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CD Player / Transport with Digital Out

MCH

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Here:


And in one zillion other posts here:


Other topping dacs, i am not sure which (E30??), have the same problem.
 

TheBatsEar

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Damn, i have the E30 and used all kinds of digital devices and CD players, never experienced that, luckily.
 

Angsty

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Mmmmmm... be careful. If with "one of the Chinese Hifi firms" you mean Topping, I must tell you that I have precisely this same Sony DVD and it doesn't work with my topping dac (d30pro).
Interesting. I have three CD players with coax digital out and three DACs and have never experienced any digital compatibility issues. One of the DACs is a Topping D70s.
 

rdenney

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Most of the current affordable models (affordable meaning less than a kilobuck and maybe less than two kilobucks--I haven't researched it) use a cheap Sanyo CD drive. These are actually CD players, meaning they are designed for real-time play at audio speeds, but they are still cheaply made to hit a low price point. The Audiolab is slot-loading so it's probably something repurposed from an automotive application (that's a bald guess). Most of the multi-format (DVD, BD, and CD) transports I've seen use computer drives, which are definitely price-point mechanisms and I think also have different operating expectations reflected in their designs.

Computer drives are designed differently, it seems to me, around a duty cycle of reading data as quickly as possible from the media, with no synchronization required and lots of buffered error-handling, but with only occasional use otherwise. Maybe BluRay drives are still not that, but I think DVD and CD drives surely are. Reading a lot of CD's into my cheap laptop has noticeably degraded the plastic tray mechanism--it has become more rattly and if I'm not careful it will toggle the electrical connection where the unit inserts into the laptop, which causes the BSOD.

I own a large number of CD's and even though I rip them onto my computer, most of the time at home I prefer to browse the shelf and use an actual CD playing device. I have two in the system at the moment--a Cambridge Audio CXC transport (into a Topping E30 DAC) and a Cambridge Audio Azur 640C. The CXC, which is a current product, uses the Sanyo drive. The 640C is older and uses a Sony KSS213 drive (still a price-point drive but more upmarket than the Sanyo). I have a number of others that are older and in various stages of repair, and work hard to sustain a playback capability. Sure, I rip my CD's, mostly to move them onto my phone and into my car. But the last thing I want to do while relaxing with music in the evening and sipping some Scotch is having a laptop in my lap. For some reason, tracking forums on my phone doesn't put across the "seems like work" feeling that the laptop does. Having a library (of music and books) is a sign of success in life for people of may age and background, I suppose, and I derive satisfaction from exercising it. At my work desk, even though it is in my home, music has to be separate from my work computer, on which such things would attract scrutiny.

All of my CD players work just find into DACs instead of using their internal DAC. But so far I've never been able to tell the difference, even with units going back to the 80's. I think the only CD player I own that lacks a digital out is my Naim CD5, currently and apparently indefinitely languishing in the fixit pile.

Rick "not interested in the own-nothing-rent-everything mode of modern living" Denney
 

MCH

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Hi, don't want to be alarmist. I don't think this is a problem of all topping dacs and definitely not all cd/dvd transports. I just happen to have that sony dvd and doesn't work with my d30pro. When i saw the picture of that particular dvd i felt my duty was to suggest the guy do his due diligence.
It is well documented here in ASR that some topping dacs have this spdif compatibility issue that topping themselves and johnyang have recognised.
Doesn't hurt to order, test, and return if necessary. Good luck :)
 

rdenney

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Here:


And in one zillion other posts here:


Other topping dacs, i am not sure which (E30??), have the same problem.
My E30 plays CD's from my Cambridge Audio CXC without issue, using the coaxial cable.

Rick "data point" Denney
 

jp4573

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I have one very similar to this one and I am satisfied.
91826_2241_draft.jpg
 

MacCali

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wonder how some OG gaming systems would function. Sega Saturn, PS1, PS2, XBOX, Dreamcast. I have them all o.o
 

Killingbeans

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Sold my Saturn and my Dreamcast a few years back. Only have cartridge based systems left.

I bet the old systems with optical drives work just fine as a transport if they have an s/pdif output.

I've seen that the Super Nintendo can be modified to have s/pdif output. Guess it can be a sort of cartridge transport :D
 

Angsty

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The guy in the truck ran it over?
Or there is a fault in either the CD player, or the Topping. Or cable.
I would not rule out a bad cable. A cable does not have to be expensive to be good. I use two different digital cables sourced from BJC.
 

MacCali

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Sold my Saturn and my Dreamcast a few years back. Only have cartridge based systems left.

I bet the old systems with optical drives work just fine as a transport if they have an s/pdif output.

I've seen that the Super Nintendo can be modified to have s/pdif output. Guess it can be a sort of cartridge transport :D
Haven’t seen my systems in years did any have spdif?
 

MattHooper

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I sure empathize with this. I hate, hate, HATE interacting with a laptop to listen to or stream music both in theory and practice. Admittedly when it comes to computers Im a desktop guy and really dislike laptops to begin with. But as you say it feels like “work” and very kludgey, like using a laptop as a TV remote. I’ve tried using friends laptops in their streaming systems and…yuck!

To each his own of course.
But the last thing I want to do while relaxing with music in the evening and sipping some Scotch is having a laptop in my lap. For some reason, tracking forums on my phone doesn't put across the "seems like work" feeling that the laptop does. Having a library (of music and books) is a sign of success in life for people of may age and background, I suppose, and I derive satisfaction from exercising it. At my work desk, even though it is in my home, music has to be separate from my work computer, on which such things would attract scrutiny.
 

rdenney

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I sure empathize with this. I hate, hate, HATE interacting with a laptop to listen to or stream music both in theory and practice. Admittedly when it comes to computers Im a desktop guy and really dislike laptops to begin with. But as you say it feels like “work” and very kludgey, like using a laptop as a TV remote. I’ve tried using friends laptops in their streaming systems and…yuck!

To each his own of course.
I'll say this, though. If I was 28 or 30, and grew up spending all my free time playing video games while wearing headphones, my perspective would very likely be different.

I'm glad I did not grow up that way, but maybe those who did are glad they didn't grow up the way I did.

For me, it's the same with printed music. I keep a lot of music on my ipad pro, and I enjoy using that especially in my quintet where we have hundreds of titles in our library. Carrying all that around is nuts--I did it for years. But at home, I can pull out, for example, my Peter's edition of the Bach Cello Suites, and it is printed to margin-filling size on 9x12 oversized pages. And some of the stuff I keep on the practice stand still has my school-age handwriting on it, along with some suggestions from my teachers. That keeps me grounded--I'm still trying to improve stuff I played in solo contest at school nearly 50 years ago.

Rick "observing the practices of younger extended family members" Denney
 

clearnfc

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Hey all,

As I just found - a CD Player without DAC is called CD Transport, which then has only digital outputs.

So, if taking in consideration lets say a Blu-ray player with only digital outputs e.g. Sony UBP-X700, will it provide the same quality as McIntosh MCT80 to my DAC?

If not, what I am missing here? :) Wondering what kind of benefit can be from 2000$ CD Transport in comparison to 200$, is this the snake oil case or there is something more to it?

CD transports are extremely rare these days. Literally all CD players double up as transport. They have a coaxial digital put which you can connect to a dac of your choice.

If you are asking why?? Well, some pple prefer separates. Although, i have to say its a very niche market.

Its like why pple still uses separate pre-amp and power amp these days? Or even why need a dac when avr can do everything?
 
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clearnfc

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I'm betting the guts of most CD players and transports come from a small number of common sources - laser assemblies, control chipsets, crystal clock ICs, drive motors etc. I can't see many small audio manufacturer having resources to make their own lasers and chipsets - unlike, say Sony.

The case may be fancy though, and the lunches for reviewers will be lavish....

Mechanical and laser assemblies are usually from sources like philips and sony. Some even uses a computer cd/dvdrom drive (you will find 5 1/4" drive if you open the casing).

However, whats critical is beyond the laser. The DSP and DAC is very important. Some folks here might have heard of the arcam ring-dac back then. I would say it was one of the things that made arcam famous.
 

Kijanki

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I would expect the same difference as between high quality expensive TT cart and plain inexpensive TT. Transport will likely have better quality drive and laser, very quiet power supply, vibration controlled chassis, very stable clock and the output capable of very fast transitions (few ns), that can reduce noise induced jitter, but requires careful characteristic impedance matching - not the best for average user. CDP's output swings slower (25-30ns), and has mass produced transport and electronics - not necessarily a bad thing, and much better buy for the money. I suspect that advances in jitter suppression in DACs and increased interest in servers and streaming reduced demand for expensive transports.
 

jsrtheta

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I'm betting the guts of most CD players and transports come from a small number of common sources - laser assemblies, control chipsets, crystal clock ICs, drive motors etc. I can't see many small audio manufacturer having resources to make their own lasers and chipsets - unlike, say Sony.

The case may be fancy though, and the lunches for reviewers will be lavish....
Almost every company that sold "high end" transports (e.g., Theta, PS Audio) went to the same sources for their transport mechanisms: Philips, Sony, Pioneer ("Stable Platter"), Sanyo (CEC), Teac ("VRDS"), and other big manufacturers. Virtually no one built their own transport mechanisms from the ground up. And it's the same today, albeit on a much smaller scale.
 
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