Cleaning up my system from Audiophile Snake Oil (Facepalm time)

[Trdat]

I know we are talking about audiophoolery here and my Furman M-10lxe is probably the only thing i bought that was potentially snake oil but at least I can plug all my power cords into one organised place. From my reading in forums I have understood that its snake oil not from any real data so i'll let others comment.

There are a two other products that I feel should get a mention as I was truly not happy with them and have an opinion. Please rebut me if I am wrong.

My PreSonus Audiobox Itwo's technical support was horrendous, when I told them that I was using it for REW they totally refused to give me any direction about the product. I mean refused to talk to me about simple things related to their product only because I was using it for a third party software. This to me is ridiculous. Firstly I bought their product for that purpose and secondly, the questions had nothing to do with REW it was on how to use their product at hand.

My SVS SB-1000, yes I understand it is an entry level sub and yes I understand that they are marketing it for a small sub but the sub is pretty awful. To me it seems they purposely design a horrible sub for entry level and then design better ones for there upper tier. All I did was put a cheap driver in a similar size box aimed for .707 QTC and I had a falter response, better group delay and significantly better transients and cost me less me than quarter the SVS sub. I am baffled with this one. How hard is it to put a driver in a closed box and make it measure well. I have to mention that their service is one of the best I have seen, plus I am sure they have top subs in their upper tier but technically I was fooled thinking that an entry level sub from SVS would give me something descent. The power of marketing....

 

[Blumlein 88]

Well sadly a lot of my older CDs are coated with crap like 'finyl' and traces of green pens on the edges. In 1990 or so I got audiophooled into these stupid CD treatment products. I was convinced that I could hear a difference until a friend of mine helped me carry out some blind tests. I guess that was the journey out of audiophool purgatory.a

Hey man, I still have a half used pen of CD Stoplight if you are interested. I don't feel so bad about using it.

Now the Armor All on the CD thing....yikes? It in time left blotches on the half dozen or so discs I put it on. I've gotten bit perfect rips from them so no worries. But pretty awful to have done that. Then again, I did fix some skipping scratched CD's using Meguir's plastic polish for motorcycle polycarbonate windscreens.

 

[JoachimStrobel]

There are companies that make cables for hospitals. For example Power cord with strong insulation, good connectors to power life saving Maschinerie. And interconnects that transfer data into ECGs etc
Now, that is the real cable industry making stuff that has a proven benefit. And Hospitals do not waste money. But of course only in the reliability and sturdiness. That would work for Audio too, but nothing more.

 

[Juhazi]

Ehem guys, how do you cope with selling those audiophile jewels? Cognitive dissonance arising?
Do you advertize them with same words as manufacturer, and how about pricing?

"El Cheapo" brand cables would be my choice!

 

[BDWoody]

Well sadly a lot of my older CDs are coated with crap like 'finyl' and traces of green pens on the edges. In 1990 or so I got audiophooled into these stupid CD treatment products. I was convinced that I could hear a difference until a friend of mine helped me carry out some blind tests. I guess that was the journey out of audiophool purgatory.a

That's not going to make you very popular out there in audiophilia nervosa land...
But it is most welcome here.
Glad to have you!

 

[VintageFlanker]

how do you cope with selling those audiophile jewels? Cognitive dissonance arising?
Do you advertize them with same words as manufacturer, and how about pricing?

Honestly, as a non-professional seller, I do use buzz words straight from the manufacturer.
If they ask me if I hear a difference, my answer is, honestly: No.
Then, they think I should be some kind of deaf and that should be the reason I have no use for these cables...
If Audiophiles are fine with that and happy with their expectation bias...I see no reason to not take their money.

My prices are usually 60% of the brand new cost.

 

[john5220]

This still doesn't really help much because Head Fi website is booming with tons of propaganda and misinformation that scam people into buying nonsense when the limit of human hearing is already less than $200 which can get you both a DAC and AMP for that price

They actually banned both NwAvGuy and Amir from head fi for providing scientific facts.

 

[jparvio]

I put most of my expensive audiophile cables in the recycling dumpster.
Including some audioquest caldera speaker cables .

I did not want to continue the fraud by selling them on the used market, I decided to take the loss myself as cost of tuition.

Please explain why You stopped using them after having spend a lot of money? So you actually bought again something to replace the expensive ones? Makes no sense whatsoever. If the expensive ones did not sound WORSE, why get rid of them? And finally, to trash them? Really? I hope they were at least recycled for all than copper´s sake.

 

[Digital_Thor]

I had a set of Dali Evidence 870, with a combo of NAD S500I and S300 intergrated. And of course I needed cables. So I bought a used set og Taralabs Air 2 XLR and Taralabs biwire with those special banana plugs with small pointy screws that keeps things in place.
Everything sold and then I started building active speakers. The old Taralabs RSC 1000 biwire, I simply cut to pieces and use inside my speakers, cause it fitted well with 4 separate conductors in my build and no one would pay anything for them anyway.
Everything I use now is made of standard balanced studio cables from Thomann and Neutric XLR and Speakon - works fantastic compared to ****** banana plugs.
Great thing about active systems, is that the cables from the amps to the speakers can be kept short and the signal from my pre to the amps are balanced. No noise, hum or the like - it just.... kinda work

I have the pen for CD's somewhere too.... and the "The Exorcist" from Gryphon - that supposedly should... and I quote from the box: "Dispels magnetic build-up in sensitive audio circuits"

 

[Hypnotoad]

It's getting crazier, I am seeing used vintage Black Gate electrolytic caps for sale at $300.00 a pop. I'm also seeing people buying Isolation Transformers, which is the same voltage in and out, correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't my amp have a transformer in it already that does the same thing? The MMTS (More Money Than Sense) crowd keeps this sort of thing happening.
.

 

[Vintage57]

My speaker cables are “microphone cable“ XLR for active speaker. Amazon, $12.00 for 25 ft an $10.00 for a 10 ft. Awesome SQ.

 

[thefsb]

Honestly, as a non-professional seller, I do use buzz words straight from the manufacturer.
If they ask me if I hear a difference, my answer is, honestly: No.
Then, they think I should be some kind of deaf and that should be the reason I have no use for these cables...
If Audiophiles are fine with that and happy with their expectation bias...I see no reason to not take their money.

My prices are usually 60% of the brand new cost.

Magic works fairly well. Placebo is the most effective prescription in psychopharmacology. People don't just want or need their supernatural beliefs, they are quite literally rewarded by them. If you have surplus cash for the pleasures in your life then go ahead and exchange them (there's just numbers at that point) for whatever works for you, be it travel, a fancy car, oriental rug, philanthropy, a pilgrimage or meditation retreat, community maintenance projects, Scientology, audio cables, ...

I have my arguments with some of the people and organizations competing to unburden you of your surplus cash, and in some cases I think there's a role for government to protect consumers, but for the most part I think it's fine. Consenting adults in a free society and all that.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

My SVS SB-1000, yes I understand it is an entry level sub and yes I understand that they are marketing it for a small sub but the sub is pretty awful. To me it seems they purposely design a horrible sub for entry level and then design better ones for there upper tier. All I did was put a cheap driver in a similar size box aimed for .707 QTC and I had a falter response, better group delay and significantly better transients and cost me less me than quarter the SVS sub. I am baffled with this one. How hard is it to put a driver in a closed box and make it measure well. I have to mention that their service is one of the best I have seen, plus I am sure they have top subs in their upper tier but technically I was fooled thinking that an entry level sub from SVS would give me something descent. The power of marketing....

This is wrong. Perhaps you got a bad unit or set it up wrong, but this is a great measuring, well-reviewed sub for the price. I had one for a long time and properly set up it sounded and measured extremely well.

 

[Speedskater]

My speaker cables are “microphone cable“ XLR for active speaker.

Good for active speakers, not so good for passive speakers.
Note that 'microphone cables' have added features that are not necessary for hi-fi cables:
1) flexible 2) low handling noise 3) robust construction

 

[LTig]

Good for active speakers, not so good for passive speakers.

Correct.

Note that 'microphone cables' have added features that are not necessary for hi-fi cables:
1) flexible 2) low handling noise 3) robust construction

(1) and (3) are welcome features even in a home environment.

 

[watchnerd]

I recently bought a tube pin straightener:

Note:

I'm not claiming it's snake oil.

It really does straight whacked tube pins, which are common enough on NOS tubes.

I've had a few tubes I couldn't even get into a socket without using it. So it does what it says on the tin and isn't relying on magical claims.

But...

At some level it's like buying a better bong.

Sure, the better bong may let you make giant rastafari-level bong rips that leave giant clouds of dank sufficient to give a contact high to your dog, and thus do what it says on the tin, but do you really need something that lets you increase your weed habit to that level?

A tube straightener may be an enabler for NOS tube addicts.

 

[dgkula]

My SVS SB-1000, yes I understand it is an entry level sub and yes I understand that they are marketing it for a small sub but the sub is pretty awful. To me it seems they purposely design a horrible sub for entry level and then design better ones for there upper tier. All I did was put a cheap driver in a similar size box aimed for .707 QTC and I had a falter response, better group delay and significantly better transients and cost me less me than quarter the SVS sub. I am baffled with this one. How hard is it to put a driver in a closed box and make it measure well. I have to mention that their service is one of the best I have seen, plus I am sure they have top subs in their upper tier but technically I was fooled thinking that an entry level sub from SVS would give me something descent. The power of marketing....

IMHO subwoofers are massively overpriced. I built 3 using Parts Express kits with UM15-22 and flatpacks last year and was blown away at what I was able to build compared to subs like SVS. They must make OK margins but also spend a TON on marketing & advertising!

 

[Trdat]

IMHO subwoofers are massively overpriced. I built 3 using Parts Express kits with UM15-22 and flatpacks last year and was blown away at what I was able to build compared to subs like SVS. They must make OK margins but also spend a TON on marketing & advertising!

Totally with you DGkula!

The comment earlier by Rusty which mentions that it measures well and that I've got it wrong about the sub, look Ill be honest I am not a fan of arguing especially because I am not a so called expert yet. But I can tell you I measured it myself (I am aware that the room has its influence) but there was a huge bump at near the impedance peak with the lower frequencies significantly exaggerated bass, which could be good when listening to say rock(heavy drums)perhaps, but overall muddies the whole experience. The boomines was no just from the horrible QTC but also from the huge hump in the lower frequencies. I measured the impulse response to get an idea how the transients to find some evidence in terms of my suspicion of the QTC and measured up against my basic .7 QTC aligned sealed sub and it was significantly worse. To me if you rely on your marketing and design subs that are good only at the top tier of your range then its a snake oil company. How hard is it to design a descent sub, I did the same put a Dayton woofer worth $70 with 22mm MDF sealed it of to a .7 and a $200 plate amp and it blows the SVS by a million miles without a word of exaggeration.

 

[Mnyb]

Please explain why You stopped using them after having spend a lot of money? So you actually bought again something to replace the expensive ones? Makes no sense whatsoever. If the expensive ones did not sound WORSE, why get rid of them? And finally, to trash them? Really? I hope they were at least recycled for all than copper´s sake.

I have years before gone over to active speakers with a digital controll unit so all of it have been sitting in my closet for a while . I had party come to my senses when geting my kit so my current gear is conected by generic hdmi spdif and cheap cat 5.
So it thougth it better to recycle the woo cables for copper ( they went into the cable recycle bin ).
Than make secondary profit on the snake oil and continue the fraud to sell them.

And as a card carrying audiophile I really had different cables of all sorts sitting in my closet as I had upgraded

It would have been hard to do . Lying trough my teeth and smile or collapse laughing while selling them
And it simple was a whole lot of assorted cables and the process of selling different bits to different audiophools and slowly getting their hard earned cash etc , I thought at the time that it was a bad thing to do . I had to place adds and spend time actually advertising and spread the word on how good these things are to be able to sell them I could not really do that so decided to take the loss and just make them go away ,

 

[Trdat]

I actually would like this post to continue and feel this is a great thread for us to understand better how companies work and the way they treat clients. Of course, it doesn't give us the right to bag out brands but in saying that no doubt bad experiences should be expressed so we can choose our products more carefully. I also understand there are one off's and we should try and look at bad experiences as objectively as possible. If a company strives for customer service they should be commended so perhaps this thread or another be to mention great companies that really care.

My continued experience with Presonus has led me to take it a little personally which I admit is wrong but people need to know that they do not care. Below average products with marketing hype and no customer service or technical support in my eyes is considered a company that we should look out for. Their attitude in general with their products being used with 3rd party software or hardware is like buying speakers and the speaker company refuses to provide technical support unless you pair it with same branded amplifiers. I will not get into general horrible technical support and lack of care of how the product is running, but I will say that fobbing me off to the my local dealer without any support after a totally faulty product is just not on. Okay, lets say the product was faulty, it happens but if they had diagnosed the problem early on I would might of had a better experience. Though they refused to help cause I wasn't using it with their software, after figuring out that the product was faulty they do nothing.

Anyway, I will just throw out the item. And double check if other companies provide better service before i buy an external soundcard.

My point is that to me this falls under the category of snake oil. To me snake oil isn't just pseudo science its trickery.... Marketing hype with no costumer service and no technical support and the total lack of care to customers needs and concerns.

I had a few words about SVS in my previous comment and although I maintain that there low end sub is a joke their customer service is at the top of their game and they need to be commended. They actually do care for there customers even if i think there product is below par. I don't doubt you get what you pay for and they do design top subs in there range. I am really impressed with the way they treat they customers I have felt it first hand.