Chord DAVE Review (DAC & HP Amp)

[DSJR]

In short, I suspect you mean the Linn-Naim "axis" vs the BBC-derived (or at least influenced) mainstream.

We've come a loooong way since those times - thank the lord!

 

[AudioSceptic]

I think that traditional BBC sound is because they brickwalled everything at 15khz?

I would love to own a fancy British loudspeaker but something like harbeth is Just out of my price range considering the performance, even if it's made in the UK.

Not a fan of chord. I hate the design.. never seen anything that ugly.

I'm not sure about that. Although there was effectively a 15 kHz cut-off because of the need to remove the 19 kHz pilot tone on FM stereo radio, I doubt that most people with the money to buy "proper" speakers can hear past 15 kHz anyway. The difference in sound is mainly well below that, such as the "BBC dip".

 

[DanielT]

.. Although there was effectively a 15 kHz cut-off because of the need to remove the 19 kHz pilot tone on FM stereo radio, I doubt that most people with the money to buy "proper" speakers can hear past 15 kHz anyway.

Same principle for FM radio in Sweden, also in Germany according to Tomtoo.
Is it perhaps some world standard, cut-off at 15 kHz? That 19kHz pilot tone should be the same, I'd guess.

 

[DSJR]

I'm not sure about that. Although there was effectively a 15 kHz cut-off because of the need to remove the 19 kHz pilot tone on FM stereo radio, I doubt that most people with the money to buy "proper" speakers can hear past 15 kHz anyway. The difference in sound is mainly well below that, such as the "BBC dip".

The Spendor BC1 and basic follow-on sibling LS3/6 from 1973 or so, used the 'super tweeter' to allow engineers to better hear line whistle and so on.

Interesting that the BBC bought far more BC1's - a few hundred pairs I gather and only a tiny number of their official version, which was similar but with the Celestion HF2000 'super tweeter' and a level matching auto-transformer on the input, which further increased the bass distortion and lost even more amp control (used domestically, vinyl sources of the time plus more powerful amps were a death-threat to the frail original bass drivers which were very easily 'popped').

P.S. The BC1 (and LS5/5 as I've read it) DID NOT have the so-called BBC Dip, the BC1 actually measuring quite flat in the lower kHz region. My BC2's with larger diameter voice coil (no pole extension on this basic driver, used in the SA2 and as mid driver in the BC3) do go a bit awry at 1.5 to 2 kHz due to phase issues without the longer pole extension added in the subsequent SP1 driver derivative. HiFi Choice measured many BC1 samples during the 70's and 80's and the main difference as time went on was improvements in power handling and low bass distortion

The 4kHz dip (quite bad in the top plot on tweeter axis) disappears five degrees above axis as you can see and this is perfect when using the low trolley stands that most were sold with. I should add that in the late 60's and early 70's, the BBC did much work on dispersion patterns, but not sure how much of this is relevant today as things have moved on so much with CAD to help and so on.

Sincere apologies for this thread drift. I suspect all thoughts on the Dave are now exhausted.

 

[AudioSceptic]

Same principle for FM radio in Sweden, also in Germany according to Tomtoo.
Is it perhaps some world standard, cut-off at 15 kHz? That 19kHz pilot tone should be the same, I'd guess.

Yes, I think so.

 

[AudioSceptic]

The Spendor BC1 and basic follow-on sibling LS3/6 from 1973 or so, used the 'super tweeter' to allow engineers to better hear line whistle and so on.

Interesting that the BBC bought far more BC1's - a few hundred pairs I gather and only a tiny number of their official version, which was similar but with the Celestion HF2000 'super tweeter' and a level matching auto-transformer on the input, which further increased the bass distortion and lost even more amp control (used domestically, vinyl sources of the time plus more powerful amps were a death-threat to the frail original bass drivers which were very easily 'popped').

P.S. The BC1 (and LS5/5 as I've read it) DID NOT have the so-called BBC Dip, the BC1 actually measuring quite flat in the lower kHz region. My BC2's with larger diameter voice coil (no pole extension on this basic driver, used in the SA2 and as mid driver in the BC3) do go a bit awry at 1.5 to 2 kHz due to phase issues without the longer pole extension added in the subsequent SP1 driver derivative. HiFi Choice measured many BC1 samples during the 70's and 80's and the main difference as time went on was improvements in power handling and low bass distortion

View attachment 279805
The 4kHz dip (quite bad in the top plot on tweeter axis) disappears five degrees above axis as you can see and this is perfect when using the low trolley stands that most were sold with. I should add that in the late 60's and early 70's, the BBC did much work on dispersion patterns, but not sure how much of this is relevant today as things have moved on so much with CAD to help and so on.

Sincere apologies for this thread drift. I suspect all thoughts on the Dave are now exhausted.

Just one more OT reply? The other version of the story is that by having 3 drivers the BC1 could be sold as "professional" and avoid Purchase Tax. (I still have my BC1s, bought in 1976.)

 

[Jomungur]

Hi, I'm the person who sent the DAVE in for review. Just wanted to update what happened since then.

1. Even after the review, it sounded fine to me. I liked it. Not saying there's anything special about it, it worked fine. I couldn't hear the channel balance distortion Amir picked up in his review.

2. Sadly, the Topping DAC I had purchased to compare died a few months afterward, so couldn't use that for comparison. No complaints from my end, I mean it is relatively cheap so I'm not going to complain about quality control.

3. I ended up selling the DAVE and making a decent profit on it from the cost. There's no end of demand for that thing. Rather than point to this thread, I just waited a year and then put it on the market. Got offers very fast at the price I put it up for.

4. Anyway, thanks to Amir for all the education. My only suggestion to anyone reading this thread is just read the review and make up your own mind. That's his point, right? Argue if you enjoy it but I wouldn't if you get emotional about it like I do sometimes.

5. The one thing that is amazing I got from it is to learn to really work with DSP. Instead of spending lots of money on things like DACs, I got a much better investment hiring professional audio engineers who took me and my kids to their studios and show all the wizardry that can be done.

6. If you think that's too expensive, consider something else. I am from Nashville originally. So many great recording studios there. However, young musicians who no longer have the professional producers from the older era can't afford the time. So they crowdfund it basically. Try something looking for something like that, it can be surprisingly affordable and you get to see how professionals record music in a live studio. I guarantee the equipment is better than anything you can buy personally if you're curious about the sonics. And you'll see how much DSP is done- sometimes on the fly between the engineers and the artists during the recording- and how amazing it is.

Have fun listening to music!

 

[MAB]

5. The one thing that is amazing I got from it is to learn to really work with DSP.

This is awesome. DSP is becoming really accessible. Thanks for sharing your experience and your DAC!

 

[Arnas]

Hi, I'm the person who sent the DAVE in for review. Just wanted to update what happened since then.

1. Even after the review, it sounded fine to me. I liked it. Not saying there's anything special about it, it worked fine. I couldn't hear the channel balance distortion Amir picked up in his review.

2. Sadly, the Topping DAC I had purchased to compare died a few months afterward, so couldn't use that for comparison. No complaints from my end, I mean it is relatively cheap so I'm not going to complain about quality control.

3. I ended up selling the DAVE and making a decent profit on it from the cost. There's no end of demand for that thing. Rather than point to this thread, I just waited a year and then put it on the market. Got offers very fast at the price I put it up for.

4. Anyway, thanks to Amir for all the education. My only suggestion to anyone reading this thread is just read the review and make up your own mind. That's his point, right? Argue if you enjoy it but I wouldn't if you get emotional about it like I do sometimes.

5. The one thing that is amazing I got from it is to learn to really work with DSP. Instead of spending lots of money on things like DACs, I got a much better investment hiring professional audio engineers who took me and my kids to their studios and show all the wizardry that can be done.

6. If you think that's too expensive, consider something else. I am from Nashville originally. So many great recording studios there. However, young musicians who no longer have the professional producers from the older era can't afford the time. So they crowdfund it basically. Try something looking for something like that, it can be surprisingly affordable and you get to see how professionals record music in a live studio. I guarantee the equipment is better than anything you can buy personally if you're curious about the sonics. And you'll see how much DSP is done- sometimes on the fly between the engineers and the artists during the recording- and how amazing it is.

Have fun listening to music!

Youre great man! Amir and friends from this site saved me a ton of money!

 

[HuubFranssen]

Hi, I'm the person who sent the DAVE in for review. Just wanted to update what happened since then.

1. Even after the review, it sounded fine to me. I liked it. Not saying there's anything special about it, it worked fine. I couldn't hear the channel balance distortion Amir picked up in his review.

2. Sadly, the Topping DAC I had purchased to compare died a few months afterward, so couldn't use that for comparison. No complaints from my end, I mean it is relatively cheap so I'm not going to complain about quality control.

3. I ended up selling the DAVE and making a decent profit on it from the cost. There's no end of demand for that thing. Rather than point to this thread, I just waited a year and then put it on the market. Got offers very fast at the price I put it up for.

4. Anyway, thanks to Amir for all the education. My only suggestion to anyone reading this thread is just read the review and make up your own mind. That's his point, right? Argue if you enjoy it but I wouldn't if you get emotional about it like I do sometimes.

5. The one thing that is amazing I got from it is to learn to really work with DSP. Instead of spending lots of money on things like DACs, I got a much better investment hiring professional audio engineers who took me and my kids to their studios and show all the wizardry that can be done.

6. If you think that's too expensive, consider something else. I am from Nashville originally. So many great recording studios there. However, young musicians who no longer have the professional producers from the older era can't afford the time. So they crowdfund it basically. Try something looking for something like that, it can be surprisingly affordable and you get to see how professionals record music in a live studio. I guarantee the equipment is better than anything you can buy personally if you're curious about the sonics. And you'll see how much DSP is done- sometimes on the fly between the engineers and the artists during the recording- and how amazing it is.

Have fun listening to music!

Hi, I’m a person that likes to read ASR reviews and even sometimes act on it. My speakers are Neumann KH420’s because the review on this site was so good. And because I could purchase them relatively cheap in The Netherlands to be honest.

That meant that, to have a complete high end set, I only needed a stellar dac and a preamp. Well, almost all reviews nowadays are about dacs, mostly Chinese stuff, so that should be no problem.

Ofcourse I started with some Toppings, ending with a D90se dac and PRE90 plus extension box. First impression was great but after a few weeks I started to watch series on Netflix instead of listening to music. After realizing that I decided to sell the Topping stuff and try an RME ADI-2 FS dac. That did help, the RME seems to sounds a bit more natural (Amir will certainly admit that) and the featureset is enormous. But I wanted something more definitive, end game speakers costing 7500 euros deserve an end game streamer, dac and pre-amplifier. But hey, didn’t the Topping and RME, directly connected to my Roon server, have it all?

I started experimenting again. My first step was to buy the brand new Naim NSC 222 streamer because I love the Naim sound. That sound was great (I liked it more than the RME), the looks good and the upgrade possibilities endless. So that seemed a very good step for the future. But after 6 months, when the upgrade virus always comes, I realised that it would be very expensive. Especially for someone that reaches the age of 70 this month. The kids would not like the idea of an old father burning their future money. So I had to do something else but I didn’t have a clue what.

I went to my local hifi dealer and after hearing me he said: ‘Try a Chord Dave, that’s an endgame dac, maybe you like that’. And the small box with a dac of which I knew it was completely sabled down landed on my electric bike, I drove home, I connected everything and I never stopped listening since. My system is now a hybrid collection of ASR loved and ASR hated stuff.

So I’m someone who thinks that the reviews of ASR are very useful but I do not completely shut off the impressions of the much more complicated and very subjective but sometimes surprisingly real world.

 

[A Surfer]

You drank the Kool aid I'm sorry to say.

 

[A Surfer]

Subjective is indeed a real aspect of experience, but it has absolutely nothing to do with gathering evidence. I think you simply got trapped in the mindset of the more I spend the better the performance. Completely untrue, but hey, if you have the disposable income, you certainly disposed of it well.

 

[HuubFranssen]

Ofcourse. And with 2 posts you make a strong point!

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

Ofcourse. And with 2 posts you make a strong point!

Look Huub,
. You can't really say, "The kids would not like their old father burning their future money".
And then go out and precisely do that.

 

[HuubFranssen]

Look Huub,
. You can't really say, "The kids would not like their old father burning their future money".
And then go out and precisely do that.

I can perfectly mind my own business, thank you.

 

[MaxBuck]

I can perfectly mind my own business, thank you.

Whatever else is or isn't true in the audio world, one thing is undeniable: how people spend their money is entirely their own business.

My business doesn't include buying this DAC, though.

 

[DavidEdwinAston]

I can perfectly mind my own business, thank you.

Of course. And if you wish to contradict yourself in the same post. That is also your entitlement!

 

[pkane]

Ofcourse. And with 2 posts you make a strong point!

You've made a point that Chord stuff is hated by ASR, yet this is not the case. The chief designer of Chord products is made fun of for his claims about hearing things that are so far below the threshold that they may as well be at the level of a gnat farting in the Andromeda galaxy. We love Rob for this, we don't hate his products: he provides an endless source of entertainment as he keeps making ever greater claims about his ability to hear the inaudible.

His products are fairly well engineered (except, maybe, for their user interface, but that's mostly subjective), overpriced for what they do, and not very competitive with modern devices. Aside from that, enjoy your DAC if it brings you joy. It's your money.

 

[AudioSceptic]

Hi, I’m a person that likes to read ASR reviews and even sometimes act on it. My speakers are Neumann KH420’s because the review on this site was so good. And because I could purchase them relatively cheap in The Netherlands to be honest.

That meant that, to have a complete high end set, I only needed a stellar dac and a preamp. Well, almost all reviews nowadays are about dacs, mostly Chinese stuff, so that should be no problem.

Ofcourse I started with some Toppings, ending with a D90se dac and PRE90 plus extension box. First impression was great but after a few weeks I started to watch series on Netflix instead of listening to music. After realizing that I decided to sell the Topping stuff and try an RME ADI-2 FS dac. That did help, the RME seems to sounds a bit more natural (Amir will certainly admit that) and the featureset is enormous. But I wanted something more definitive, end game speakers costing 7500 euros deserve an end game streamer, dac and pre-amplifier. But hey, didn’t the Topping and RME, directly connected to my Roon server, have it all?

I started experimenting again. My first step was to buy the brand new Naim NSC 222 streamer because I love the Naim sound. That sound was great (I liked it more than the RME), the looks good and the upgrade possibilities endless. So that seemed a very good step for the future. But after 6 months, when the upgrade virus always comes, I realised that it would be very expensive. Especially for someone that reaches the age of 70 this month. The kids would not like the idea of an old father burning their future money. So I had to do something else but I didn’t have a clue what.

I went to my local hifi dealer and after hearing me he said: ‘Try a Chord Dave, that’s an endgame dac, maybe you like that’. And the small box with a dac of which I knew it was completely sabled down landed on my electric bike, I drove home, I connected everything and I never stopped listening since. My system is now a hybrid collection of ASR loved and ASR hated stuff.

So I’m someone who thinks that the reviews of ASR are very useful but I do not completely shut off the impressions of the much more complicated and very subjective but sometimes surprisingly real world.

The Naim is a combined streamer, DAC and preamp, isn't it? The Dave lacks a streamer element so what drives it?

(Of course, everyone will ask if you did any double-blind tests when judging SQ.)

 

[YSC]

Hi, I’m a person that likes to read ASR reviews and even sometimes act on it. My speakers are Neumann KH420’s because the review on this site was so good. And because I could purchase them relatively cheap in The Netherlands to be honest.

That meant that, to have a complete high end set, I only needed a stellar dac and a preamp. Well, almost all reviews nowadays are about dacs, mostly Chinese stuff, so that should be no problem.

Ofcourse I started with some Toppings, ending with a D90se dac and PRE90 plus extension box. First impression was great but after a few weeks I started to watch series on Netflix instead of listening to music. After realizing that I decided to sell the Topping stuff and try an RME ADI-2 FS dac. That did help, the RME seems to sounds a bit more natural (Amir will certainly admit that) and the featureset is enormous. But I wanted something more definitive, end game speakers costing 7500 euros deserve an end game streamer, dac and pre-amplifier. But hey, didn’t the Topping and RME, directly connected to my Roon server, have it all?

I started experimenting again. My first step was to buy the brand new Naim NSC 222 streamer because I love the Naim sound. That sound was great (I liked it more than the RME), the looks good and the upgrade possibilities endless. So that seemed a very good step for the future. But after 6 months, when the upgrade virus always comes, I realised that it would be very expensive. Especially for someone that reaches the age of 70 this month. The kids would not like the idea of an old father burning their future money. So I had to do something else but I didn’t have a clue what.

I went to my local hifi dealer and after hearing me he said: ‘Try a Chord Dave, that’s an endgame dac, maybe you like that’. And the small box with a dac of which I knew it was completely sabled down landed on my electric bike, I drove home, I connected everything and I never stopped listening since. My system is now a hybrid collection of ASR loved and ASR hated stuff.

So I’m someone who thinks that the reviews of ASR are very useful but I do not completely shut off the impressions of the much more complicated and very subjective but sometimes surprisingly real world.

well, considering that the absolute accuracy of the Dave is in the great category, just not as "perfect" as the Toppings objectively, so it's still a objectively excellent system anyway, and psychoacoustics is part of what we enjoys, so no harm when you can spare that cash to enjoy, personally I am doing similar but at a much lower cost, getting 8030Cs and 7040A with PC source so REW and EQAPO did the correction. then dac I willingly pay like $1200 for the Holoaudio Spring 2 dac, a R2R which objectively isn't as great, not actually cheap at any sense, but transparent enough with ~108 SINAD at worst, so far no complain at all, and the look did add in it's enjoyment, though in my mind I know it likely don't sound any different than a 1/5 priced topping, but who cares how I spend my own money on