comfort (since they too are doomed to same fate) and would take more time.

I must have a very corrosive sweat or something.

Corrosive sweat actually is a thing. I had the same issue with IEMs, if there was actually wire passing over my ear the housing would disintegrate in just months, the only solution with plastic tubing over the wire. I spoke with some folk at a large IEM manufacturer and they told me skin oil acidity varies widely and that's the issue. I don't have the same problem with pads, but YMMV. Most people the material lasts years, but for some oil just reacts. Best solution is to wide the pads with a microfiber cloth after use, don't use any cleaners etc. That should extend life for all your pads.

 

[IoYajGahju]

Speaking of seal, I'd say that Aeons have a bit of a problem of "too little clamping force" sort for me, and am contemplating increasing it a little bit somehow (a music headband maybe haha)

I'll second that. Aeons could really benefit from more clamping force. Not terribly much more mind you. BTW you can improve that a bit by increasing the grip strength of plastic parts that grip the metal wires of the size adjustment mechanism (the large screws also responsible for holding the leather flap in place)

 

[Phoney]

Update: I asked the guy who bought my RTs about his opinion on them. Guess what, he told me that so far he was happy but he really expected some more bass from a closed back planar like this, and that the bass was pretty weak. I didn't even talk about this with him before getting his opinion. Sounds familiar? I guess we didn't complete the 100 hours burn-in yet, which is advised in the manual.. That will surely fix any problem

 

[RHO]

Update: I asked the guy who bought my RTs about his opinion on them. Guess what, he told me that so far he was happy but he really expected some more bass from a closed back planar like this, and that the bass was pretty weak. I didn't even talk about this with him before getting his opinion. Sounds familiar?

Yes, seal issues or a starting ear-infection (like when I noticed a sudden decrease in bass performance ).
These are not bass-light with a good seal, powerd with an amp that can deliver the current needed. (it is a low impedance headphone with low sensitivity)

 

[Phoney]

Yes, seal issues or a starting ear-infection (like when I noticed a sudden decrease in bass performance ).
These are not bass-light with a good seal, powerd with an amp that can deliver the current needed. (it is a low impedance headphone with low sensitivity)

Yeah I talked about this earlier in this thread, I had the same experience as this guy who bought it from me and severel others, and nomatter what I did in the EQ I could not fix the problem. Kind of sad, because I went on a $230 dollar loss after trusting the objective measurments that was provided here. Bass is important to me and I could never imaginge a closed back planar that measured like this could ever give me problems with bass levels that would not be fixable with eq.. This is why some form of proper leakage effect testing matters. It's too relevant to leave out.