Chord DAVE Review (DAC & HP Amp)

[Robbo99999]

Hi, I’m a person that likes to read ASR reviews and even sometimes act on it. My speakers are Neumann KH420’s because the review on this site was so good. And because I could purchase them relatively cheap in The Netherlands to be honest.

That meant that, to have a complete high end set, I only needed a stellar dac and a preamp. Well, almost all reviews nowadays are about dacs, mostly Chinese stuff, so that should be no problem.

Ofcourse I started with some Toppings, ending with a D90se dac and PRE90 plus extension box. First impression was great but after a few weeks I started to watch series on Netflix instead of listening to music. After realizing that I decided to sell the Topping stuff and try an RME ADI-2 FS dac. That did help, the RME seems to sounds a bit more natural (Amir will certainly admit that) and the featureset is enormous. But I wanted something more definitive, end game speakers costing 7500 euros deserve an end game streamer, dac and pre-amplifier. But hey, didn’t the Topping and RME, directly connected to my Roon server, have it all?

I started experimenting again. My first step was to buy the brand new Naim NSC 222 streamer because I love the Naim sound. That sound was great (I liked it more than the RME), the looks good and the upgrade possibilities endless. So that seemed a very good step for the future. But after 6 months, when the upgrade virus always comes, I realised that it would be very expensive. Especially for someone that reaches the age of 70 this month. The kids would not like the idea of an old father burning their future money. So I had to do something else but I didn’t have a clue what.

I went to my local hifi dealer and after hearing me he said: ‘Try a Chord Dave, that’s an endgame dac, maybe you like that’. And the small box with a dac of which I knew it was completely sabled down landed on my electric bike, I drove home, I connected everything and I never stopped listening since. My system is now a hybrid collection of ASR loved and ASR hated stuff.

So I’m someone who thinks that the reviews of ASR are very useful but I do not completely shut off the impressions of the much more complicated and very subjective but sometimes surprisingly real world.

This post is very "non-ASR" in character. It's the sort of approach to hifi that strays away from the logical mindset here on ASR, and as such is a situation where you're on a fool's errand with your time & money. Of course there's nothing inherently wrong with the Chord Dave apart from it's ridiculous price & ridiculous assertions, but it measures fine. Part of me thinks you didn't buy the Chord Dave anyway, and are just bored & whipping up some drama, but it doesn't really matter.

 

[YSC]

This post is very "non-ASR" in character. It's the sort of approach to hifi that strays away from the logical mindset here on ASR, and as such is a situation where you're on a fool's errand with your time & money. Of course there's nothing inherently wrong with the Chord Dave apart from it's ridiculous price & ridiculous assertions, but it measures fine. Part of me thinks you didn't buy the Chord Dave anyway, and are just bored & whipping up some drama, but it doesn't really matter.

I believe it's more of a good old geekiness of GAS in full action, you know, when you decide to spend a fortune on some hobby thing, "REASONS" are always needed not much guys will do like me: I just pay for something audibly transparent, and "I just love the R2R gimmick and chassis look~~~~" being the reason

 

[dtaylo1066]

I believe it's more of a good old geekiness of GAS in full action, you know, when you decide to spend a fortune on some hobby thing, "REASONS" are always needed not much guys will do like me: I just pay for something audibly transparent, and "I just love the R2R gimmick and chassis look~~~~" being the reason

Yes his post is contrary to the ASR raison d’être but, in reality, it serves no purpose to mock the person or joke about subjectivism in general. Sure we can have a laugh, of which I am sure I am guilty of from time to time, but the end result ironically can be perceived as a conceit of superiority for ASR, which is not a goal. If you ascribe to a belief in science in audio, then it is probably best if we do not attempt to psychoanalyze or critique a person of whom we know nothing about but a single post on ASR and a purchase he has made.

 

[Jimster480]

Ofcourse. And with 2 posts you make a strong point!

The point is pretty strong because at the end of the day; there isn't really a way to tell between a Dave and a high end DAC from another brand with similar performance.
Your journey is the same as many other peoples where you think that "the more I spend the better it sounds".
If you have the disposable income and you wanted to dispose of it in this way then sure, its your own money and your own life. Nobody is worried about that. To suggest anything else though is not very constructive to say the least.
Also not really sure what is driving this DAC you bought because you didn't mention that.

well, considering that the absolute accuracy of the Dave is in the great category, just not as "perfect" as the Toppings objectively, so it's still a objectively excellent system anyway, and psychoacoustics is part of what we enjoys, so no harm when you can spare that cash to enjoy, personally I am doing similar but at a much lower cost, getting 8030Cs and 7040A with PC source so REW and EQAPO did the correction. then dac I willingly pay like $1200 for the Holoaudio Spring 2 dac, a R2R which objectively isn't as great, not actually cheap at any sense, but transparent enough with ~108 SINAD at worst, so far no complain at all, and the look did add in it's enjoyment, though in my mind I know it likely don't sound any different than a 1/5 priced topping, but who cares how I spend my own money on

That is quite a bit of $ for a DAC without so much performance.
Although 108 SINAD should be FINE for everyday.... I can tell you my original DX7 has ~108 SINAD and my current D70S has like 118-119. I cannot tell the difference no matter how much testing I do. Simply put; music rarely requires such high performance and headphones / speakers don't have that much performance either.

 

[HuubFranssen]

The Naim is a combined streamer, DAC and preamp, isn't it? The Dave lacks a streamer element so what drives it?

(Of course, everyone will ask if you did any double-blind tests when judging SQ.)

Well until now no one mentioned the B word. For a normal consumer blind tests are not so easy but in the past I participated in several ABX tests. We never ever could prove any difference between anything. We compared amplifiers, cd-players, cables… One time I bought one of the 2 amplifiers we wanted to blind test myself so I could get used to the sound and let him warm up a little, the Sony TA-n271 (or something) was brand new, cheap, 180 euro. I could not get used to the lifeless sound so I was convinced that the 8000 euro competitor would be considered much better in the ABX. But no. When I got home after the ABX with my amplifier for a moment I thought I had a piece of cheap high end. After connecting the Sony everything fell back at his place. No high end, lifeless rubbish. I could sell him easily ofcourse, for years a lot of people on that forum believed that the Sony sounded like a 8000 euro amplifier.

 

[levimax]

for years a lot of people on that forum believed that the Sony sounded like a 8000 euro amplifier.

Seems like the ABX proved they do sound the same.

 

[HuubFranssen]

This post is very "non-ASR" in character. It's the sort of approach to hifi that strays away from the logical mindset here on ASR, and as such is a situation where you're on a fool's errand with your time & money. Of course there's nothing inherently wrong with the Chord Dave apart from it's ridiculous price & ridiculous assertions, but it measures fine. Part of me thinks you didn't buy the Chord Dave anyway, and are just bored & whipping up some drama, but it doesn't really matter.

Your post is typical ASR. The assumption that I didn’t buy the Dave is hilarious but also insulting.

 

[pablolie]

ASR is just a very informative forum. Its mission isn't to make people buy specific equipment or to get people to think in a uniform way.

I love getting measurement information here. It doesn't at all mean I will only buy ASR-recomended gear, and most certainly doesn't mean I'll ever be SINAD obsessed to the last 0.25dB.

There is no "ASR correct" way to post, opine or buy. The original post about the Chord purchase has nothing trollish to it, it is a personal decision and whatever people pick with their $ is fine. It's just when they claim it's "clearly, evidently BETTER" that one could counter such statements. Is the Chord Dave expensive for the average person? Surely. Does it measure better than top-performing equipment? No, but no one in here claimed it did. Does it measure competently when used in certain ways? Yes. Does it offer a ton of ways to play around and explore a zillion filter settings to achieve a certain effect? Sure does.

 

[Purité Audio]

Does it?
Keith

 

[majingotan]

Well until now no one mentioned the B word. For a normal consumer blind tests are not so easy but in the past I participated in several ABX tests. We never ever could prove any difference between anything. We compared amplifiers, cd-players, cables… One time I bought one of the 2 amplifiers we wanted to blind test myself so I could get used to the sound and let him warm up a little, the Sony TA-n271 (or something) was brand new, cheap, 180 euro. I could not get used to the lifeless sound so I was convinced that the 8000 euro competitor would be considered much better in the ABX. But no. When I got home after the ABX with my amplifier for a moment I thought I had a piece of cheap high end. After connecting the Sony everything fell back at his place. No high end, lifeless rubbish. I could sell him easily ofcourse, for years a lot of people on that forum believed that the Sony sounded like a 8000 euro amplifier.

I'm willing to bet that if DAVE and D90SE is volume matched to +0.001V and hidden completely from sight, and I randomly switch (or not) the DACs, I guarantee you won't be able to tell whether DAVE or D90SE is currently playing better than random guessing. Sighted listening and knowing that a flagship DAC (audio nervosa) is on the chain is one heck of a drug

 

[pablolie]

I'm willing to bet that if DAVE and D90SE is volume matched to +0.001V and hidden completely from sight, and I randomly switch (or not) the DACs, I guarantee you won't be able to tell whether DAVE or D90SE is currently playing better than random guessing. Sighted listening and knowing that a flagship DAC (audio nervosa) is on the chain is one heck of a drug

While that is true, what is wrong with preferring a component that offers tactile or visual enjoyment? To me, design and craftsmanship are important. Personally, the design of the Chord line is not appealing to me, but I can totally accept it may do for others.
One thing I find funny on ASR is that those advocating double-blind testing sometimes are the ones that -looking at their signatures- "upgraded" from a DAC with a SINAD or 119dB to 121dB or such, which most certainly wasn't based on a rational decision or blind testing. I am not ashamed to say that I'll pick the better looking component (to me, and some features are key as well) every time, unless performance blatanly blows (which with reputable components -except possible speakers- is rather unusual these days).

 

[majingotan]

While that is true, what is wrong with preferring a component that offers tactile or visual enjoyment? To me, design and craftsmanship are important. Personally, the design of the Chord line is not appealing to me, but I can totally accept it may do for others.
One thing I find funny on ASR is that those advocating double-blind testing sometimes are the ones that -looking at their signatures- "upgraded" from a DAC with a SINAD or 119dB to 121dB or such, which most certainly wasn't based on a rational decision or blind testing. I am not ashamed to say that I'll pick the better looking component (to me, and some features are key as well) every time, unless performance blatanly blows (which with reputable components -except possible speakers- is rather unusual these days).

I agree. I like the nostalgia of glowing tubes (5% THD+N from a simple SET circuit) and collecting unique DAC designs (hence why I have 6 DAC chips in 6 different DAC chassis/implementation) since they do add a sizable amount perceived value to my listening pleasure. I just don't claim that I can perceive any differences on my DACs with different DAC chips when blind and precisely volume matched tested

 

[dtaylo1066]

If he enjoys the Dave unit, is happy that he bought it and, for whatever reason, he determines he prefers it over other DACs, that is his choice. And good for him. I have no right to tell him or anyone what they should or should not enjoy in audio, or how they should spend their money. Consumerism is about choice. ASR provides measurable, objective data on audio components from which one can base a decision to make certain purchase choices. The final choice of what DAC to buy is up to the consumer. The Dave DAC meets audio measurement thresholds that most here agree are transparent. Value is in the eye and wallet of the buyer.

 

[ahofer]

Who is arguing that people can't buy what they want? I keep reading allusions and suggestions that it is happening, but I never SEE it first hand. Could someone point me to an example?

 

[amirm]

I went to my local hifi dealer and after hearing me he said: ‘Try a Chord Dave, that’s an endgame dac, maybe you like that’. And the small box with a dac of which I knew it was completely sabled down landed on my electric bike, I drove home, I connected everything and I never stopped listening since. My system is now a hybrid collection of ASR loved and ASR hated stuff.

Be careful there. As I noted in the review, Chord DAVE as is typical of some of their other products, has non-standard output voltages. In this case, both XLR and RCA are much higher in level than your topping and 90% of DACs I test. This will make the DAC sound much higher resolution as it is playing at higher volume level. Adjust the volume back down and any perceived audible difference will vanish. I know, because I have been victim of this countless times.

Above may be the key to a lot of success of DAC products, making theirs stand out in any ad-hoc AB test.

BTW, you don't have to run the comparison blind. Just match the outputs and then listen.

 

[dtaylo1066]

Who is arguing that people can't buy what they want? I keep reading allusions and suggestions that it is happening, but I never SEE it first hand. Could someone point me to an example?

Perhaps not, but being told one is a fool for buying, or insinuating that they did not actually buy and are just saying so to raise some B.S. It's useless and unnecessary -- basically rude and uncivil behavior. But that is the acceptable norm these days, I guess.

I am happy to read or engage in a polemic about audio, but I see no need in doing so to imply one is a fool or an idiot for making a particular purchase.

You can tell me you purchased a certain car for X amount of $, and I can contend with facts or opinion why you should have considered another car, but I'm not going to basically imply you're a fool for buying that car.

 

[voodooless]

Perhaps not, but being told one is a fool for buying, or insinuating that they did not actually buy and are just saying so to raise some B.S.

What do you call being hoodwinked into buying an expensive product that performs indistinguishable in a controlled test from one costing an order of magnitude less?

You can tell me you purchased a certain car for X amount of $, and I can contend with facts or opinion why you should have considered another car, but I'm not going to basically imply you're a fool for buying that car.

That comparison does not work. The two cars would need to drive and feel exactly the same, but look totally different. This is impossible in practice.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Buy whatever you want regardless how sensible. I do it all the time.

But making that buying decision based on erroneous sighted non level-matched listening impressions is fooling yourself.

And sure you also have the right to fool yourself.

 

[Geert]

It's just when they claim it's "clearly, evidently BETTER" that one could counter such statements.

You missed the statements about the sound of the Topping, RME and Naim DAC's?

 

[Mart68]

Well until now no one mentioned the B word. For a normal consumer blind tests are not so easy but in the past I participated in several ABX tests. We never ever could prove any difference between anything. We compared amplifiers, cd-players, cables… One time I bought one of the 2 amplifiers we wanted to blind test myself so I could get used to the sound and let him warm up a little, the Sony TA-n271 (or something) was brand new, cheap, 180 euro. I could not get used to the lifeless sound so I was convinced that the 8000 euro competitor would be considered much better in the ABX. But no. When I got home after the ABX with my amplifier for a moment I thought I had a piece of cheap high end. After connecting the Sony everything fell back at his place. No high end, lifeless rubbish. I could sell him easily ofcourse, for years a lot of people on that forum believed that the Sony sounded like a 8000 euro amplifier.

most likely explanation is that the Sony was fine with the load presented by the speakers in the ABX but not with the load presented by your own speakers. One problem with cheap amps they are not load agnostic. No mystery there.

Price is really no guide to buying an amp you have to look at measurements to see how capable it is. Lots of expensive tat out there with great back stories and average engineering.

You could not tell the difference with cd players, cables because there is no difference with most of them, that isn't a surprise either.